News Forum - Phuket proposes visa and work permit scheme for digital nomads in Thailand

[dirkzett]

On 27.3.2022 at 16:51, Thaidup said:

Ich mag Ihre Einstellung, aber sagen Sie mir bitte, welchen Nutzen bringen Sie all den Ländern, die Sie besuchen? Außer das Geld aus dem letzten Jahrtausend auszugeben?

Ich frage, weil ich annehme, dass du die Wege und Straßen benutzt, du scheißt doch nicht auf die Straße, oder? Sie benutzen also die Toiletten, Sie benutzen das Internetsystem? Sie nutzen das Stromnetz?

Yes, but also not more often than a tourist, than a pensioner, than someone who lives from his investments and all of them do not pay penalty tax on their spent money in Thailand.
Why me then? For what?

[dirkzett]

On 27.3.2022 at 17:01, Marc26 said:

Dann bleib zu Hause......

I like intelligent conversationalists. You are welcome to ignore me.

[dirkzett]

On 27.3.2022 at 17:08, Thaidup said:

Hier kann es zu "Lost in Translation" kommen, jetzt, wo ich verstehe, dass Dirkzett kein natürlicher Englischsprecher ist, nachdem ich gesehen habe, wie die Übersetzungen herausgekommen sind, LOL,

Mein Hauptpunkt ist, dass "digitale Nomaden" immer noch verpflichtet sind, einen Teil dessen zu zahlen, was die Öffentlichkeit investiert hat, um ihnen die Ressourcen zur Verfügung zu stellen, um ein Einkommen zu erzielen, sei es durch ein Visum oder durch Steuern, und wenn sie es nicht tun nicht zahlen oder sich für das Visum qualifizieren, tschüss

And still no one can tell me which of these mysterious resources a digital nomad consumes more than a tourist, than a pensioner, than an investor, than a rich person, all of whom pay no extra taxes.
well, which ones?
All I read here is envy.
And yes, I am German, which is very clear from my sentence structure. Google translate helps me avoid most mistakes, plus I can dictate there.

[Thaidup]

On 4/2/2022 at 11:27 PM, dirkzett said:

And still no one can tell me which of these mysterious resources a digital nomad consumes more than a tourist, than a pensioner, than an investor, than a rich person, all of whom pay no extra taxes.
well, which ones?

The argument you made was that "Why should digital nomad's have to get a visa? " correct? the tourists and Pensioners, and an Investor all have to get a visa. The Resources that the 3 you identified consume are outweighed  by the benefit to the local,regional and National economy, Those 3^ pump money into the economy of Thailand and help promote jobs and infrastructure, A digi nomad sucks off that economy and benefits to there own existence by not paying tax at their home country or by using the tax payer paid resources of the country they are in?

Edited April 3, 2022 by Thaidup

[BangkokBruce]

1 hour ago, Thaidup said:

The argument you made was that "Why should digital nomad's have to get a visa? " correct? the tourists and Pensioners, and an Investor all have to get a visa. The Resources that the 3 you identified consume are outweighed  by the benefit to the local,regional and National economy, Those 3^ pump money into the economy of Thailand and help promote jobs and infrastructure, A digi nomad sucks off that economy and benefits to there own existence by not paying tax at their home country or by using the tax payer paid resources of the country they are in?

They just pay a lot of money for the hotel stays and food. The fact is they still pay money. While they may not pay local taxes to Thailand

 

1 hour ago, Thaidup said:

The argument you made was that "Why should digital nomad's have to get a visa? " correct? the tourists and Pensioners, and an Investor all have to get a visa. The Resources that the 3 you identified consume are outweighed  by the benefit to the local,regional and National economy, Those 3^ pump money into the economy of Thailand and help promote jobs and infrastructure, A digi nomad sucks off that economy and benefits to there own existence by not paying tax at their home country or by using the tax payer paid resources of the country they are in?

if they are from the United States they have to pay tax on earned income there.

 

[Marc26]

8 minutes ago, BangkokBruce said:

They just pay a lot of money for the hotel stays and food. The fact is they still pay money. While they may not pay local taxes to Thailand

if they are from the United States they have to pay tax on earned income there.

Any tax they pay in Thailand would reduce their tax obligation in the US

Before US and Thai have a tax treaty

 

And US citizens who live outside the US don't have to pay the US taxes up to their 1st $120k

 

So if you were working in Thailand and made 100k, you'd owe no taxes to the US

 

 

[Thaidup]

10 minutes ago, BangkokBruce said:

if they are from the United States they have to pay tax on earned income there.

Yes, both points you made are correct, we all know this, the digital nomads are getting upset because they will have to pay tax on earnings from their income made in Thailand. or because they have to get a seperate visa for doing that trade, Now let's all get real here, It was fun while it lasted, now that the tax agent is catching up they are getting upset because they will have to pay taxes from the country they make some money from, whoop de do, get used to it, back in the "old days" we all paid tax.

[Thaidup]

21 minutes ago, BangkokBruce said:

They just pay a lot of money for the hotel stays and food. The fact is they still pay money. While they may not pay local taxes to Thailand

Than the argument is mute, Tourists don't earn a living from "touring" Pensioners don't earn a living from "retiring" .  The unmistakable fact is that in Thailand you have to pay tax and get the appropriate visa if you want to earn a living here, be it short term or long term, and I think most countries are the same. MY 'opinion' is that some people are getting cranky because the times are catching up with them, and these are the same people that may want a digital society with open boarders, Well now they are getting a taste of what they may think is an open society. just my thoughts and opinion.

[dirkzett]

On 4/3/2022 at 12:29 PM, Thaidup said:

The argument you made was that "Why should digital nomad's have to get a visa? " correct? the tourists and Pensioners, and an Investor all have to get a visa. The Resources that the 3 you identified consume are outweighed  by the benefit to the local,regional and National economy, Those 3^ pump money into the economy of Thailand and help promote jobs and infrastructure, A digi nomad sucks off that economy and benefits to there own existence by not paying tax at their home country or by using the tax payer paid resources of the country they are in?

 

No, that's not my argument. I still don't find any logic in an additional taxation based on the reasoning that the DN doesn't use the Thai infrastructure more or less than tourists or pensioners, but because he earns money with his typing, unlike the Facebook chatter, he has to be punished (taxed).
Nothing else is at stake here. If longer visas should cost money, ok. If a longer stay of foreigners should be taxable, ok. 
But then for all, not only for a few groups. And why for digital nomads? Why not for redheads or for those motorcyclists or for the wannabe boxers?

Why actually no 10,000 baht penalty tax for all who do not spend 10,000 baht per 24h in Thailand?
 That's a suggestion. You pay entrance fee 10,000 baht / day and what you do not spend, forfeited?
But that would be too obvious, this greed for money.

 

 

[Marc26]

54 minutes ago, dirkzett said:

No, that's not my argument. I still don't find any logic in an additional taxation based on the reasoning that the DN doesn't use the Thai infrastructure more or less than tourists or pensioners, but because he earns money with his typing, unlike the Facebook chatter, he has to be punished (taxed).
Nothing else is at stake here. If longer visas should cost money, ok. If a longer stay of foreigners should be taxable, ok. 
But then for all, not only for a few groups. And why for digital nomads? Why not for redheads or for those motorcyclists or for the wannabe boxers?

Why actually no 10,000 baht penalty tax for all who do not spend 10,000 baht per 24h in Thailand?
 That's a suggestion. You pay entrance fee 10,000 baht / day and what you do not spend, forfeited?
But that would be too obvious, this greed for money.

I actually think if you are just in a place 2-3 months you are a tourist and shouldn't have to pay tax

 

If you want a longer term visa, then you should pay tax

[Thaidup]

Someone  please explain to me why a foreigner that visits any other country and makes money from that, should not have to pay income tax in that country?

Just trying to keep it simple now.

[Marc26]

9 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

Someone  please explain to me why a foreigner that visits any other country and makes money from that, should not have to pay income tax in that country?

Just trying to keep it simple now.

the key word you said is "visit"

 

Until you are a landed immigrant, you are a tourist and shouldn't pay taxes

 

 

 

 

[Thaidup]

25 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

the key word you said is "visit"

Until you are a landed immigrant, you are a tourist and shouldn't pay taxes

I asked "why"

[Marc26]

16 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

I asked "why"

And I answered ......but that is just my opinion

 

Because what's the cutoff, 2 weeks, 1 month?

 

Until you are a landed immigrant, you aren't really officially living in the country

[Thaidup]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

And I answered ......but that is just my opinion

Because what's the cutoff, 2 weeks, 1 month?

Until you are a landed immigrant, you aren't really officially living in the country

What you are suggesting may be a good way avoid of paying income tax, For example, If I can simply move from country to country every cutoff, 2 weeks, 1 month? etc, than I would never have to pay any income tax to the country I was earning an income in? correct?

Edited April 7, 2022 by Thaidup
inserted "income"

[Marc26]

19 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

What you are suggesting may be a good way avoid of paying income tax, For example, If I can simply move from country to country every cutoff, 2 weeks, 1 month? etc, than I would never have to pay any income tax to the country I was earning an income in? correct?

Sure but that is how countries are set up

 

They allow tourists to stay in their country for a certain period of time

 

We, as tourists are using the infrastructure.............so countries have set a period of time that allows you to do so tax free

What someone does on their computer is irrelevant, IMO

 

Then if they want to "live there", then they pay taxes

[Thaidup]

12 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Sure but that is how countries are set up

They allow tourists to stay in their country for a certain period of time

We, as tourists are using the infrastructure.............so countries have set a period of time that allows you to do so tax free

What someone does on their computer is irrelevant, IMO

Then if they want to "live there", then they pay taxes

So we seem to agree, Might be the first time in the last week or so.

[Fanta]

8 hours ago, Thaidup said:

Someone  please explain to me why a foreigner that visits any other country and makes money from that, should not have to pay income tax in that country?

Just trying to keep it simple now.

Your question implies that any money earned is somehow being removed from the Thai economy and that’s not the case in this Digital Nomad discussion. And no-one has mentioned that the costs required to raise and educate a foreign child to working/tax paying age are not subsidized by the Thai government. Those are necessary investments made by the foreigner’s government to ”create” future tax payers. In Thailand consumption tax and profit is paid on all goods and services purchased in Thailand. Essential services, such as power lines and police forces, are required to run the country and would exist with or without digital nomads. Can you name anything substantial that the Thai government subsidizes for non citizens? Rhetorical question- If I worked from a boat in international waters using Starlink where should I be liable for income tax?

[Thaidup]

On 4/8/2022 at 7:10 AM, Fanta said:

Your question implies that any money earned is somehow being removed from the Thai economy and that’s not the case in this Digital Nomad discussion. And no-one has mentioned that the costs required to raise and educate a foreign child to working/tax paying age are not subsidized by the Thai government. Those are necessary investments made by the foreigner’s government to ”create” future tax payers. In Thailand consumption tax and profit is paid on all goods and services purchased in Thailand. Essential services, such as power lines and police forces, are required to run the country and would exist with or without digital nomads. Can you name anything substantial that the Thai government subsidizes for non citizens? Rhetorical question- If I worked from a boat in international waters using Starlink where should I be liable for income tax?

No, I just asked why a foriegner should not have to pay income tax if they are making an income in a foriegn country? The point about being in international waters is mute, go for it, no one is concerned about what people do out there, IE, float around all you want for "free" you will have to come back sooner or later and pay people for food and stuff, and that income will be digital,traceable and taxable, So look out for what you may wish for. For me it's no issue, I have my future set up, If it goes digital I am fine, And Thailand is going digital very fast,

[HiuMak]

On 4/8/2022 at 12:52 AM, Marc26 said:

And I answered ......but that is just my opinion

Because what's the cutoff, 2 weeks, 1 month?

Until you are a landed immigrant, you aren't really officially living in the country

Generally >183 days staying in a country you are subjected to tax. How they calculate the days depends on country to country rules

[Marc26]

37 minutes ago, HiuMak said:

Generally >183 days staying in a country you are subjected to tax. How they calculate the days depends on country to country rules

And that's about 6 months

There are not too many tourist visas that go beyond 6 months 

 

You then have to get some sort of immigrant visa 

[Fanta]

4 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

And that's about 6 months

There are not too many tourist visas that go beyond 6 months 

You then have to get some sort of immigrant visa 

or get a multiple entry Non Immigrant visa with 1 year extensions 
https://visaguide.world/asia/thailand-visa/non-immigrant/ 

[Thaidup]

Some very good points made for and against, Now lets get this scenario  going, I am 50 years old and trade stocks for a living, I make all of my income by trading futures and fmt's my average income is US $517.000.00 PA, I spend 3 months a year in Thailand, the rest in other countries, Should I have to pay tax while Im in Thailand? I only made a few hundred dollars while I was working on my laptop?

[Fanta]

30 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

Some very good points made for and against, Now lets get this scenario  going, I am 50 years old and trade stocks for a living, I make all of my income by trading futures and fmt's my average income is US $517.000.00 PA, I spend 3 months a year in Thailand, the rest in other countries, Should I have to pay tax while Im in Thailand? I only made a few hundred dollars while I was working on my laptop?

If you are paid dividends in your own country while on vacation where is that income taxable? End of story. 

[TSS]

my niece & boyfriend are in their 30s and are DNs. They get around the world and "work" a few hrs. per day, enjoying and exploring places I'll never see. Also doing volunteer work. Good for them I say. They're not getting wealthy but doing just fine and enjoying this life now rather than trying to accumulate money for an uncertain future. Life's priorities and expectations were never the same as the so-called boomer gen.