News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Fester]

5 hours ago, francoa said:

You cannot compare. The war before was “inevitable “, while this Ukraine war was fully avoidable…someone (usa ehm ehm), was pulling the strings for past years and finally got what they wanted

Another credible link required for that claim. Get on it.

[Fester]

2 hours ago, Poolie said:

As is all your rhetoric about a war leader from 75 years ago.

Butterfly seems to be the big Churchill fan.

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

So where are the 200+ sorties going? Can you see them? Probably not because you are right. They are not over the cities. I would have thought they would be tasked with harassing and neutralizing the  enemies forces & supplies instead of bombing civilians but that’s not my decision. It is in the hands of those inexperienced. disorganized, demoralized Russians who have almost run out of weapons and have no idea how to fight a war let alone win a campaign /s

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022/03/russian-jets-flying-200-sorties-day-firing-its-own-airspace-pentagon-says/363088/ 

If there are really 200 "sorties" they are not going far. From your own link it looks they are chicken-sheets :

 

Russian warplanes are flying about 20 times more missions than their Ukrainian counterparts, though many never enter Ukrainian territory and simply lob long-range missiles from inside Russian airspace, a U.S. official said Friday.

There are several reasons for the conservative use of airpower over Ukraine on both sides, the defense official said. First, Russia has surface-to-air missiles, or SAMs, in enough locations that it can shoot down Ukrainian jets in almost all parts of the country, and Ukrainians have held their jets back. “They are not using their fixed-wing fighter aircraft very much,” the official said of Ukraine. 

But the Russians are also being cautions, keeping their own aircraft outside of Ukraine and launching long-range missiles from fighter jets and bombers outside of Ukraine’s borders instead.

 

 

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Poolie said:

Questions, questions. Always questions.

Squaaaark! Splat!

[vlad]

1 hour ago, Poolie said:

And of course guns against spears, even if they were muskets. Maybe they should see if Vlad and Vlod want to regress?

Wrong Seagull some of them had guns from previous defeats they were not all spear chuckers. what were the odds? 4,500 against 139 mmm what's that against the odds 10/1 Grit and Well commanded it's what were good at Seagull I know you don't like that but facts are facts.

[Marble-eye]

14 hours ago, butterfly said:

Putin is the invader, he is in a different position, and very popular at the moment in Russia it seems, so definitely a stateman for Russians, and that's all that matters for Putin and Russia

When a leader like Putin is popular for his troops committing murder, rape, torture, genocide, destruction and war crimes this must surely say more about the Russian people than it does Putin. Shame on them I would say.

[vlad]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Ask the Pentagon about the 200+ sorties and their targets as they are the source of the 200+ sorties claim. I linked to the article about it already. 

I'm not interested in the Pentagon Haw Haw I asked you. I will ask it again is Mariupol and other city's being targeted by air sorties or Missiles fired from miles away don't deflect.

[Fanta]

23 minutes ago, Fester said:

Ukrainians have held their jets back. 

Are the “56 operational warplanes” all jets?

btw: you missed this paragraph that was smack bang in the middle of all the paragraphs you copied and pasted. You’re welcome.

”Russia's roughly 200 daily Ukraine-connected sorties compare to about five to 10 a day by Ukraine, which is down to about 56 operational warplanes, the official told reporters at the Pentagon.”

[Poolie]

19 minutes ago, vlad said:

Wrong Seagull some of them had guns from previous defeats they were not all spear chuckers. what were the odds? 4,500 against 139 mmm what's that against the odds 10/1 Grit and Well commanded it's what were good at Seagull I know you don't like that but facts are facts.

And you got that fact from.......?

[Fanta]

21 minutes ago, vlad said:

I'm not interested in the Pentagon Haw Haw I asked you. I will ask it again is Mariupol and other city's being targeted by air sorties or Missiles fired from miles away don't deflect.

Vladimir! I am shocked! You don’t trust the Pentagon or you don’t care what they say? You must swallow all of your MSM meal, even the bits you don’t like.
Your baiting question? I don’t know. Go ask the Russians or the Ukrainians how the cities are being bombed and why. I doubt you will get a straight answer out of either of them but it can’t hurt to try. Or can it? 

[Fester]

11 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Are the “56 operational warplanes” all jets?

btw: you missed this paragraph that was smack bang in the middle of all the paragraphs you copied and pasted. You’re welcome.

”Russia's roughly 200 daily Ukraine-connected sorties compare to about five to 10 a day by Ukraine, which is down to about 56 operational warplanes, the official told reporters at the Pentagon.”

I missed it out as not relevant to the conversation. I doubt Ukraine has as many as 56 left by now but that explains why they are holding what they in reserve as long as they can. Even with far superior numbers, it seems that the Russians are still wary of the UA superior pilots and tactics.  

[Fester]

32 minutes ago, vlad said:

Wrong Seagull some of them had guns from previous defeats they were not all spear chuckers. what were the odds? 4,500 against 139 mmm what's that against the odds 10/1 Grit and Well commanded it's what were good at Seagull I know you don't like that but facts are facts.

Seagull! LOL! 

[Fanta]

1 minute ago, Fester said:

I missed it out as not relevant to the conversation. I doubt Ukraine has as many as 56 left by now but that explains why they are holding what they in reserve as long as they can. Even with far superior numbers, it seems that the Russians are still wary of the UA superior pilots and tactics.  

The argument could be made that Russia has put their best pilots in those expensive jets who most likely have combat experience in Syria against the until recently untested in combat Ukrainian pilots. Combat experienced or not, you have to be a sharp cookie to fly a warplane and the movies make it look like more computer games than dogfights etc. I guess it’s fear of getting shot down by the Ukrainian Air Defenses plus why step into the backyard when you can just throw stuff over the fence. 

[Fester]

7 minutes ago, Fanta said:

The argument could be made that Russia has put their best pilots in those expensive jets who most likely have combat experience in Syria against the until recently untested in combat Ukrainian pilots. Combat experienced or not, you have to be a sharp cookie to fly a warplane and the movies make it look like more computer games than dogfights etc. I guess it’s fear of getting shot down by the Ukrainian Air Defenses plus why step into the backyard when you can just throw stuff over the fence. 

Not sure if Russia has put their best pilots out there or not, either way they don't seem to be very good. Maybe they've lost too many combat aircraft already? Maybe that's why the backyard is a favourite hangout? 

[Rookiescot]

Air losses look pretty even so far.

List of aircraft losses during the Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia

Mig 29's showing their age though.

[Politenessman]

9 hours ago, Fanta said:

On a military level Zelenskyy may not have a choice if facing total defeat. His own advisors would turn on him to save the country if defeat is inevitable and on the path  to an unconditional surrender. As you said “it all depends on what the other party is demanding.” imo, Zelenskky’s recent statements are just talk that he cannot follow through with IF Ukraine doesn’t win.  More power to him, everyone likes an underdog especially one that stands up to a bully and says F U 

It's very difficult to inflict total defeat on a force that is supplied from sanctuary states (unless Putin wants his defeat served fast and attacks Poland), also winning with troops who know they have been heavily defeated around Kyiv, are clearly unmotivated, have a logistic system that isn't up to the task, a communications system that is inadequate, and lack night vision gear, know that their substandard gear has been poorly maintained because their superiors have been selling parts and pocketing maint money, they also have an ally (Belarus) that is quietly backing away from active involvement in the war, know they are facing superior weapons and the enemy is getting more and better every day and know that their homelands economy is collapsing behind them.

[Poolie]

1 hour ago, Fester said:

Seagull! LOL! 

Yup, sleek, swift, skilled, accurate and vicious.

[Marble-eye]

Just now, Poolie said:

Yup, sleek, swift, skilled, accurate and vicious.

And steals chips!

[Fester]

And a pest, of course. 

[Poolie]

2 minutes ago, Fester said:

And a pest, of course. 

Yes, because they're sleek, swift, skilled, accurate and vicious.

However, miles off topic. Carry on. We were on a fascinating lesson about the Boer War if I remember rightly, courtesy of our Ukraine spokesperson. I've got a sock drawer to re-arrange.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, Poolie said:

Yes, because they're sleek, swift, skilled, accurate and vicious.

So are rats.

[Fester]

9 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Yes, because they're sleek, swift, skilled, accurate and vicious.

However, miles off topic. Carry on. We were on a fascinating lesson about the Boer War if I remember rightly, courtesy of our Ukraine spokesperson. I've got a sock drawer to re-arrange.

OK, see you later. Be sure to throw all the left ones out!

[Fanta]

15 minutes ago, Politenessman said:

they also have an ally (Belarus) that is quietly backing away from active involvement in the war

That Belarus is backing away from Russia seems doubtful. Any links?

Russia is Belarus #1 trading partner and they seemed to have been joined at the hip since at least 1994 and ruled by “like minded”“presidents”. Russian bases. troops, radar etc are stationed in Belarus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus–Russia_relations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Belarus

[Fester]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

That Belarus is backing away from Russia seems doubtful. Any links?

Russia is Belarus #1 trading partner and they seemed to have been joined at the hip since at least 1994 and ruled by “like minded”“presidents”. Russian bases. troops, radar etc are stationed in Belarus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus–Russia_relations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Belarus

I think they meant like-minded puppets?

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, Fanta said:

That Belarus is backing away from Russia seems doubtful. Any links?

Russia is Belarus #1 trading partner and they seemed to have been joined at the hip since at least 1994 and ruled by “like minded”“presidents”. Russian bases. troops, radar etc are stationed in Belarus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus–Russia_relations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Belarus

Belarus has also faced many sanctions. Its economy is in the trash can along with Russias.