News Forum - Hong Kong warns against intervening in cull of Covid-19 hamsters

[Thaiger]

Facing a backlash after their order to kill about 2,000 hamsters caught up in a Covid-19 outbreak, Hong Kong officials are warning people not to intervene in the hamster euthanasia. 11 hamsters tested positive for Covid-19 in an outbreak that also spread to a worker at a pet shop, prompting authorities to spring to action Tuesday to curb the spread of the cluster by rounding up about 2,000 hamsters from several dozen pet shops in order to kill them. But now, thousands of people are pushing back, offering to adopt the hamsters or otherwise step is to prevent the mass euthanasia. People […]

The story Hong Kong warns against intervening in cull of Covid-19 hamsters as seen on Thaiger News.

Read the full story

[ThaiEyes]

Have they gone completely Covid crazy? What’s next? Start killing people with Covid and ask others to not intervene?

[HolyCowCm]

Seems odd. Are they worried about a mutation and if not why wouldn’t the hamsters be able to get healthy again same as we do? It only 2000 hamsters witch should be easy enough to manage. 

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, ThaiEyes said:

Have they gone completely Covid crazy? What’s next? Start killing people with Covid and ask others to not intervene?

Oh perleeze .....

[Stonker]

6 hours ago, Robosibbo said:

 

All not just incorrect, but totally untrue.

The ONS have NEVER said that only 17,000 have died "of Covid". On the contrary, last week their figure was 176,035 Covid deaths, where Covid was on the death certificate as a cause of death - considerably higher than the government figure.

... and it's physically impossible for Covid-19 to be "just a cold" - not only are 80% of colds rhinoviruses not coronaviruses, but it's as accurate as saying a whale is just a mouse because they're both mammals.

6 hours ago, Robosibbo said:

...source ONS in the UK ...

Totally untrue.

Give a link to your source, since the direct link to the ONS contradicts that.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/deaths#deaths

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/11/uk-covid-death-toll-ons

Edited January 23, 2022 by Smithydog
Quote in this post from previously removed misleading post edited out.

[Vince]

4 hours ago, ThaiEyes said:

Have they gone completely Covid crazy? What’s next? Start killing people with Covid and ask others to not intervene?

It's not totally unjustified hamster genocide. 

The spread of COVID 19 has been traced in human-animal contacts. 

In one case bats above a pig farm (backyard pig farms are supposed to be common in China) defecated into the pig penned area, causing them to be infected. Then people killed and ate the pigs. Then they got infected. 

So it's not as crazy as it sounds, but the headlines are absolutely beautiful fodder for satire. 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Robosibbo said:

Good on the people... Nearly every government in this whole world has gone totally mad...it's nothing more than a cold now... and it's just been discovered in the UK, so called 150K deaths... true 17K have died of COVID, 133K with COVID...source ONS in the UK, and average of the 150K 82 years and 5 months....flu is worse.... wake up people

I found your "source" - not the ONS, but a website claiming the ONS had said so - but when you click on their link to the ONS, the ONS very clearly don't say that.

https://notaakhirzaman.com/9177/

The website simply lied.

[Lawyers_Guns_and_Money]

5 hours ago, Thaiger said:

Facing a backlash after their order to kill about 2,000 hamsters caught up in a Covid-19 outbreak, Hong Kong officials are warning people not to intervene in the hamster euthanasia. 11 hamsters tested positive for Covid-19 in an outbreak that also spread to a worker at a pet shop, prompting authorities to spring to action Tuesday to curb the spread of the cluster by rounding up about 2,000 hamsters from several dozen pet shops in order to kill them. But now, thousands of people are pushing back, offering to adopt the hamsters or otherwise step is to prevent the mass euthanasia. People […]

The story Hong Kong warns against intervening in cull of Covid-19 hamsters as seen on Thaiger News.

Read the full story

Sheesh! How long does it take to kill a bunch of hamsters? 

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, Robosibbo said:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnootherunderlyingcauses

The link's the same as the one given by the website I gave.

It doesn't say what the website claimed, nor does it say what you claim.

It's a direct lie.

The ONS clearly state that not only was Covid a factor in over 175,000 deaths in the UK but that 

"COVID-19 was the underlying cause of majority of deaths where COVID-19 was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate in December".

Their bold, and they give a similar statement in their other reports, not just for December.

Your link simply doesn't say what you and the site claim. If it does, quote it saying that and I'll not only admit that I'm wrong but happily leave this forum.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Smithydog
Quote from previous post deemed misleading edited out.

[Vince]

44 minutes ago, Lawyers_Guns_and_Money said:

Sheesh! How long does it take to kill a bunch of hamsters? 

Hmm... good question..

Firing squat? Nope. 

Lethal injection? Maybe..need really small needles. Still need 2000 injections....

Electrocution... Too small.

Poison gas? Hmm.....maybe. messy. Need special equipment. Need proper dosage of poison. Need poison.

Blunt force trauma ? Need 2000 people to do it all at once, or one guy 2000x, etc....

..... 

[Lawyers_Guns_and_Money]

1 minute ago, Vince said:

Hmm... good question..

Firing squat? Nope. 

Lethal injection? Maybe..need really small needles. Still need 2000 injections....

Electrocution... Too small.

Poison gas? Hmm.....maybe. messy. Need special equipment. Need proper dosage of poison. Need poison.

Blunt force trauma ? Need 2000 people to do it all at once, or one guy 2000x, etc....

..... 

Four cats! Done deal.

[Vince]

8 minutes ago, Lawyers_Guns_and_Money said:

Four cats! Done deal.

Still that's 500 per cat... Not gonna be done in 5 minutes. 

[Lawyers_Guns_and_Money]

14 minutes ago, Vince said:

Still that's 500 per cat... Not gonna be done in 5 minutes. 

I think you are underestimating the efficiency of Hong Kong cats. These aren't Western cats that sit around all day licking uh...themselves. Tempted to say pussy, but I think that would be taken the wrong way. You wouldn't catch a Hong Kong cat sitting around all day watching their owner make tik tok videos.

Hong Kong cats aren't pussies.

[Lawyers_Guns_and_Money]

6 hours ago, ThaiEyes said:

Have they gone completely Covid crazy? What’s next? Start killing people with Covid and ask others to not intervene?

They are sending a message to their citizens. This is the HK equivalent of leaving a horse's head in a bed.

[Vince]

3 minutes ago, Lawyers_Guns_and_Money said:

I think you are underestimating the efficiency of Hong Kong cats. These aren't Western cats that sit around all day licking uh...themselves. Tempted to say pussy, but I think that would be taken the wrong way. You wouldn't catch a Hong Kong cat sitting around all day watching their owner make tik tok videos.

Hong Kong cats aren't pussies.

Good point. But even the Charles Bronson of cats will have some simple mechanics (no reference to The Mechanic, a Bronson film, intended), to deal with: catch hamster, dispatch hamster to Valhalla, get next hamster.

The cat will have to move to the next criminal hamster or have them presented for execution by a third party (hopefully with thumbs). Takes time.

 

[BraveNewFahrenheit]

9 hours ago, ThaiEyes said:

Have they gone completely Covid crazy? What’s next? Start killing people with Covid and ask others to not intervene?

Let's hope that five years from now this does not come true like all of the other "conspiracy theories" of the last two years.

[Stardust]

10 hours ago, ThaiEyes said:

Have they gone completely Covid crazy? What’s next? Start killing people with Covid and ask others to not intervene?

"Off Topic comments and video removed under Forum Guidelines Rule (6)"

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Smithydog
Removed off topic comments

[Stardust]

"Off Topic comments and video removed under Forum Guidelines Rule (6)"

Edited January 23, 2022 by Smithydog
Off Topic Comments and video removed

[Robosibbo]

9 hours ago, Stonker said:

All not just incorrect, but totally untrue.

The ONS have NEVER said that only 17,000 have died "of Covid". On the contrary, last week their figure was 176,035 Covid deaths, where Covid was on the death certificate as a cause of death - considerably higher than the government figure.

... and it's physically impossible for Covid-19 to be "just a cold" - not only are 80% of colds rhinoviruses not coronaviruses, but it's as accurate as saying a whale is just a mouse because they're both mammals.

Totally untrue.

Give a link to your source, since the direct link to the ONS contradicts that.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/deaths#deaths

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/11/uk-covid-death-toll-ons

Guess I will be banned, but please tell me why this is misleading

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathsandautopsiesfeb2020todec2021

There's a difference between dying of purely just COVID, or dying within 28 days of receiving a COVID test...when I tested positive on 1st November 2021, if I had been knocked off my motorcycle on 23rd Nov I would have been a covid death...i am not saying 133K, or as I have been corrected 159K of people was absolutely in my motorcycle scenario because obviously that would be ridiculous, but what I am saying how many of those poor souls of 159K would have died regardless of contracting COVID, we will never know...what I am saying since day 1 of this pandemic, the "media" has sensationalised as much bad an horror headlines around the world as possible and governments have listened to it....this disease is not the black plague and never will be, I totally respect at the start it was a very vicious virus for a great number of people, but as time has gone on it has drastically reduced potency to the fact that my 94 year old mother tested positive and was still able to prune plants in the garden, remember at 94. But on the other hand certain individuals, albeit in the corporate are making fortunes from this IE testing, PPE, dare I say vaccine s, so they certainly have a vested interest to keep this going as long as possible...all my personal experiences and as Whitesnake has quoted a bit to much censorship is in operation, not any specific forum but in worldwide media... anyway save the Hamsters

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Robosibbo said:

Guess I will be banned, but please tell me why this is misleading

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathsandautopsiesfeb2020todec2021

Because what you're saying your link says is untrue.

1 hour ago, Robosibbo said:

There's a difference between dying of purely just COVID, or dying within 28 days of receiving a COVID test...when I tested positive on 1st November 2021, if I had been knocked off my motorcycle on 23rd Nov I would have been a covid death...

No you wouldn't  -  that's simply not correct, and it's a myth.

You would only have been a "Covid death" if Covid had been on your death certificate as a contributory factor, as a "cause of death", NOT because you had tested positive within the previous 28 days.

The difference is spelt out very clearly in the link I gave before:

"The doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death, and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Deaths with COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate are defined as deaths involving COVID-19. Deaths where COVID-19 is also the underlying cause of death are defined as deaths due to COVID-19."

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/deaths#deaths

1 hour ago, Robosibbo said:

i am not saying 133K, or as I have been corrected 159K of people was absolutely in my motorcycle scenario because obviously that would be ridiculous, but what I am saying how many of those poor souls of 159K would have died regardless of contracting COVID, we will never know..

We will, and we do know, but it involves some homework - it's in the ONS stats and is the difference between the "deaths due to Covid" and the "deaths involving Covid" as defined above, and that information is freely available from the ONS in the regular reports I've given links to, and the ONS have also stated that "COVID-19 was the underlying cause of majority of deaths where COVID-19 was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate in December". (their bold, as I linked to previously).

If you don't want to do the homework yourself, you can ask the ONS to do it for you:

"We do not hold analysis on the number of post-mortems completed.

However, we can create analysis on deaths involving post-mortems in 2020 and 2021 as a custom output. Such services would be subject to legal frameworks, disclosure controls, resources and agreement of costs. If you would like to request this bespoke dataset, please contact health.data@ons.gov.uk to discuss your enquiry further. Please note, there may be a charge for this work which would be subject to our charging policy."

 

1 hour ago, Robosibbo said:

.what I am saying since day 1 of this pandemic, the "media" has sensationalised as much bad an horror headlines around the world as possible and governments have listened to it....this disease is not the black plague and never will be, I totally respect at the start it was a very vicious virus for a great number of people, but as time has gone on it has drastically reduced potency to the fact that my 94 year old mother tested positive and was still able to prune plants in the garden, remember at 94. But on the other hand certain individuals, albeit in the corporate are making fortunes from this IE testing, PPE, dare I say vaccine s, so they certainly have a vested interest to keep this going as long as possible...all my personal experiences and as Whitesnake has quoted a bit to much censorship is in operation, not any specific forum but in worldwide media... anyway save the Hamsters

Understood, but what you're saying is simply wrong, and that's very clear if you only read the links you gave more carefully.

Your link, for example, claims as you did that only

10 hours ago, Stonker said:

17K have died of COVID,

based on an FOI enquiry to the ONS and their reply.  The problem is that the ONS didn't say that and the question didn't ask that.

You can find the request and the full reply here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathsandautopsiesfeb2020todec2021

The FOI request did NOT  ask how many had died "of Covid", but to "Please supply deaths caused solely by covid 19, where covid is the only cause of death listed on the death certificate, broken down by age group and gender between feb 2020 up to and including dec 2021."

Very different, as in my experience maybe only 10% of death certificates give a single cause of death - which, maybe coincidentally, is how many "deaths due to to Covid" gave it as the "only cause of death".

In their reply, the ONS did NOT say only "17k have died of Covid" as you and your article claimed misleadingly, but that "We have provided analysis on COVID-19 as the only cause of death by age and sex in England and Wales for your requested time period."

They asked for and were given a reply to one question, then quoted part of the answer as a reply to an entirely different question.

To call that "misleading" would be generous.

 

[Stardust]

13 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Because what you're saying your link says is untrue.

No you wouldn't  -  that's simply not correct, and it's a myth.

You would only have been a "Covid death" if Covid had been on your death certificate as a contributory factor, as a "cause of death", NOT because you had tested positive within the previous 28 days.

The difference is spelt out very clearly in the link I gave before:

"The doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death, and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Deaths with COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate are defined as deaths involving COVID-19. Deaths where COVID-19 is also the underlying cause of death are defined as deaths due to COVID-19."

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/deaths#deaths

We will, and we do know, but it involves some homework - it's in the ONS stats and is the difference between the "deaths due to Covid" and the "deaths involving Covid" as defined above, and that information is freely available from the ONS in the regular reports I've given links to and the ONS have also stated that "COVID-19 was the underlying cause of majority of deaths where COVID-19 was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate in December". (their bold, as I linked to previously).

If you don't want to do the homework yourself, you can ask the ONS to do it for you:

"We do not hold analysis on the number of post-mortems completed.

However, we can create analysis on deaths involving post-mortems in 2020 and 2021 as a custom output. Such services would be subject to legal frameworks, disclosure controls, resources and agreement of costs. If you would like to request this bespoke dataset, please contact health.data@ons.gov.uk to discuss your enquiry further. Please note, there may be a charge for this work which would be subject to our charging policy."

Understood, but what you're saying is simply wrong, and that's very clear if you only read the links you gave more carefully.

Your link, for example, claims as you did that only

based on an FOI enquiry to the ONS and their reply.  The problem is that the ONS didn't say that and the question didn't ask that.

You can find the request and the full reply here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathsandautopsiesfeb2020todec2021

The FOI request did NOT  ask how many had died "of Covid", but to "Please supply deaths caused solely by covid 19, where covid is the only cause of death listed on the death certificate, broken down by age group and gender between feb 2020 up to and including dec 2021."

Very different, as in my experience maybe only 10% of death certificates give a single cause of death - which, maybe coincidentally, is how many "deaths due to to Covid" gave it as the "only cause of death".

In their reply, the ONS did NOT say only "17k have died of Covid" as you and your article claimed misleadingly, but that "We have provided analysis on COVID-19 as the only cause of death by age and sex in England and Wales for your requested time period."

They asked for and were given a reply to one question, then quoted part of the answer as a reply to an entirely different question.

To call that "misleading" would be generous.

Say the one who is spreading false infos about Omicron and used the datas from the delta variants at hospitalisation and death rates.