News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES: Russia relents, Ukraine offers concessions at Turkey peace talks; Amnesty decries Russian war crimes

[Thaiger]

As the Russian invasion of Ukraine continues into its second month, here’s the latest deadlines… • With Russian and Ukrainian forces at a military stalemate in Ukraine, the door has opened for a diplomatic resolution to end the war. • At Tuesday’s peace talks in Istanbul, Ukrainian negotiators offered a pledge of neutrality and no NATO membership, in exchange for a framework that would allow eight other countries to act as security guarantors, including Poland, Turkey and Israel. The guarantees would be legally binding and allow those countries to intervene if Ukraine is ever attacked in the future. • The […]

The story UKRAINE UPDATES: Russia relents, Ukraine offers concessions at Turkey peace talks; Amnesty decries Russian war crimes as seen on Thaiger News.

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[CamPat]

Buddhist teaching tell us that Nothing is forever. Hopefully we will see an end to the Ukraine Conflict soon. While i have my doubts we may see a completely different enviroment after the US Election in 2024. That will possibly put everything of this conflict upside down over night.

NATO would rethink U.S. relationship if Trump wins in 2024

https://www.yahoo.com/news/romney-nato-would-rethink-us-relationship-if-trump-wins-in-2024-204421714.html

While Biden was preaching a change from relentless wars to relentless diplomacy during his first speech at the UN Assembly what we now experience is a Proxy War with Europe in the Frontline and the US reaping in the Weapon Orders. That is what we've seen with Trump when he demonstrated his Saudi Orders for US Weapons next to murderous Mohammed bin Salman. The future will tell us what the "Future War with China - North Korea" might look like.

[Fanta]

I wonder if Amnesty International will also investigate the alleged kneecapping of Russian soldiers by Ukrainians? BBC covered it in their Fact Check so I wonder why this hasn’t been mentioned. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/28/ukraine-russia-pow-video/

[Poolie]

  On 3/30/2022 at 9:11 AM, Fanta said:

I wonder if Amnesty International will also investigate the alleged kneecapping of Russian soldiers by Ukrainians? BBC covered it in their Fact Check so I wonder why this hasn’t been mentioned. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/28/ukraine-russia-pow-video/

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I've seen that. Shocking, considering they're untrained, ill-equipped conscripts, the Russians.

[Stardust]

  On 3/30/2022 at 9:11 AM, Fanta said:

I wonder if Amnesty International will also investigate the alleged kneecapping of Russian soldiers by Ukrainians? BBC covered it in their Fact Check so I wonder why this hasn’t been mentioned. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/28/ukraine-russia-pow-video/

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Already debunked and yes the Putin fake news factories are working hard like you to flood the net with it

And for sure if something is approved it will be documented as war crimes. But still all approved war crimes are from the Russian Army!

[Marble-eye]

  On 3/30/2022 at 10:31 AM, Stardust said:

Already debunked and yes the Putin fake news factories are working hard like you to flood the net with it

And for sure if something is approved it will be documented as war crimes. But still all approved war crimes are from the Russian Army!

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And yet I don't hear any condemnation from the usual suspects about the amount of women and children being massacred by Putins Russian war machine.

[Rookiescot]

  On 3/30/2022 at 9:11 AM, Fanta said:

I wonder if Amnesty International will also investigate the alleged kneecapping of Russian soldiers by Ukrainians? BBC covered it in their Fact Check so I wonder why this hasn’t been mentioned. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/28/ukraine-russia-pow-video/

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Its fake.

Where is the recoil on the rifle used to shoot the three guys? The guy firing the rifle doesn't even have it in his shoulder. He's holding it with one hand and there is no recoil.

[Stardust]

  On 3/30/2022 at 10:41 AM, Marble-eye said:

And yet I don't hear any condemnation from the usual suspects about the amount of women and children being massacred by Putins Russian war machine.

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Yes you never hear something of these suspects when woman get massacred and girls get raped

[Fanta]

  On 3/30/2022 at 10:31 AM, Stardust said:

Already debunked 

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BBC fact check didn’t debunk it. Your guy wearing the Ukraine flag in the video is not as credible as the BBC, for me anyway. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Fanta

[Stardust]

  On 3/30/2022 at 10:44 AM, Rookiescot said:

Its fake.

Where is the recoil on the rifle used to shoot the three guys? The guy firing the rifle doesn't even have it in his shoulder. He's holding it with one hand and there is no recoil.

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<content deleted as no LINK provided to a verified source>

Edited March 30, 2022 by KaptainRob
Refer Forum Guidelines

[Chatogaster]

  On 3/30/2022 at 10:44 AM, Rookiescot said:

Its fake.

Where is the recoil on the rifle used to shoot the three guys? The guy firing the rifle doesn't even have it in his shoulder. He's holding it with one hand and there is no recoil.

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Given the quality of the recording, lack of noticeable recoil isn't enough to deem it fake (AK-74's 5.45mm has very little recoil).

It could be fake (I don't know), but I do know that when numerous individuals are pitted against each other there are bound to be dominating bastards, so it could be true.

I don't like that, but it's part of the reality of war (and human behavior in general) that there will be excesses (on both/all sides).

Whether or not the clip (hard to find BTW) is real doesn't take anything away from the fact that Putin should not have invaded & ignited a war.

[Rookiescot]

  On 3/30/2022 at 11:34 AM, Chatogaster said:

Given the quality of the recording, lack of noticeable recoil isn't enough to deem it fake (AK-74's 5.45mm has very little recoil).

It could be fake (I don't know), but I do know that when numerous individuals are pitted against each other there are bound to be dominating bastards, so it could be true.

I don't like that, but it's part of the reality of war (and human behavior in general) that there will be excesses (on both/all sides).

Whether or not the clip (hard to find BTW) is real doesn't take anything away from the fact that Putin should not have invaded & ignited a war.

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Of course there is brutality on both sides. And where it is found there should be consequences. 

However even if you believe the quality is too poor to give a judgement how is there no-one screaming?

There are major arteries in the legs and these guys didnt appear to be very precise over where they shot someone. So where is all the blood?

Its fake mate.

[Smithydog]

Perhaps one of the military trained can answer a question or two for me.

If rubber bullets were used, would there be any recoil? Is the rifle used one that can even use rubber bullets?

Just curious. Not suggesting anything.

[Rookiescot]

  On 3/30/2022 at 12:01 PM, Smithydog said:

Perhaps one of the military trained can answer a question or two for me.

If rubber bullets were used, would there be any recoil? Is the rifle used one that can even use rubber bullets?

Just curious. Not suggesting anything.

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No. Batton rounds are fired from a different weapon. You can get "less lethal" rounds for something like a shotgun. 

[Convert54]

While such accusation  may be true  it is also as possible that "recorded" hearsay events are not as  described. 

What is important  above all is that such accusation on both side be  noted and in hopefully the atmosphere of  reconcilliated political rationale  truth is at least established if possible.

Only  then can  humanity once again declare  some small but pathetic false acclaim to demonstrable "animal " sophistication".

[Stardust]

  On 3/30/2022 at 10:55 AM, Stardust said:

<content deleted as no LINK provided to a verified source>

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It was according to the former link what I wrote about the hacked order but here with the source link again

[KaptainRob]

  On 3/30/2022 at 12:32 PM, Stardust said:

It was according to the former link what I wrote about the hacked order but here with the source link again

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That looks 100% staged to debunk a debunking  .... sorry SD, it is not a reliable source.

[Rookiescot]

  On 3/30/2022 at 12:55 PM, KaptainRob said:

That looks 100% staged to debunk a debunking  .... sorry SD, it is not a reliable source.

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He does make some valid points in that video though Rob.

Personally I believe the footage of people being shot in the legs to be fake. That does not mean atrocities are not being carried out by both sides. This is a war after all and mistreatment of opponents will happen. It is a sad inevitability. Professional armies are less likely to do it but even there it happens. 

But there are too many inconsistences in that video to make me believe its real. People who have been shot react in different ways but if you have half a dozen together I would recon 50% of them will be vocal about it. Especially in the seconds before and after being wounded.

We are led to believe the three guys dragged out the car were not protesting their innocence and begging not to be shot?

[KaptainRob]

  On 3/30/2022 at 1:18 PM, Rookiescot said:

He does make some valid points in that video though Rob.

Personally I believe the footage of people being shot in the legs to be fake. That does not mean atrocities are not being carried out by both sides. This is a war after all and mistreatment of opponents will happen. It is a sad inevitability. Professional armies are less likely to do it but even there it happens. 

But there are too many inconsistences in that video to make me believe its real. People who have been shot react in different ways but if you have half a dozen together I would recon 50% of them will be vocal about it. Especially in the seconds before and after being wounded.

We are led to believe the three guys dragged out the car were not protesting their innocence and begging not to be shot?

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I agree with all you say.   However, SD must endeavour to provide a verifiable LINK when he makes supposed statements of fact.  So far we have no such information to prove true or false.

Best to move on and deal in opinions or provide Links to back up supposed 'facts'.

[Stardust]

  On 3/30/2022 at 1:26 PM, KaptainRob said:

I agree with all you say.   However, SD must endeavour to provide a verifiable LINK when he makes supposed statements of fact.  So far we have no such information to prove true or false.

Best to move on and deal in opinions or provide Links to back up supposed 'facts'.

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The hacks from Anonymous are in the net and in many news outlets around the world

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60784526

I could fill it up with links, so what he is shown there is already documented! 

By the way it was from cnn to all famous news outlets the hack of the ministries

Please explain reliable source while I read from this posters permant stories with out any source. And give evidence that this officer from the Ukrainian National Guard and his chanel is not reliable source including the claims about the hacked documents what are out from Anonymous and accessable in the net and confirmed from news outlets.

[Stardust]

  On 3/30/2022 at 2:01 PM, Stardust said:

The hacks from Anonymous are in the net and in many news outlets around the world

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60784526

I could fill it up with links, so what he is shown there is already documented! 

By the way it was from cnn to all famous news outlets the hack of the ministries

Please explain reliable source while I read from this posters permant stories with out any source. And give evidence that this officer from the Ukrainian National Guard and his chanel is not reliable source including the claims about the hacked documents what are out from Anonymous and accessable in the net and confirmed from news outlets.

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Here another link to it and that this files are out

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10615799/Anonymous-claims-successfully-carried-new-cyberattack-Russian-government-websites.html

[Alavan]

  On 3/30/2022 at 9:11 AM, Fanta said:

I wonder if Amnesty International will also investigate the alleged kneecapping of Russian soldiers by Ukrainians? BBC covered it in their Fact Check so I wonder why this hasn’t been mentioned. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/28/ukraine-russia-pow-video/

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Why should AI investigate that?

The Ukrainian gouvernment is investigating it, and that is the correct authority, eventually together with the Red Cross.

[EdwardV]

"the Russian delegation announced they would significantly scale back their military activity near Kyiv, in order to increase trust and “create an atmosphere of peace.” - This is the spin you use when you are getting your rear end kicked. Of course when all you are doing is repositioning your troops to attack a different part of the country, is that really an attempt to create an atmosphere of peace?  

There were two main points in the article. First:

"a pledge of neutrality and no NATO membership, in exchange for a framework that would allow eight other countries to act as security guarantors, including Poland, Turkey and Israel. The guarantees would be legally binding and allow those countries to intervene if Ukraine is ever attacked in the future."

In other articles, the eight countries included those above and the US, France and the UK. That's NATO's main members and throwing in Israel (so much for Nazi claims) for good measure. When you add in a legally binding ability to intervene if attacked, that's pretty much NATO. Even if you wrote in language banning the permanent basing of foreign troops it doesn't mean much. NATO and the US specifically are already talking about permanent basing of heavy (read tanks) troops in Poland, Slovakia, and Romania (along with the Baltic States). It would be a distinction without a difference. You can't blame Ukraine for demanding this, but at the same time how does Russia agree to it? If they do, they would never be able to attack Ukraine again (which they fully intend to do IMO).

Second: 

They warned that no treaty can be signed and no referendum held while Russian troops are still in Ukraine. Also, the delegation’s head insisted that the embattled Donbass region in eastern Ukraine will remain a part of the country

So before a peace treaty can be signed, all Russian troops would have to be out of Ukraine (including Donbass). Oh yeah I can see Russia agreeing to this hahaha. Same with agreeing Donbass remains part of Ukraine. Putin agrees to this, next day he slips in the shower and falls on some bullets. 

[Soidog]

While not condoning any such vile action as kneecapping, let’s not forget that even if it is true, it wouldn’t have happened if Russians soldiers hadn’t invaded Ukraine. If I break in to someone’s house uninvited, kneecapping may be the least of my concerns. 

[Fanta]

  On 3/30/2022 at 2:28 PM, Alavan said:

The Ukrainian gouvernment is investigating it, and that is the correct authority, eventually together with the Red Cross.

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So the Nazis should have investigated their own war crimes?

  On 3/30/2022 at 4:25 PM, Soidog said:

While not condoning any such vile action as kneecapping, let’s not forget that even if it is true, it wouldn’t have happened if Russians soldiers hadn’t invaded Ukraine.

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Using that apologist thinking there would be no POWs because all captured soldiers would be executed in the spot. That’s why the Geneva convention exists to protect civilians and non combatants (aka POWs).