News Forum - Thailand to welcome Russian travellers back this Saturday, really?@!, Ukraine Discussion

[Noble_Design]

2 minutes ago, Alavan said:

That may be the exchange rate in Russia, but I wonder what the rate will be outside Russia, that is if anybody will accept it.
I remember in the sixties and seventies one Ruble was one $ in Russia, bur outside you got 4 or 5 Ruble for a dollar.

I checked at Superrich website and the rate didn't differ much:

 

Not sure whether they actually accept to exchange ruble to baht but since they are still displaying and updating the rates daily instead of removing them or displaying "Not Accepted" then that means the ruble can still be exchanged no?

[HighSo]

1 hour ago, Rob2010 said:

HighSo - The two lists of friendly and unfriendly countries could just as easy read intimidating and nevermind. Truly blessed that I am smart enough to realize that not everything that shines is gold and that the Western World is responsible for most wars and other problems.

Like freedom and democracy..i know they are real problems for stupid Thai HiSo's

„Freedom“ and „Democracy“

 

In which countries in the world, maybe beside Switzerland with their direct democracy, do you see any of this?

What I can see is a powerful Elite that gives people the illusion of decision-making by allowing them to put a cross on a piece of paper every few years. 
While in reality most politicians can then be bought, or were paid before already, to decide how the powerful Elite wishes.

There are dozen examples of this being used in like every „democratic“ country in the world.

It seems that you might be a relatively simple-minded guy, who does not dare to have a look behind the curtains of the world stage.

Edited April 7, 2022 by HighSo

[MrNovax]

3 hours ago, Janneman said:

Yes, most people would not like to spend their holidays amidst Russian 'soldiers' recovering from their hardships. Such as raping and murdering civilians.

They enjoy their holidays next to US soldiers who do much of the same.  But back to the point, we are talking about Russian civilians not Russian military or even Russian leaders.  

[MrNovax]

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

So what do you propose in order to get the message in to Putins thick skull that his behaviour is unacceptable? Would you advocate an all out war which would kill millions of innocent people? Or would you advocate we all pretend nothing is happening and carry on as normal with Russia? Perhaps there’s an alternative  way you can think of? 

No, i dont advocate war.  But the sanctions and restrictions dont affect Putin, they affect the people living in Russia.  Most of whom have nothing to do with this war and id guess the majority also dont want the war any more than you or I.  do you thing Putin or his general will be arriving in Thailand anytime soon?  all these restrictions do is punish innocent people trying to live their lives.  I say if a person from Russia wants to come to Thailand then come on in.  

The solution is far too complex and wayyy off toic which gets me in trouble.  Feel free to ping me in another thread where that would be on topic.  

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

3 hours ago, Noble_Design said:

This announcement came just when the Ruble almost goes back to pre-war & pre-sanction rates. Coincidence?

A lot of Russian Oil and Gas must have been sold over the last two weeks. Lots of shipping going through the Turkish Straights, especially oil tankers. And for those that cry about links …. Look at the red traffic …. Oil Tankers.

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:26.1/centery:45.0/zoom:5 
 

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, HighSo said:

Truly blessed that I am smart enough to realize that not everything that shines is gold and that the Western World is responsible for most wars and other problems.

Like world war 2 when Japan attacked Pearl Harbour. Or Saddam invaded Kuwait. Or terrorist training camps in Afghanistan or Gaddafi sponsoring the IRA. Or maybe Syria picking fights with the Israelis. Maybe you mean the Saudis attacking Yemen. Possibly you mean the Rwandan genocide or possibly the Darfur conflict. Maybe it’s the Nigerian civil war and Boko Haram. Is that what you mean? Because I don’t see why you think these are the fault of the Western World. 

[Soidog]

10 minutes ago, MrNovax said:

No, i dont advocate war.  But the sanctions and restrictions dont affect Putin, they affect the people living in Russia.  Most of whom have nothing to do with this war and id guess the majority also dont want the war any more than you or I.  do you thing Putin or his general will be arriving in Thailand anytime soon?  all these restrictions do is punish innocent people trying to live their lives.  I say if a person from Russia wants to come to Thailand then come on in.  

The solution is far too complex and wayyy off toic which gets me in trouble.  Feel free to ping me in another thread where that would be on topic.  

The point of the sanctions are to make the every day Russians realise what a scum bag leader THEY voted for. Maybe when their life heads back to the Cold War days they may decide to vote differently. I’ve said it many times. The Russian people are not evil, only leaders are evil. But make no mistake, Putin isn’t the one driving the tanks, shooting the missiles or firing the guns. That’s everyday Russian soldiers. So I’m sorry to be harsh on the everyday Russian. But this is their shit to sort out and the world needs to send a very clear message to them and Putin. What is delaying that message getting through is other like minded countries such as China, Myanmar and now we can add Thailand to the list.  

[Vigo]

For PR purpose only to distract from the documented  barbaric war crimes in Ukraine.Russia is desperate to show that ti has support in the world. The only Russians who can travel now are those with access to FX, and in Russia that would suggest government personnel or the gangster class.  Thailand plays with fire if it  is seen to collaborate with Russians. This is not the the era when Pol Pot's regime could survive in part because of Thailand co-operation. Times have changed.

3 hours ago, MrNovax said:

Good for Thailand!  The average Russian citizen has nothing to do with Putin's war and more counties should realize that all these dumb restrictions, sanctions, and other idiotic ideas hurt innocent people who have nothing to do with all this foolishness.  Hopefully this will allow people who want to leave Russia to get out and those trapped outside of Russia and removed from their family's to get back to them.  

The "average" Russian most certainly has everything to do with the  invasion of Ukraine and the barbaric acts. Support for this war is high amongst the Russian population. Do not under estimate the  nationalism of Russians and their collective chip on the shoulder.

10 minutes ago, MrNovax said:

They enjoy their holidays next to US soldiers who do much of the same.  But back to the point, we are talking about Russian civilians not Russian military or even Russian leaders.  

Nonsense. US soldiers are not engaged in war crimes in the Ukraine. In the past 40+ years, when there has been an allegation of inappropriate conduct in US and other western  military, the response has reasonable, not like Russian response of lies. It is reprehensible to dismiss the mass murder of non combatants in the Ukraine as you have. Putin laid out his justification for the invasion of the Ukraine in a 20 page white paper which was then endorsed by Duma. The Russian population elects the Duma members. 

If Thailand welcomes Russian tourists it will cost Thailand since the local Thais won't accept Russian currency and if the reliance is on western curences. then Thailand's banking system will be open to sanctions.

[Vigo]

11 minutes ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

A lot of Russian Oil and Gas must have been sold over the last two weeks. Lots of shipping going through the Turkish Straights, especially oil tankers. And for those that cry about links …. Look at the red traffic …. Oil Tankers.

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:26.1/centery:45.0/zoom:5 
 

India, Pakistan and China are taking as much of the  oil as they can. Discounted prices.

[Alavan]

22 minutes ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

A lot of Russian Oil and Gas must have been sold over the last two weeks. Lots of shipping going through the Turkish Straights, especially oil tankers. And for those that cry about links …. Look at the red traffic …. Oil Tankers.

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:26.1/centery:45.0/zoom:5 
 

But where are those tankers comming from. Not only Russia has oil terminals in the black sea. And Romania and Kazachstan are also oil producers.

[HighSo]

33 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Like world war 2 when Japan attacked Pearl Harbour. Or Saddam invaded Kuwait. Or terrorist training camps in Afghanistan or Gaddafi sponsoring the IRA. Or maybe Syria picking fights with the Israelis. Maybe you mean the Saudis attacking Yemen. Possibly you mean the Rwandan genocide or possibly the Darfur conflict. Maybe it’s the Nigerian civil war and Boko Haram. Is that what you mean? Because I don’t see why you think these are the fault of the Western World. 

Lol, then you really need to research about the involvement of western governments and central intelligence agencies in literally all of the conflicts you mentioned.

 

[Soidog]

27 minutes ago, HighSo said:

Lol, then you really need to research about the involvement of western governments and central intelligence agencies in literally all of the conflicts you mentioned.

Thanks. I already have and these are not conflicts caused by western governments   The problem is that the advanced countries which are mainly western governments always have some link to other countries. We sell them technology. They use the inventions of the West and buy military hardware from the West. The West is far more transparent about its involvements. It’s liberal, open and investigative media means you hear the details of Western involvements. What you will never see is the involvement of countries like China and Russia. This is why you appear to have a distorted view of the Wests involvement in such conflicts.  

[Noble_Design]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

What is delaying that message getting through is other like minded countries such as China, Myanmar and now we can add Thailand to the list.  

You might want to take Myanmar out and expand that list by a whole lot more:

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

1 hour ago, Alavan said:

But where are those tankers comming from. Not only Russia has oil terminals in the black sea. And Romania and Kazachstan are also oil producers.

Click on the tankers it tells you the Russian port they departed from.

[Dmitrii]

1 hour ago, Vigo said:

For PR purpose only to distract from the documented  barbaric war crimes in Ukraine.Russia is desperate to show that ti has support in the world. The only Russians who can travel now are those with access to FX, and in Russia that would suggest government personnel or the gangster class.  Thailand plays with fire if it  is seen to collaborate with Russians. This is not the the era when Pol Pot's regime could survive in part because of Thailand co-operation. Times have changed.

The "average" Russian most certainly has everything to do with the  invasion of Ukraine and the barbaric acts. Support for this war is high amongst the Russian population. Do not under estimate the  nationalism of Russians and their collective chip on the shoulder.

Nonsense. US soldiers are not engaged in war crimes in the Ukraine. In the past 40+ years, when there has been an allegation of inappropriate conduct in US and other western  military, the response has reasonable, not like Russian response of lies. It is reprehensible to dismiss the mass murder of non combatants in the Ukraine as you have. Putin laid out his justification for the invasion of the Ukraine in a 20 page white paper which was then endorsed by Duma. The Russian population elects the Duma members. 

If Thailand welcomes Russian tourists it will cost Thailand since the local Thais won't accept Russian currency and if the reliance is on western curences. then Thailand's banking system will be open to sanctions.

Though I agree with your point of view, I just wanted to add that Thailand does not risk its banking system.

Russians will not have access to their VISA/Mastercard. Therefore, they will bring USD or EUR cash and exchange it locally. No risk for Thailand ;)

[Fester]

4 hours ago, Dmitrii said:

And how are the Russian tourists supposed to get to Thailand?

As far as I know, the Boeing and Airbus airplanes used by Russian airlines should be arrested in the first airport outside of Russia.

There are tens, not even hundreds, of aircrafts produced by Russia (IL and Sukhoi SuperJet) and I am not even sure that Sukhoi can make it to Thailand (it is a middle range plane).

So, there is only one viable option for Russians: fly to Turkey on their IL and Sukhoi, connect to any other airline and fly to BKK.

It is a long and costly journey. I doubt that many Russians would do it.

Turkish Airlines and Emirates still flying to Moscow. Easy.

[Alavan]

3 hours ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

Click on the tankers it tells you the Russian port they departed from.

Won’t tell you much as the CPC pipeline from Kazachstan ends in the port of Novorossiysk. And Kazachstan can still export oil, even through Russian ports. Besides, even EU does not put an embargo on Russian oil for the moment.

AIS shows name of vessels, caracteristics, course speed, heading and ports of departure and destination.

It doesn’t show the ship’s manifest and Bill of Lading and Charter Party.

[Fundok]

9 hours ago, MrNovax said:

Good for Thailand!  The average Russian citizen has nothing to do with Putin's war and more counties should realize that all these dumb restrictions, sanctions, and other idiotic ideas hurt innocent people who have nothing to do with all this foolishness.  Hopefully this will allow people who want to leave Russia to get out and those trapped outside of Russia and removed from their family's to get back to them.  

The majority of Russians endorse this war, so in my eyes they also have blood on their hands.

[Convert54]

8 hours ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

A lot of Russian Oil and Gas must have been sold over the last two weeks. Lots of shipping going through the Turkish Straights, especially oil tankers. And for those that cry about links …. Look at the red traffic …. Oil Tankers.

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:26.1/centery:45.0/zoom:5 
 

Russia's daily energy revenues are approx $1 billion and were rising. Western assistance to Zelenskyy in total money terms is about $1 billion. Canada has "generously" loaned Ukraine approx $400 million as well as military supplies.

 

[Artemis080]

2 hours ago, Fundok said:

The majority of Russians endorse this war, so in my eyes they also have blood on their hands.

Sadly this is true. The disinformation in Russia's increasingly walled garden of soviet era media control means most Russians support the war. TV is still where most of them get their news. Yesterday, according to state media, it was Russia that called the UN meeting regarding human rights abuses by Ukrainian Nazis.

Meanwhile, the mobile crematoriums keep burning the bodies and evidence—sickening stuff.

I doubt any flights will magic themselves up in the short term, though. It's all just Russian propaganda calling countries friendly or unfriendly. All my passports are from unfriendly countries. I'll live.

Or maybe in the medium term, Thailand will double down on Russian and Chinese tourists and doesn't worry about the west, becoming the playground for Asia.

[Soidog]

8 hours ago, Noble_Design said:

You might want to take Myanmar out and expand that list by a whole lot more:

Yes, that’s the recent vote on suspending Russia from the human rights council. I’m amazed Myanmar even get a vote. Just look at the shower of sh*t governments that voted against or abstained. I think abstentions are a total cop out. You either think Russia should be allowed to be an active member or you don’t. Which is it? 

[Soidog]

Maybe it’s a good idea if Russians can travel. They may get an opportunity to hear other news agencies (not that Thailand has a free and open media). They may also get a shock when walking along beach road and come across people who aren’t too chuffed with what Russia is doing in Ukraine. 

[Noble_Design]

35 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yes, that’s the recent vote on suspending Russia from the human rights council. I’m amazed Myanmar even get a vote. Just look at the shower of sh*t governments that voted against or abstained. I think abstentions are a total cop out. You either think Russia should be allowed to be an active member or you don’t. Which is it? 

Countries that abstain do not necessarily support Russia, they may abstain from condemning them but at the same time they stop all business dealings with them. To me that is a much better action than condemning Russia but still doing business with them e.g. EU continuing to buy oil and gas and even Japan one of the harshest critics of the Kremlin from the east is still continuing their projects with Russia:

https://www.news18.com/news/world/japan-to-continue-its-energy-projects-in-russia-time-for-biden-to-call-japan-shaky-4934798.html

One thing is for sure and this worries me is that the support for Ukraine is starting to wane after just 1 - 2 months in to this war and that's a shame. Compare the previous vote with the latest one and you can see that a lot of countries are starting to shift sides:

[Fanta]

40 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yes, that’s the recent vote on suspending Russia from the human rights council. I’m amazed Myanmar even get a vote. Just look at the shower of sh*t governments that voted against or abstained. I think abstentions are a total cop out. You either think Russia should be allowed to be an active member or you don’t. Which is it? 

Abstentions, in any vote, can also be seen as a refusal to be dragged into an issue. Your demand for a “Yes or No” answer is based on absolutes and politics doesn’t work that way. It creates a mindset of “Us vs Them” as you have clearly shown here. 
I hope the Russians pour back in and pump some money into the country. Tourists are tourists, they are not a country’s appointed representatives .

[Dialemco]

Looks like Russian propaganda but if there are actually any flights to Thailand using leased aircraft of Boeing/Airbus and these are not seized by Thai Authorities this will probably result in secondary sanctions being imposed on Thailand