News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

- I am saying that Zelenskyy’s latest statements

We are talking about a politician right? Because you seem to have a different idea about their statements. 

[Fanta]

23 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Believe me. If Czar Putin thinks he is winning there are no negotiations. Only surrender.

Most likely. Only a very major defeat can force Putin to negotiate and maybe not even then as he may just throw more stuff at Ukraine. Maybe if Putin achieves his stated goals, without defeating Ukraine, and then Winnie the Pooh has a chat with him saying “You got what you wanted. Enough is enough” it might give him food for thought. Because without China’s support Russia is looking very, very alone.

[Fanta]

11 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Waiting to see yet any meaningful Russian air strikes plus how they get on against  the western supplied latest air defence systems.

200+ sorties a day, minimal losses and no reports of meaningful air strikes against military targets could make us believe the Russians are only bombing undefended cities and civilians while leaving the manufacturing facilities, supply dumps, transportation routes, tank, artillery & troop formations alone. I doubt we are getting the full picture. 

[Fanta]

41 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

We are talking about a politician right? Because you seem to have a different idea about their statements. 

You know what happens when a politician walks backwards on a “promise”. It is invariably used against him by his national political opponents. As the war time leader of Ukraine Zelenskyy’s statements are a clear show of defiance and certainty, akin to Churchill’s “We shall never surrender” speech which was a massive morale booster for an England that was definitely not winning the war at that stage. 

[oldschooler]

28 minutes ago, Fanta said:

200+ sorties a day, minimal losses and no reports of meaningful air strikes against military targets could make us believe the Russians are only bombing undefended cities and civilians while leaving the manufacturing facilities, supply dumps, transportation routes, tank, artillery & troop formations alone. I doubt we are getting the full picture. 

Yes, an odd kind of war in many respects. Russian underperformance & Ukrainian resilience the main points.

[francoa]

On 4/17/2022 at 5:37 PM, Marble-eye said:

Strange how Putin apologists never mention he was a lawyer too, hang your heads in shame while genocide is being carried out right in front of your noses.

Biased in the extreme.

Go label your friends with stupid comments. Reality is that Russia will destroy Ukraine to last building standing. Seeing the reality is not putin apology. West and Ukraine could have ended long time ago, could have prevented this. USA wanted and planned this to happen, and dumb Zelensky is caring more about his populistic carrier in western media, rather than saving lives and the country itself. What is the point of fighting when there is nothing left lol  

 

You heard about Ukraine from news for the first time right? Ive been there 30x. It is and always waa the most corrupted country in europe, run by oligarchs, their GDP grew slower than totalitarian Belarus. They never cared about own people at all…and now they are pictured suddenly as beacon of freedom and democracy.

Pathetic. I hope you had such a strong feelings also against war crimes in Iraq, Libya, Syria..where USA killed dorectly 100k + civilians for no reason 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by francoa

[francoa]

31 minutes ago, Fanta said:

You know what happens when a politician walks backwards on a “promise”. It is invariably used against him by his national political opponents. As the war time leader of Ukraine Zelenskyy’s statements are a clear show of defiance and certainty, akin to Churchill’s “We shall never surrender” speech which was a massive morale booster for an England that was definitely not winning the war at that stage. 

You cannot compare. The war before was “inevitable “, while this Ukraine war was fully avoidable…someone (usa ehm ehm), was pulling the strings for past years and finally got what they wanted

[Marble-eye]

1 minute ago, francoa said:

Go label your friends with stupid comments. Reality is that Russia will destroy Ukraine to last building standing. Seeing the reality is not putin apology. West and Ukraine could have ended long time ago, could have prevented this. USA wanted and planned this to happen, and dumb Zelensky is caring more about his populistic carrier in western media, rather than saving lives and the country itself. What is the point of fighting when there is nothing left lol  

Could you reply in English please and not hatred. Oh and if you have any links to your Maelstrom of hostile posts that too would be appreciated.

BTW Putin has been giving awards to the brigade that committed all those atrocities committed in Bucha, must be a proud day for you eh.

Let's all join Francoa on his rantathon.

 

[Marble-eye]

The characteristics of Putin apologists are almost identical, the rage, the hatred and the venom of their rhetoric when they start their tirade of abuse.

This is a Russian media program just showing the bile that leaves their mouths whilst baying for blood because they lost their pride and joy flagship and has ended up joining Davy Jones Locker.

It's a case of we can kill you but you must not harm a hair on our bodies, such arrogance will not found anywhere else.

 

 

 

[Poolie]

10 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

What is needed here is a third person og great stature and trusted by both USA and Russia. Are there any left of that caliber?

No.

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

As the war time leader of Ukraine Zelenskyy’s statements are a clear show of defiance and certainty, akin to Churchill’s “We shall never surrender” speech which was a massive morale booster for an England that was definitely not winning the war at that stage. 

Which would lead one to believe he isn’t going to be cutting any deals. Probably not much of a risk since it’s not likely Putin will be offering any. 

[Fanta]

45 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

The characteristics of Putin apologists are almost identical, the rage, the hatred and the venom of their rhetoric when they start their tirade of abuse.

This is a Russian media program just showing the bile that leaves their mouths whilst baying for blood because they lost their pride and joy flagship and has ended up joining Davy Jones Locker.

It's a case of we can kill you but you must not harm a hair on our bodies, such arrogance will not found anywhere else.

They? I saw an old guy almost have an aneurysm while some tried not to look embarrassed and the woman deflected to being at war with “NATO infrastructure”.
That old guy reminds me of an old YouTube clip with an American “good old boy” whose solution to the possibility of upcoming war against Iraq was “bomb the God damn place into a God damn glass pit!” 
Passionate! And amusing provided you didn’t take him seriously.
The hosts must not be being told about overall operations in Ukraine as the railway system is already being attacked because it is being used for shipping weapons and troops. The same lines are also used to move civilians away from the war  :-( 
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-bomb-destroy-refugee-train-route-ukrainie-railway/ 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, francoa said:

Go label your friends with stupid comments. Reality is that Russia will destroy Ukraine to last building standing. Seeing the reality is not putin apology. West and Ukraine could have ended long time ago, could have prevented this. USA wanted and planned this to happen, and dumb Zelensky is caring more about his populistic carrier in western media, rather than saving lives and the country itself. What is the point of fighting when there is nothing left lol  

You heard about Ukraine from news for the first time right? Ive been there 30x. It is and always waa the most corrupted country in europe, run by oligarchs, their GDP grew slower than totalitarian Belarus. They never cared about own people at all…and now they are pictured suddenly as beacon of freedom and democracy.

Pathetic. I hope you had such a strong feelings also against war crimes in Iraq, Libya, Syria..where USA killed dorectly 100k + civilians for no reason 

Mixture of valid & invalid points actually & spoken from some ground experience it seems.

YES; US-NATO pushed all Putins “ feeling threatened” buttons since 2008 to provoke Putin falling into the Ukraine giant bear trap to be bled dry …outside NATO…… just follow the “ who benefits ?” trail & this becomes Obvious.

YES; Ukraine is Absolutely Corrupt ( Russian model in fact) below Zelensky except for election system recognized as (sufficiently) “free & fair” by West. This is one reason Ukraine will NEVER join EU or NATO. Putin knows this.

 YES; US / UK Destroyed those Evil Murderous Regimes AND then killed maybe 50,000 psychotic gunmen “insurgents” motivated by greed.

NO; US/UK did NOT target “Civilians” although perhaps 10,000 died by sheltering with or effective prisoners of said gunmen. Typical Arab Coward Tactic is to use their women & kids as human shields. UK would find other ways to get these guys. US Not.

NO; Russia will simply NOT be permitted to level Ukraine into the ground.West would simply stop buying gas & do whatever else it would take to bust Russia in one month once that objective became clear. BUT Russia No.3 war goal (already achieved) is to WRECK Ukraine so unattractive to EU or NATO.

(Russia 1st war goal,CONTROL,2nd goal,NEUTRALITY.Both Impossible Now).
 

 

 

[Marble-eye]

1 minute ago, Fanta said:

They? I saw an old guy almost have an aneurysm while some tried not to look embarrassed and the woman deflected to being at war with “NATO infrastructure”.
That old guy reminds me of an old YouTube clip with an American “good old boy” whose solution to the possibility of upcoming war against Iraq was “bomb the God damn place into a God damn glass pit!” 
Passionate! And amusing provided you didn’t take him seriously.
The hosts must not be being told about overall operations in Ukraine as the railway system is already being attacked because it is being used for shipping weapons and troops. The same lines are also used to move civilians away from the war  :-( 
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-bomb-destroy-refugee-train-route-ukrainie-railway/ 

Why am I not surprised Fanta that it reminds you of something else, it reminds me of the nasty comments coming from many of the Putin apologists on here, hence the reason for that clip. 

We have got to the stage now where posters are excusing Putin and his murderous thugs, it's always somebody else's fault and never the phychotic lunatic in the Kremlin, well that excuse is wearing very thin now as far as I'm concerned and most other posters I hope.

We are witnessing genocide on a grand scale and still many of the posters are still cheering Putin on. Sick, just sick.

What would you do if some sicko broke into your house and kills your family and destroys everything except for the goods he could send to his girlfriend, I may be wrong here but I doubt you would say to him 'come on, let's talk this through' I know I wouldn't!

 

[vlad]

13 hours ago, butterfly said:

well, Churchill almost did in Dunkerque when the entire British army was marooned there,

and France, Poland, Belgium, Netherland etc... certainly did surrender

Hitler was ruling over western Europe, and bombed London into almost oblivion

if it wasn't for his Russia war mistake, maybe we would all be speaking German now, including the Brits 

Just an opinion from over 70 years ago Butterfly Hitler bombed London and other major cities but were never bombed nearly into oblivion heavy damage yes but not enough to say flattened and Hitler failed to cross the channel so that's a pointless line.

[Fanta]

38 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Why am I not surprised Fanta that it reminds you of something else, it reminds me of the nasty comments coming from many of the Putin apologists on here, hence the reason for that clip. 

We have got to the stage now where posters are excusing Putin and his murderous thugs, it's always somebody else's fault and never the phychotic lunatic in the Kremlin, well that excuse is wearing very thin now as far as I'm concerned and most other posters I hope.

We are witnessing genocide on a grand scale and still many of the posters are still cheering Putin on. Sick, just sick.

What would you do if some sicko broke into your house and kills your family and destroys everything except for the goods he could send to his girlfriend, I may be wrong here but I doubt you would say to him 'come on, let's talk this through' I know I wouldn't!

Perhaps you cannot read the text though your veil of tears so you guess and, because I am not handing you tissues, you presume the worst. By all means, sob on dude but don’t expect me to join your endless howls of outrage and tiring weepfest. I’ve stated my objection to this war enough times already. I described a video I saw of one old American guy flipping out about Iraq as quite similar to one old Russian guy flipping about about Ukraine. Both people were over the top and not representative of their fellow citizens despite your attempt to portray ”them” as rage & hate filled, blood thirsty apologists spouting rhetoric and spewing bile and other nonsense. Go get a hug or shake it off and come back when you’ve composed yourself.

[Poolie]

3 minutes ago, vlad said:

Just an opinion from over 70 years ago Butterfly Hitler bombed London and other major cities but were never bombed nearly into oblivion heavy damage yes but not enough to say flattened and Hitler failed to cross the channel so that's a pointless line.

As is all your rhetoric about a war leader from 75 years ago.

[Marble-eye]

10 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Perhaps you cannot read the text though your veil of tears so you guess and, because I am not handing you tissues, you presume the worst. By all means, sob on dude but don’t expect me to join your endless howls of outrage and tiring weepfest. I’ve stated my objection to this war enough times already. I described a video I saw of one old American guy flipping out about Iraq as quite similar to one old Russian guy flipping about about Ukraine. Both people were over the top and not representative of their fellow citizens despite your attempt to portray ”them” as rage & hate filled, blood thirsty apologists spouting rhetoric and spewing bile and other nonsense. Go get a hug or shake it off and come back when you’ve composed yourself.

No veil of tears here and I don't expect you to do anything apart from your insults that are becoming more and more common.

You appease Putins thugs if you want to, I don't want to, nor will I ever.

Would you believe anything Putin said in any talks what-so-ever, if the answer to that is an emphatic 'yes' you are more naive than I first thought.

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, francoa said:

You cannot compare. The war before was “inevitable “, while this Ukraine war was fully avoidable…someone (usa ehm ehm), was pulling the strings for past years and finally got what they wanted

“ this” war started in 2014 and was always inevitable from Putins unreasonable illogical stance of “ being threatened “ by invasion by defensive NATO when Russia has nuclear weapons !

[vlad]

5 hours ago, Politenessman said:

Lets see - the Brits escaped Dunkirk because they didn't surrender, and in spite of a major defeat, went on to win the war.

Hitler wasn't busy on the Russian front at that time, he turned to the Russian front because invading Britain was not possible.

Hitler gave up on invading Britain long before the US came into the war.

As butterfly likes to take a shot at us Brits and Churchill let me remind him of probably the best speech ever given in History  We will fight them on the beaches, we will fight them in the fields in the air and on the sea, we will NEVER surrender, who defeated the Luftwaffe and won the skies over England Butterfly, who defeated the U-BOAT threat to starve us out Butterfly and won the Battle of the Atlantic, who kicked Germany out of North Africa? who kicked the Argentines off the Falklands do you see a patten here butterfly.

[Fanta]

3 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

No veil of tears here and I don't expect you to do anything apart from your insults that are becoming more and more common

My apologies. I am fed up with the emotional outbursts and personal attacks in response to logic so I respond in kind. 

[Marble-eye]

Just now, Fanta said:

My apologies. I am fed up with the emotional outbursts and personal attacks in response to logic so I respond in kind. 

You appear to be getting more up tight the more the Russians thugs embarrass themselves, but don't worry I totally understand.

[vlad]

4 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Can we perhaps drop these “peace” ( surrender) fantasies and discuss the reality of a war being fought. US long range artillery is about to be engaged against Russian forces in Donbass ? 

Our NATO hating Scandavian won't like that oldschooler these Howitzers are the most up to date there is pinpointing and smashing anything from miles away a Russian T-35 will be vaporized if 1 got hit by one of these shells and could easily pinpoint a convoy from an observer ie a SAS observer and once the co-ordinates are radioed in it will be good night Vienna for that column. What the Putin appesers on here don't realize is that the Ukrainian forces are being given far more superior kit than what Russians have. If they get within range of all the Artillery and heavy armor massing in the Dombas the Ukrainian military now has the correct equipment to take them out.

[vlad]

4 hours ago, Fanta said:

200+ sorties a day, minimal losses and no reports of meaningful air strikes against military targets could make us believe the Russians are only bombing undefended cities and civilians while leaving the manufacturing facilities, supply dumps, transportation routes, tank, artillery & troop formations alone. I doubt we are getting the full picture. 

I don't see many Attack helicopters buzzing around the major cities either Fanta or aircraft. There just lobbing missiles in hitting civvy targets mostly. Even you can see this.

[oldschooler]

41 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Perhaps you cannot read the text though your veil of tears so you guess and, because I am not handing you tissues, you presume the worst. By all means, sob on dude but don’t expect me to join your endless howls of outrage and tiring weepfest. I’ve stated my objection to this war enough times already. I described a video I saw of one old American guy flipping out about Iraq as quite similar to one old Russian guy flipping about about Ukraine. Both people were over the top and not representative of their fellow citizens despite your attempt to portray ”them” as rage & hate filled, blood thirsty apologists spouting rhetoric and spewing bile and other nonsense. Go get a hug or shake it off and come back when you’ve composed yourself.

Again,No Comparison between West removing Evil Murderous Regimes ( Iraq/ Libya/ Serbia) and Ukraine. None.

West have/ are defending Free Nations ( S.Vietnam/ S. Korea, Directly ; and Ukraine; Indirectly) against Monstrous Tyrannical Aggression. That’s what Free West Does, unlike the power- crazed tyrants Putin & Xi.