News Forum - Thailand is revising surrogacy laws to allow foreigners to hire Thais to bear children

[Benroon]

21 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Agreed on all counts - as long as everyone's happy, I don't see anything wrong with surrogacy, prostitution, organ donation, or any other related activity.

If only you had said that to begin with before you started to dig.

"Moral describes something involved with or related to principles of what is CONSIDERED righteous behaviour, as in The wise man has offered moral guidance to many people"

So given that's the dictionarys definition of the word moral - you think prostitutes are aligned to a surrogate mother ? Really ? 

As for ethics - you need to stop using words you're not sure of.

[JamesR]

2 hours ago, Benroon said:

Just laughable even for you - using your logic there's no difference between surrogacy and being a welder ! They do it for profit too right? That's how absurd your comparison is.

If you truly believe that a woman who offers a surrogacy to her sister for example to complete their family is operating in life on the same level as a prostitute providing sexual favours you're certifiably nuts ! (I don't even have a problem with prostitution but the two areas don't cross at any point) - everything on the planet is done for free or profit so that's not a consideration.

And its pointless going into the psychological aspects if you're struggling with the basics- that you think there are none is again baffling.  Presumably depression isn't real and you should just pull yourself together right ?

There is absolutely no moral or ethical comparison whatsoever.

True, those were my thoughts regarding the comparison of a prostitute to the surrogate, if @Stonkeris right then we are all using our bodies to make money so we in turn are prostitutes as most of us would not go to work and do our jobs to make the bosses happy  unless we were being paid.

"Hi, what do you do as a job".

"I am a prostitute".

"That is funny, me too, everyone seems to be doing the same job". 

[Stonker]

16 hours ago, JamesR said:

True, those were my thoughts regarding the comparison of a prostitute to the surrogate, if @Stonkeris right then we are all using our bodies to make money so we in turn are prostitutes as most of us would not go to work and do our jobs to make the bosses happy  unless we were being paid.

"Hi, what do you do as a job".

"I am a prostitute".

"That is funny, me too, everyone seems to be doing the same job". 

Who said or suggested that "using our bodies to make money"  means "we in turn are prostitutes"?

I certainly didn't, nor did I suggest anything quite so bizarre.

What's next? 

Are you saying that because @Benroon said that if "you've grown that kidney inside you and are now giving it to me to aid my well being" that means he's saying that anyone who does anything to 'aid someone's well being' means they're a kidney donor?

[Stonker]

18 hours ago, Benroon said:

If only you had said that to begin with before you started to dig.

"Moral describes something involved with or related to principles of what is CONSIDERED righteous behaviour, as in The wise man has offered moral guidance to many people"

So given that's the dictionarys definition of the word moral - you think prostitutes are aligned to a surrogate mother ? Really ?

Hard to know where to start with all your posts and umbrage, but this is probably as good a place as any.

No, that's NOT "the dictionarys definition of the word moral".

What you've quoted is a 'synonym study', not a definition.

The definition, from the same source, is "of, relating to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong"

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/moral

Given that THAT is the dictionary's definition of the word moral, I don't think that prostitution is any more (or less) immoral than surrogacy as I don't think it's any more right or wrong.

18 hours ago, Benroon said:

As for ethics - you need to stop using words you're not sure of.

Maybe you should have read your own source more carefully when you were misrepresenting the definition of moral:

"of, relating to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical"

I've put it in bold for you, as you seem to have missed it although it's in the first line of the entry.

[Stonker]

21 hours ago, Benroon said:

Just laughable even for you - using your logic there's no difference between surrogacy and being a welder ! They do it for profit too right? That's how absurd your comparison is.

The "difference", which is what I've been pointing out since my first post here, as have others, is that up until now surrogacy has been illegal, just as prostitution has been.

As far as I'm aware, "being a welder" is not illegal here .

21 hours ago, Benroon said:

If you truly believe that a woman who offers a surrogacy to her sister for example to complete their family is operating in life on the same level as a prostitute providing sexual favours you're certifiably nuts !

But that isn't what the article is about, however much you may like it to be, nor any of my comments, nor what anyone commenting here has suggested - apart from you.

The article is about "Thailand is revising surrogacy laws to allow foreigners to hire Thais to bear children".

If you're unable to see that and to read the headline, then your either being deliberately obtuse, you can't see through the red haze you've created, or, to use your words, you're "certifiably nuts".

21 hours ago, Benroon said:

And its pointless going into the psychological aspects if you're struggling with the basics- that you think there are none is again baffling.  Presumably depression isn't real and you should just pull yourself together right ?

Again, you seem unable to read what's written very clearly - I never suggested there are no psychological aspects.  What I asked, I thought quite clearly, was "Seriously, what's the moral difference and where are the most "extreme psychological issues" likely to be found?  With those who can't get any kids or those who can't get any sex?"

Again, maybe the red mist has obscured your vision.

I may well be wrong, but I'd put quite a large sum of money on a lot more people having psychological issues because they can't get enough sex than those who can't get enough kids.

21 hours ago, Benroon said:

(I don't even have a problem with prostitution but the two areas don't cross at any point)

Of course they cross, which is the point you're refusing to accept or see even though it's been the point I've been making since my first post here, as have others:  THEY'RE BOTH ILLEGAL.

[Stonker]

21 hours ago, Benroon said:

I don't either as I've said before - I can understand your need to backtrack from your MORAL comparison but you're getting tangled up. 

OMFG - now we're on the "backtrack" meme even though all I've done is repeat exactly what I've said from my first post here onwards.   It's like a re-run of the last time I was accused of "backpedalling" when I repeated exactly what I'd written the first time, word for exact word.

The point is simply that they're both illegal even though one is no more morally or ethically wrong than the other, and that shouldn't be the case.

[Benroon]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:02 PM, Stonker said:

OMFG - now we're on the "backtrack" meme even though all I've done is repeat exactly what I've said from my first post here onwards.   It's like a re-run of the last time I was accused of "backpedalling" when I repeated exactly what I'd written the first time, word for exact word.

The point is simply that they're both illegal even though one is no more morally or ethically wrong than the other, and that shouldn't be the case.

So there we'll have to leave it (though that would be a first for you I'm thinking?)

If you genuinely can't see a moral and ethical chasm between prostitution and surrogacy then to use your recent missive - there's nothing I can help you with. I remain baffled. We move on ....

[Tim_Melb]

On 2/15/2022 at 9:13 PM, Benroon said:

I can't think of a single reason why the two are even connected? 

Absolutely no connection between the two and the number of surrogates would be so low it will never have an impact. Low birth rates is something that happens to all societies as their economy improves beyond a standard of living threshold where having large families becomes less desirable. Thailand is reaching that point. It's not a developing nation anymore. 

[Tim_Melb]

On 2/15/2022 at 1:52 PM, Cabra said:

This article is about Thailand changing its surrogacy laws to grease the skids for medical tourism (i.e., it's about money). 

No it's about legalising surrogacy and putting in a regulated framework to put an end to the illegal surrogacy that has been going on ever since it was first outlawed and removing the dangerous criminal element from the process. You are talking like they are going to start babie factories which is complete rubbish. 

[Tim_Melb]

On 2/15/2022 at 2:05 PM, Lowseasonlover said:

Wasn't there one recently were she refused to hand over the baby?

There have been several. 

[Lowseasonlover]

Dont need to change the law they will sell you one, if the right amount is offered 

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Benroon said:

If you genuinely can't see a moral and ethical chasm between prostitution and surrogacy then to use your recent missive - there's nothing I can help you with. I remain baffled. We move on ....

I don't know if the problem is your command of English or if you're unwilling to read what's actually written not just by myself but in the article and the headline.

The headline was "Thailand is revising surrogacy laws to allow foreigners to hire Thais to bear children".

The key word which you've ignored throughout is "HIRE".

They're not doing it for a good cause, but for "HIRE".

[Cabra]

1 hour ago, Tim_Melb said:

No it's about legalising surrogacy and putting in a regulated framework to put an end to the illegal surrogacy that has been going on ever since it was first outlawed and removing the dangerous criminal element from the process. You are talking like they are going to start babie factories which is complete rubbish. 

Pulled directly from the article:

"Revisions to the law are aimed at promoting Thailand as a medical hub, gaining more income for the country"

It's about money!

 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Tim_Melb said:

No it's about legalising surrogacy and putting in a regulated framework to put an end to the illegal surrogacy that has been going on ever since it was first outlawed and removing the dangerous criminal element from the process.

So how about legalising prostitution and putting in a regulated framework to put an end to the illegal prostitution that has been going on ever since it was first outlawed and removing the dangerous criminal element from the process?

While prostitution arguably needs more skill and most will make considerably less money from doing it, in this context both are simply hiring out their bodies for a set period, so why legalise one to put it in a regulated framework and remover the dangerous criminal element, but not the other?

[Stonker]

2 minutes ago, Cabra said:

It's about money!

Of course it is = pretending it's about promoting a good cause is just blinkered fantasy.