China to sign first Pacific security deal which will give them warships on Australia's doorstep

[Poolie]

8 minutes ago, butterfly said:

I think Australia should invade the Solomon islands for good measure 

Yeah, why not? They like to think they're American after all. Pick on someone tiny, maybe bomb them non-stop for a few weeks.

[Smithydog]

China can have its security pact with the Solomon Islands. Countries are free to do as they wish for their own national interests.

Equally Australia is free to stop all Australian Aid and support in response to this secretive deal with China if it is felt such an association threatens its own national interests.

But after all, the Government of the Solomon Islands is suspected to have been re-elected on the back of bribery. So it makes one wonder what else passed hands in the background of this treaty.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-10995231

And when the Chines fishing fleets return to fish out their environment, then they can cry to China for help. Doubtful much would happen then.

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, extoxttra said:

So not the warmongers they are being touted to be then?

Putin & Xi are the very essence of the term “warmonger”. Threatening unprovoked nuclear strikes against free democratic nations , is hardly “ peacemongering”….

[butterfly]

7 hours ago, Poolie said:

Yeah, why not? They like to think they're American after all. Pick on someone tiny, maybe bomb them non-stop for a few weeks.

and they would get away with it, unlike Russia

[NorskTiger]

It is always fun to see how a prime PACIFIC nation cannot expand in it's own backyard, yet the NON-PACIFIC hegemon expencts to stay on the doorstep of the same power.

    I believe China is more interested in securing the Malakka surroundings shipping lanes, including expanding their influence in Indonesia and Malaysia. One can see how they seem to have gotten a good diplomatic hold on the next G20 meeting despite USA's petty game of trying feverishly to deny Russias head of state access. 

         

 

    

[EdwardV]

On 8/21/2022 at 8:12 PM, NorskTiger said:

It is always fun to see how a prime PACIFIC nation cannot expand in it's own backyard, yet the NON-PACIFIC hegemon expencts to stay on the doorstep of the same power.

Exactly how is the Solomon Islands in China’s backyard? It’s almost 5,000 miles away. Heck the US is closer by a thousand miles. Oh and who is this non-pacific hegemony you are talking about? You might need a check a map of the Pacific Ocean again.
 

I worry about you sometimes. 

[NorskTiger]

6 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Exactly how is the Solomon Islands in China’s backyard? It’s almost 5,000 miles away. Heck the US is closer by a thousand miles. Oh and who is this non-pacific hegemony you are talking about? You might need a check a map of the Pacific Ocean again.
 

I worry about you sometimes. 

   The Solomon Islands is more of a Chinese backyard than Taiwan will ever be the overstretched empire. 

  Are you having problems seeing who is the NON-PACIFIC hegemon?  

  

     

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, NorskTiger said:

   The Solomon Islands is more of a Chinese backyard than Taiwan will ever be the overstretched empire. 

  Are you having problems seeing who is the NON-PACIFIC hegemon?  

The distance between the US and Taiwan is much closer than China to the Solomon Islands. Unlike you, I won’t leave you hanging. The US in this case is measured from Guam. 
 

I think your definition of “non-pacific” is different than say the world atlas. 

[NorskTiger]

25 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The distance between the US and Taiwan is much closer than China to the Solomon Islands. Unlike you, I won’t leave you hanging. The US in this case is measured from Guam. 
 

I think your definition of “non-pacific” is different than say the world atlas. 

Yes, Guam is such a great measure of USA being a Pacific "Power". It is kind of like saying China should stay out of South CHINA sea. 

    I don't think you for second believe murica is such a cose neighbor to Taiwan, but you will probably stay in that belief when the latter PEACEFULLY is fully reintegrated with the Chinese mainland. 

[EdwardV]

2 minutes ago, NorskTiger said:

Yes, Guam is such a great measure of USA being a Pacific "Power". It is kind of like saying China should stay out of South CHINA sea. 

    I don't think you for second believe murica is such a cose neighbor to Taiwan, but you will probably stay in that belief when the latter PEACEFULLY is fully reintegrated with the Chinese mainland. 

You mean besides the fact of America actually residing on the pacific coast right?  Your claim the US is a non-Pacific nation lacks any basis in actual fact. 
 

It’s not about distance, it’s about supporting independent democratic nations against an authoritarian government bent upon claiming ownership of a country they never owned. As for peaceful reunification, I wouldn’t hold your breath on that one. 

[NorskTiger]

18 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

You mean besides the fact of America actually residing on the pacific coast right?  Your claim the US is a non-Pacific nation lacks any basis in actual fact. 
 

It’s not about distance, it’s about supporting independent democratic nations against an authoritarian government bent upon claiming ownership of a country they never owned. As for peaceful reunification, I wouldn’t hold your breath on that one. 

Here we go again. Taiwan is neither independent, very "democratic" nor a nation (as measured by world community). 

   You seem confused about the history of Taiwan and probably don't accept a similar colonial history to, for example, HK. I think the reunification of HK is a blueprint for how Taiwan will also rejoin China. 

    Taiwan was a colony for a little bit more than 50 years before the Japanese left after WW2. Then, it took another 15 years before it was expelled from United Nations, at initative of USA, ending their global status as sovereign nation. 

    So Taiwan is in a comparable situation with other colonial vestiges and nothing else is to it. The strategic ambiguity of DC is to to imply a full support of Taiwan independence, while never uttering it in public. While this is not at all comparable to Ukraine/Donbass; the deeper intent is one of sawing discord and destabilization towards a geopolitical adversary, from the empire who can never accept anyone else as equals or desiring of unaligned (under it) status. 

      China is a wise and patient nation with more ancient traditions and history than most nations on earth.  They will continue to build goodwill and consensus in Asia, while letting Pelosi, Biden and the rest of US DeepState/MIC attempt to stir them up. 

 China and Russia are being driven together by the aggressive geopolitical pressure from Washington DC and those together are essentially making Eurasia a place free of pressure from US influence. 

 

   The Amerikan history as Pacific nation is very new, even more than the the nation itself. Hawai is an even NEWER entity as US province. Guam and Okinawa are mere military bases where the local populace have little say. The entire Marshall islands, taken over by Japan after WW2 is a domain of utter destruction thanks to US "need" to test their nuclear weapons. They were better off under Japanese colonial rule, but of course, today they deserve full sovereignty and nothing else. 

   USA is being driven out of Pacific in a slow and methodical fashion without need of war or force. Soft power is something this country has never been able to neither understand nor accept. Whether it is the Middle East, Pacific, Europe or South America, the bullying of the hegemon is meeting resitance at all places. 

   Wherever the US goes, it seems destruction and misery follows for the local population and the arrogance of their everpresent claims to be the moral policeman will continue to anger and grow resentment and dislike all over the globe. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by NorskTiger

[EdwardV]

4 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

Here we go again. Taiwan is neither independent, very "democratic" nor a nation (as measured by world community). 

For a country that you claim isn’t independent, China keeps asking them to reunify. You don’t see the logic problem with that demand? They have a freely elected government by the local citizens, how is that not democratic? You do know just because you say something, you can’t expect others to believe it if it doesn’t at least make common sense. 

 

4 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

for example, HK. I think the reunification of HK is a blueprint for how Taiwan will also rejoin China.

Hong Kong is probably the worst example you could use and yet you still did. Interesting to say the least. 

 

4 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

Taiwan was a colony for a little bit more than 50 years before the Japanese left after WW2. Then, it took another 15 years before it was expelled from United Nations, at initative of USA, ending their global status as sovereign nation. 

Being expelled from the UN doesn’t end ones sovereignty. Just so you know. Was mainland  China a sovereign country before being admitted to the UN? As for Taiwan they were part of the Chinese dynasty prior to being “given” to Japan. After WW2 they were given to the current owners. Don’t see any CCP in there. 

[NorskTiger]

The Taiwanese government can surely declare themselves "independent", but why don't they? Even THEY are not doing that. I wonder why?

    As you probably understand here, "reunification" is more about finalizing the constitutional belonging to China proper, kind of like HK did. It is the manner and not an IF. 

    For your last question, the UN was founded after WW2. Taiwan at first got the UN seat, mainly due to geopolitical struggles. This was reversed by the UN and USA taking the lead in this process. 

    If you claim Taiwan was "given" to Japan, are you saying they were a legitimate part of Japan now? The sematic dodge here is similar to trying to pretend that USA has a clear position on endorsing Taiwan independence. USA; UK, EU or the rest of the world (for the most). 

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

The Taiwanese government can surely declare themselves "independent", but why don't they? Even THEY are not doing that. I wonder why?

Why poke the bear when you can just wait out it’s death? 

 

2 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

As you probably understand here, "reunification" is more about finalizing the constitutional belonging to China proper, kind of like HK did. It is the manner and not an IF. 

Again you are proving my point. Why would the constitution need to be finished if Taiwan is already part of China as you claim? You keep using Hong Kong as an example and it never makes you look good. Hong Kong didn’t belong to China, which is why they were forced to negotiate with Britain. Either that or go to war which is what China threaten. You don’t do that if you already own the land. 

 

2 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

For your last question, the UN was founded after WW2. Taiwan at first got the UN seat, mainly due to geopolitical struggles. This was reversed by the UN and USA taking the lead in this process.

It was rhetorical. Even so you didn’t dispute the fact UN status doesn’t dictate whether or not you are an independent country. Be careful headed down the international organization route. China plays fast and loose when choosing which rules and rulings they wish to acknowledge with little rhyme or reason when doing so. You will more often than not land in a dead end. Word of warning. 

 

2 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

If you claim Taiwan was "given" to Japan, are you saying they were a legitimate part of Japan now? The sematic dodge here is similar to trying to pretend that USA has a clear position on endorsing Taiwan independence. USA; UK, EU or the rest of the world (for the most). 

No I’m not saying that. China gave up Taiwan as part of ending the Sino Japanese war. They were forced to give it back at the end of WW2. The Chinese government who took possession is the same one sitting in Taiwan. Not dodging anything, it’s called history. 

[NorskTiger]

6 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Why poke the bear when you can just wait out it’s death? 

  *Because otherwise, you are just trying to be sneaky about it and China can see straight through that. 

Again you are proving my point. Why would the constitution need to be finished if Taiwan is already part of China as you claim? You keep using Hong Kong as an example and it never makes you look good. Hong Kong didn’t belong to China, which is why they were forced to negotiate with Britain. Either that or go to war which is what China threaten. You don’t do that if you already own the land. 

   *The situation is very similar to HK. Are you denying the fact that there was an agreement of UK to return HK to China now? There is a similar agreement consensus, endorsed by USA of a reunification of Taiwan with China. HK is, in many ways a blueprint for China to follow. 

It was rhetorical. Even so you didn’t dispute the fact UN status doesn’t dictate whether or not you are an independent country. Be careful headed down the international organization route. China plays fast and loose when choosing which rules and rulings they wish to acknowledge with little rhyme or reason when doing so. You will more often than not land in a dead end. Word of warning. 

        *UN is a game everybody plays, but it is something world opinion accepts. You say China plays "fast and loose", but I can think of that as the norm and not the exception with large powers feeling under pressure.  To my knowledge, China is not a serial violator of sovereign nations as that prize goes to someone else. 

No I’m not saying that. China gave up Taiwan as part of ending the Sino Japanese war. They were forced to give it back at the end of WW2. The Chinese government who took possession is the same one sitting in Taiwan. Not dodging anything, it’s called history. 

         *Good luck with sticking to Taiwan being the one who is the Chinese government today. What do you think there is to do with that? Now, will we see USA boys dying in order to wrest Chinese control and influence of Taiwan away from the latter? Good luck with that too. The military who could not defeat a ragtag gang of farmers and village people without airforce or heavy weapons after 20 years cannot take on China and Russia at the same time. Neither do I think the current sentiment among US young people would be to die in such a conflict. 

 

[Zorba_the_Geek]

On 6/5/2022 at 5:16 PM, oldschooler said:

Also any conventional Alliance / CCP war would be over in 2-3 days with the clunky unskilled CCP navy /Air Force/ army invasion forces, at bottom of sea.

My concern here though is that CCP will then nuke Taiwan etc. with dire world Consequences. CCP /NK/  Russian Nukes must be somehow disabled beforehand…..

The nukes could be destroyed in Thier bunkers with conventional weapons. The big problem is they'd create nuclear eruptions or at best radioactive waste. 

[EdwardV]

2 minutes ago, NorskTiger said:

Because otherwise, you are just trying to be sneaky about it and China can see straight through that. 

I’m not even going to pretend I know what you meant with that sentence. Point is still the same, Taiwan is independent and China claiming otherwise doesn’t change the fact. Hence the term “reunification”. 

 

6 minutes ago, NorskTiger said:

The situation is very similar to HK. Are you denying the fact that there was an agreement of UK to return HK to China now? There is a similar agreement consensus, endorsed by USA of a reunification of Taiwan with China. HK is, in many ways a blueprint for China to follow. 

I never denied it in the first place. My point was Britain was under no legal obligation to hand over Hong Kong. That’s not to say there were not other reasons to do so, and why they made that horrible decision. A Taiwan reunification that is required to be peaceful and of their own choosing. You seem to have left that part out. Problem is China is claiming the right to do so by force and without the consent of the people of Taiwan. In typical Chinese behavior, they choose which parts of agreements to abide by when. Hong Kong is a perfect example of that, and the exact reason Taiwan doesn’t want anything to do with the mainland. 

19 minutes ago, NorskTiger said:

cannot take on China and Russia at the same time.

Besides the point the US isn’t taking on Russia. All the US has to do to make China cower in the corner sucking its thumb is to send over Nancy Pelosi. I think the pinks are still crying over that one. 

[oldschooler]

14 hours ago, Zorba_the_Geek said:

The nukes could be destroyed in Thier bunkers with conventional weapons. The big problem is they'd create nuclear eruptions or at best radioactive waste. 

Manageable. Parallel problem is that the mobile launchers would not all be destroyed. No defence against any ICBM launch.

[NorskTiger]

Looks like the hegemon got a slight here. 

A US ship who monitors "fishing" was apparently not let enter the Solomons as a routine passage. 5 years ago, this would not happen and 5 years from now, there will be no Anglos docking in the Solomons. 

 

    Solomon Islands doesn't answer US Coast Guard's request for port visit, US says - CNN

 

    Of course, this does not equate a "hard base", but it DOES imply smaller Asian islands are daring to stand up to the bully from afar.  

    

 

 

    

[NorskTiger]

On 8/25/2022 at 2:08 AM, EdwardV said:

I’m not even going to pretend I know what you meant with that sentence. Point is still the same, Taiwan is independent and China claiming otherwise doesn’t change the fact. Hence the term “reunification”. 

I never denied it in the first place. My point was Britain was under no legal obligation to hand over Hong Kong. That’s not to say there were not other reasons to do so, and why they made that horrible decision. A Taiwan reunification that is required to be peaceful and of their own choosing. You seem to have left that part out. Problem is China is claiming the right to do so by force and without the consent of the people of Taiwan. In typical Chinese behavior, they choose which parts of agreements to abide by when. Hong Kong is a perfect example of that, and the exact reason Taiwan doesn’t want anything to do with the mainland. 

Besides the point the US isn’t taking on Russia. All the US has to do to make China cower in the corner sucking its thumb is to send over Nancy Pelosi. I think the pinks are still crying over that one. 

LOL; "besides the point".

    USA is pretty much doing EVERYTHING in Ukraine except risking lives. The conflict is a classic proxy-conflict from the murica side. While they may not "technically" be at war with Russia, (and we all know USA loves to hide behind technical clauses), their participation in this war is of a dominant one. While European nations are mostly not supplying much more arms to Ukraine, USA carries on as before. No problem, they have plenty servile tax payers who have no choice, but paying and they still are riding the fumes of the FIAT.  

    Now, we are also seeing the government in SOlonom ISlands are becoming concerned of "color revolution": We now John Bolton on US TV himself admitted to having orchestrated coups in other nations, so this is not a surprise. 

   Solomon Islands to ban foreign journalists who are not ‘respectful’ – report | Solomon Islands | The Guardian

   Solomon Islands threatens to ban foreign journalists entry into country over 'demeaning' coverage (msn.com)

 

     Clearly, the West cannot help itself, but seems hell-bent on orchestrating another "color revolution". I am sure the Thai leadership must take note of what is going in here, feeling pretty confident China will not let USA do anything like that in they country. 

[EdwardV]

7 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

The conflict is a classic proxy-conflict from the murica side.

Actually a classic proxy war would be the US having Ukraine attack Russia. Not the other way around. Unless of course you think Biden convinced Russia to attack Ukraine so as to destroy the Russian army. Wow that’s genius. Books will be written about how he pulled that double deal off. 
 

 

7 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

While European nations are mostly not supplying much more arms to Ukraine,

We are back to the “correlation does not imply causation” issue again. The reason most of the European countries are not supplying a lot of weapons is because they don’t have a lot of weapons. It’s not because they don’t want to do so. Many of them are giving as much as they can. See the UK, Norway, Denmark, Czech Republic and Poland as prime examples. 

 

7 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

I am sure the Thai leadership must take note of what is going in here, feeling pretty confident China will not let USA do anything like that in they country. 

You do realize the US and Thailand have a mutual defense treaty right? Sometimes you make me wonder.

[NorskTiger]

Ukraine first: It matters very little what technicalities a conflict is entered into as long as the events ahead of it are the ones who forced it to happen. At the moment, and pretty much before and during entire conflict, this would not happen if it were not for the powers behind Zelensky, clearly sitting in London and DC. 

  

 With regards to Thailand, the reaility is one of not wanting to be dragged into the situation between China and USA over Taiwan. Whether or not there is a USA-Thai defense deal is irrelevant to this. Also, US has many a "treaty" around the world which is merely a political paper without much meaning. And I do not think such a treaty entails Thailand being entangled in the games the hegemon is clinging to versus China. 

       For now, Thailand is sitting very pretty in this entire thing. There is no indication of them facing any threat to their country besides the ongoing attempts from feeble "democracy" movements to saw discord. As long as this keeps going on, their ties to China will strengthen. Will the anglosphere understand this? I don't think so, because their lack of political and cultural empathy tends to be even bigger than their egos. 

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, NorskTiger said:

Ukraine first: It matters very little what technicalities a conflict is entered into as long as the events ahead of it are the ones who forced it to happen. At the moment, and pretty much before and during entire conflict, this would not happen if it were not for the powers behind Zelensky, clearly sitting in London and DC. 

How do you write an entire paragraph and not actually say anything? 

 

1 hour ago, NorskTiger said:

Also, US has many a "treaty" around the world

Seven, thats the total number of defense treaties for the USA. Sometimes I think you just make things up to fit your obvious objective. 

 

1 hour ago, NorskTiger said:

feeble "democracy" movements

You do realize Thailand actually is a democracy right? I do know it’s hard to tell at times, but they still are one. It’s probably hard for you to understand that considering China thinks the are one too.

[NorskTiger]

12 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

How do you write an entire paragraph and not actually say anything? 

Seven, thats the total number of defense treaties for the USA. Sometimes I think you just make things up to fit your obvious objective. 

You do realize Thailand actually is a democracy right? I do know it’s hard to tell at times, but they still are one. It’s probably hard for you to understand that considering China thinks the are one too.

 Behind all your vitriolic drives seems to reside an astonishing amount of hubric arrogance and ignorance. Likewise, you surely cannot believe that lack of nuance is something that will enable you to get your points accross?

      For example, you come up with "seven" defense treaties of murica as if I said something wrong. Again, nuance. treaties in " " may be treaties to you, but anglos have a tradition of disregarding treaties or simply reqriting them on the alter of "rules-based order", so it can be challenging for the uninvited to accept such as genuine agreements. 

     Again, democracy was used in QUOTE, but you fail to grasp the nuane in this. Does China consider itself a "democracy"? Is that something you believe or is it more of the same from your side?  What does the monarchy of Thailand have to do with this? 

     In typical Anglo fashion you are very strong believer. In might is right and economic domination makes for free people. So when wars are happening, they are mostly a consequence of banking forces and need to stay on top of all. It seems the world is continuing to slowly disengage from the Western FIAT order and enter the multipolar state. 

[Rookiescot]

10 minutes ago, NorskTiger said:

 Behind all your vitriolic drives seems to reside an astonishing amount of hubric arrogance and ignorance. Likewise, you surely cannot believe that lack of nuance is something that will enable you to get your points accross?

      For example, you come up with "seven" defense treaties of murica as if I said something wrong. Again, nuance. treaties in " " may be treaties to you, but anglos have a tradition of disregarding treaties or simply reqriting them on the alter of "rules-based order", so it can be challenging for the uninvited to accept such as genuine agreements. 

     Again, democracy was used in QUOTE, but you fail to grasp the nuane in this. Does China consider itself a "democracy"? Is that something you believe or is it more of the same from your side?  What does the monarchy of Thailand have to do with this? 

     In typical Anglo fashion you are very strong believer. In might is right and economic domination makes for free people. So when wars are happening, they are mostly a consequence of banking forces and need to stay on top of all. It seems the world is continuing to slowly disengage from the Western FIAT order and enter the multipolar state. 

Google really needs to improve its Russian to English language conversion. Thats KRL MRX levels of word salad right there.