Advice about my dowry situation

[thaifarmer]

Your wife is pregnant with your baby. Stick with your first offer of 3000 and tell your wife that you will take of the kid, together with her, financially, with or WITHOUT her mother. The mother plays it tough, so should you.

[Thaidup]

On 3/21/2022 at 10:57 PM, Marc26 said:

For me personally, I'd rather actually give 1mil baht than just show it

I detest any sort of "show" in anything and it is so rife in Thailand

Didn't we in the west have a reverse Thai dowry? when the young women would save over time and line a chest of goods and stuff to give the husband?

[Marc26]

3 hours ago, Thaidup said:

Didn't we in the west have a reverse Thai dowry? when the young women would save over time and line a chest of goods and stuff to give the husband?

Never heard of that before......

[Bluesofa]

3 hours ago, Thaidup said:

Didn't we in the west have a reverse Thai dowry? when the young women would save over time and line a chest of goods and stuff to give the husband?

Wasn't that more to buy goods to save for a future new home, rather than specifically give to the husband?

[Faraday]

In the UK, young women when engaged to be married, would have a 'bottom drawer'.

This would be filled with things that would be needed for the marriage, bed linen, kitchen stuff & etc.

I knew a young woman decades ago who was engaged to a local boy, & did have such.

Here's a link that explains it fully:

https://www.flyingtwigs.com/the-bottom-drawer/

[Bluesofa]

10 minutes ago, Faraday said:

In the UK, young women when engaged to be married, would have a 'bottom drawer'.

This would be filled with things that would be needed for the marriage, bed linen, kitchen stuff & etc.

I knew a young woman decades ago who was engaged to a local boy, & did have such.

Here's a link that explains it fully:

https://www.flyingtwigs.com/the-bottom-drawer/

(quoting the link above)
'The bottom drawer is what people in the UK call it. In the US, they might know it as a hope chest or a glory box'
I'd forgotten it was referred to in the UK as the 'bottom drawer', although 'glory box' sounds pretty exciting.

[Benroon]

On 3/21/2022 at 10:57 PM, Marc26 said:

For me personally, I'd rather actually give 1mil baht than just show it

I detest any sort of "show" in anything and it is so rife in Thailand

Hmmm but I think showing is a better precedent than being taken for a mug, ie I didn’t want to buy my wife which effectively is what you’re saying right ? Once we discussed it with the family do they really want to put their daughters future on the line for an outdated absurdity, all concerned saw sense. It’s worked out well. 

My Thai family have never asked a bean out of me in over a decade - this ‘tradition’ stuff is just taking westerners for a ride. 

[Marc26]

21 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Hmmm but I think showing is a better precedent than being taken for a mug, ie I didn’t want to buy my wife which effectively is what you’re saying right ? Once we discussed it with the family do they really want to put their daughters future on the line for an outdated absurdity, all concerned saw sense. It’s worked out well. 

My Thai family have never asked a bean out of me in over a decade - this ‘tradition’ stuff is just taking westerners for a ride. 

So you obviously don't agree with the custom but would do a show of it?

 

 

Again, to each's own.........you did what you felt was best for you.....

 

I wouldn't pay a dowry, but I would also not "show" it

 

I think it's gawdy and feeds into the "show off" mentality that Thailand is rife with

 

That is just my personal view, everyone should do what they feel most comfortable with............

[Benroon]

19 hours ago, Marc26 said:

So you obviously don't agree with the custom but would do a show of it?

Again, to each's own.........you did what you felt was best for you.....

I wouldn't pay a dowry, but I would also not "show" it

I think it's gawdy and feeds into the "show off" mentality that Thailand is rife with

That is just my personal view, everyone should do what they feel most comfortable with............

Correct - I did it as it made the wife happy. Your wedding day isn't the time to be an arse about principles, not that I care strongly about it wither way tbh. I made it clear that's why I was doing it as it wouldn't sit right with me buying a wife. Which is exactly what's going on. 

A lot of the events are gawdy and show off, that doesn't change whether you donate the money or not - it's still the same event. I just got mine returned. 

'Custom' in one country could easily be translated as 'scam' in another.

 

[Thaidup]

On 3/23/2022 at 7:40 AM, Bluesofa said:

they might know it as a hope chest or a glory box'

Yes that is it,"glory box" is the phrase I was trying to remember. It used to be a custom in Australia too, another custom in Australia is that(or was) the brides parents paid for the all the wedding costs.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Thaidup

[Thaidup]

On 3/1/2022 at 2:50 PM, Thaidup said:

Did anyone else think that TKO may be trolling? Anyway, You met in Japan, Is she a heart surgeon? Maybe her mom spent 3 million baht putting her through university, and now expects a husband suitable for her daughter?

Or did you pick her up in a bar? then up to you.

That's the two extremes, work it out from there.

My mother inlaw got a free bus ride, other than that she got jack.

 

On 3/1/2022 at 5:26 PM, GMoney2312 said:

For what result?

To get a reaction?

Notice that TKO has not responded to any reply, and now go look at his page. Me thinks my suspicion was right. "Smarter than the average bear", a quote from Yogi.

[Patongphil]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:13 AM, Normaljoe said:

Unless she is from a "High Society" family do not expect any of it to be given back. Also, this was addressed and the amount agreed upon prior to the legal marriage, so stick with it. If you allow the mom into your wallet now, it will never stop. And my advice is that if your wife is not supportive of the original agreement, then it may be time to seriously consider a divorce before you find out many other "small" issues that will in reality be huge issues.

A demanding self-centered Thai mother-in-law is a huge Red Flag, and a Thai wife that supports the mother over the husband is a second huge Red Flag. Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but I have seen way too many Thai/farang relationships turn upside down over money issues with the "extended" family. 

Politely inform "mom" that if you divorce her daughter she will never see a sin sod as divorced Thai women do not get any. Also since she married a farang, she will never marry a Thai man as they will not have her.

Save yourself before your money is soon parted. Either the wife is your wife or she is her mother's daughter. The latter is the recipe for your ruin.

Very wrong - I personally know  3 Thai women who were married to Farang and are now married to Thais.

[dj230]

On 2/28/2022 at 7:17 AM, TkoFarang said:

Hello All,

I'm new to this forum but am hoping I can hear some advice. Please allow me to explain my situation.

I met my Thai wife in Japan, and this is where we currently live. After 4 years of dating I proposed to her and then 1 year later we got married purely in the legal sense (at the city hall in Tokyo).

We are hoping to have an actual wedding in Thailand after Covid has calmed down. Now I need to be clear, I was made aware of the dowry before we got married, and my understanding of it was that it would cost somewhere around £3000 and that typically it is given back and is more of a symbolic gesture. So, we offered a dowry of £3000.

My wife's mother rejected the offer of £3000 and started demanding upwards of £12000. My wife informed me of this and I was lost for words. Simply put, I don't have that kind of money. After some discussion, my wife was able to lower the dowry to £6000. This is better but still very high, as we need money for our future.

Regardless of the money, I am also upset by the attitude on display by my wife's mother. Every time we talk all she wants to ask about is the money and when we will pay. She doesn't care about the fact we are married, she hasn't congratulated us once. It really does feel as if she only sees me as some cash cow.

Different cultures, I get it. But still, this is a huge issue that is dividing my wife and I. She has told me that she disagrees with the amount and wishes we didn't need to pay it, but she still argues that it is a major part of Thai culture and that we can't escape it. I was not against paying some form of dowry, but I am upset by the huge amount and the attitude in which my wife's mother is asking for it.

Am I in the wrong? Should I just suck it up? My wife's sister is also constantly asking for money and this is draining my wife's and my resources very quickly. We haven't been able to afford things for ourselves for a while as my wife keeps sending money to her sister. I feel as if I am suffocating under all of these monetary demands.

I love my wife, I really do. She is currently pregnant with our first child. I want us to be able to provide a good life for our child but at this rate I am worried we simply won't be able to afford anything.

Thank you for letting me vent, if nothing else.

What exactly is the mother going to do if you don't pay a dowry at all? 

I will admit, I am not a 'veteran' in Thailand, nor claim to be, but from my experience I have had zero Thai girls ask me for a dowry of any sort or mention it, the girl I am currently with, I have met her family a few times, never have they asked me for money, ever.

I always thought the whole dowry thing was a 'scam'? 

 

 

 

 

[Marc26]

31 minutes ago, dj230 said:

What exactly is the mother going to do if you don't pay a dowry at all? 

I will admit, I am not a 'veteran' in Thailand, nor claim to be, but from my experience I have had zero Thai girls ask me for a dowry of any sort or mention it, the girl I am currently with, I have met her family a few times, never have they asked me for money, ever.

I always thought the whole dowry thing was a 'scam'? 

It's not a scam, regardless what you/we think about it

 

I didn't and wouldn't pay sin soht but it's now a real possibility that my stepson may have to at some point 

[dj230]

2 hours ago, Marc26 said:

It's not a scam, regardless what you/we think about it

I didn't and wouldn't pay sin soht but it's now a real possibility that my stepson may have to at some point 

Is it just a thing for certain provinces/villages? 
 

I’m in Bangkok and have yet to meet anyone who has asked for anything of that sort. The few that I asked have told me it’s a scam, but I only asked 2 girls when I first came to bangkok as I was curious. Never heard of it ever again from anyone I’ve met since I’ve been here.  

Edited April 17, 2022 by dj230

[JamesR]

On 2/28/2022 at 3:37 AM, Soidog said:

I think a range of good advice has already been given. I feel sorry that you find yourself in this situation. You seem to have found a good woman and one working hard to make your life together better. As the saying goes, you can choose your wife, but you can’t choose your family!  That’s also true for your wife. The only other options with this is to simply forget getting married in Thailand. You are legally married and you have a life away from her family. With their attitude to this situation and the harshness of further increases to your offer, it suggests the closer you get to her mother, he more problems it will create for you. 

My harsh advice is this:

Establish the families financial situation.

Determine from that how much your earnings are likely to be attractive to their needs.

Decide how much, if any amount your are prepared to provide to support these needs. 
 

The key to all this is your Thai wife. It’s her family and her culture. Dowry’s are not part of your culture. Where does it say that in a relationship the man has to accommodate a more regressive culture to your own? 
 

If there is a conflict or you suspect this problem will not go away, then I’m afraid the choices are to cut them off or find a new partner in life. 

 

Good luck to you both.

Good advice but he won’t be able to do much about his wife sending money home every month maybe secretly. 

I with three hundred guests was married in the Dusit Thani hotel in Bangkok, I paid for it as I followed my own tradition as I would have done the same in the UK. 
 

I was not aware of the Sin Sod tradition it looks to me like it is a low class village tradition. 

If I had been asked I would have said no as I would not like to end up a Silly Sod by paying a Sin Sod. 

[Guest1]

I can be wrong, but is the dowry not coming from that the girls inherit (usually) house and land, b/c they care father and mother later, and the boys get usually money for marry into another family?

As I said, I can be wrong, but that was the explanation I got about it, some years ago.

[JamesR]

16 minutes ago, Transam said:

"Low class tradition" eh, says the bloke who weds a Thai not knowing what he was marrying into...

Plus, as your bird had already been married, there is no Sin Sod, there ya go, you learnt another low class Thai thing today...... 

Knew her for three years as we were at university together in London before marriage, she was doing her masters degree having first obtained a degree from BKK.

I had met the parents and siblings as they flew to the UK to check me out, one uncle was an ex-vice president of Thailand, so I knew all about the family.

We had a surprise picture in the Bangkok Post in the society pages taken at the Dust Thani hotel during the wedding celebrations in BKK as he blessed us with water in the traditional way.

She and I had never been married before.

And no sniff of a village buffalo or the other type of animal at the wedding and no one trying to grab me for money as seems to be the case with most other farangs I have come across judging by their stories on this site. 

It makes me laugh how you make things up about people though. 

Keep up the good work as it is quite funny. 

[JamesR]

9 minutes ago, Transam said:

That reads just like my story too...........

In that case we must have married the same Thai. 

[Marc26]

14 hours ago, JamesR said:

Knew her for three years as we were at university together in London before marriage, she was doing her masters degree having first obtained a degree from BKK.

I had met the parents and siblings as they flew to the UK to check me out, one uncle was an ex-vice president of Thailand, so I knew all about the family.

We had a surprise picture in the Bangkok Post in the society pages taken at the Dust Thani hotel during the wedding celebrations in BKK as he blessed us with water in the traditional way.

She and I had never been married before.

And no sniff of a village buffalo or the other type of animal at the wedding and no one trying to grab me for money as seems to be the case with most other farangs I have come across judging by their stories on this site. 

It makes me laugh how you make things up about people though. 

Keep up the good work as it is quite funny. 

Good for you, sounds nice

 

But I don't know how you could be married to a Thai and be so oblivious on Sin Soht

 

It may be an older tradition but it certainly not exclusively a "low class tradition "

 

But hey, you got to brag about your beautiful wedding

So that's a great result!   

[JamesR]

44 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Good for you, sounds nice

But I don't know how you could be married to a Thai and be so oblivious on Sin Soht

It may be an older tradition but it certainly not exclusively a "low class tradition "

But hey, you got to brag about your beautiful wedding

So that's a great result!   

No I would rather have married a lower class Thai, one who could tell me all about Sin Soht and their version of Thai culture, they could have helped me get rid of my money and wealth and I could have sent money to help the poor old mum and dad every month, not forgetting the buffalo.

Or one who had a few kids as it seems reading on this forum they are much cheaper to buy via Sin Soht. 

It is funny as many farangs married to Thais seem to think there is one Thai culture and it is uniform and all encapsulating, in fact today Thailand is like England was in the Victorian times where there were massive class differences and they only came into contact with each other if work was involve. 

 

[JamesR]

On 3/23/2022 at 12:27 AM, Bluesofa said:

Wasn't that more to buy goods to save for a future new home, rather than specifically give to the husband?

Yes, in England it was called the ''bottom draw'', people would buy things over the years piece by piece to use when they had a place of their own to live and furnish, but it was for joint use.

[DwizzleyMatthews]

56 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Yes, in England it was called the ''bottom draw'', people would buy things over the years piece by piece to use when they had a place of their own to live and furnish, but it was for joint use.

Actually “ bottom drawer “ as it often referred to items stored in the bottom drawer of a chest [of drawers]. Typically linen or silverware in preparation for marriage.

[js89]

On 2/28/2022 at 4:41 AM, GMoney2312 said:

Update!

I did not mention getting any of the $10,000 back. But right now my wife just told me that half of that money went towards buying the land we are now building a house! I was wondering why it seemed so cheap years ago! Wow!

So yes, it appears 50% came back to me- and I just found out! 

No, the money isn't coming back to you, since you legally can't own the land. It's in their name and if you ever get divorced, you won't see anything from the land or from the eventual house. 

Be prudent before sinking your money into projects - it's rarely for your benefit. If you can't afford to lose the money, don't spend the money. 

Learn to say no. The more your wife's sister receives money, the more she'll continue to ask. And you'll get your wife's other family members and even friends start coming to you to beg for money. 

This isn't just a Thai-Farang issue - it happens to Thai people too. For some reason, it's culturally acceptable in Thailand to ask someone else for money, no matter how tenuous the relationship. I see my Thai friends constantly being hit up by people, family and friends, for a "loan"