TM30 app

[KaptainRob]

4 minutes ago, hughcow said:

My intention after getting my retirement visa was to travel around Thailand. If I need to get a copy of every tm30 at every place i stay and submit it to the IO I think i'll just travel to surrounding countries first. I believe the 90 day reporting starts from your last entry into Thailand. If i time it right I will need to do little of that also. I just have an aversion to dealing with government departments and try to do so as little as possible. It can be bad enough in Oz but Thailand takes it to a whole new level.

Upon gaining your Retirement Extension you'll be registered at a 'home' address and you should report this 'home' address online every 90 days.

Should you travel away from 'home' within Thailand there is no need to submit a TM30 elsewhere if you will returning to the 'home' address. 

The same applies if one travels o/s, no TM30 req'd if returning to the same 'home' address. And you may continue online 90 day reporting (if it falls due) while o/s briefly.  That saves starting again with a physical Immi visit.

Faz can advise you more accurately about the rules but the above is how I deal with them.

[MrStretch]

19 minutes ago, hughcow said:

My intention after getting my retirement visa was to travel around Thailand. If I need to get a copy of every tm30 at every place i stay and submit it to the IO I think i'll just travel to surrounding countries first. I believe the 90 day reporting starts from your last entry into Thailand. If i time it right I will need to do little of that also. I just have an aversion to dealing with government departments and try to do so as little as possible. It can be bad enough in Oz but Thailand takes it to a whole new level.

If you are traveling around Thailand, staying at hotels or B&Bs and your stays are temporary, then no need for the TM 30.  It's the responsibility of the property owner, anyway, not you.

You are correct in that your 90-day begins when you arrive in the country and is reset if you leave and re-enter the country.

As for your 90-day report, if you have a "permanent" domicile in Thailand, then that's not a problem, just use the online reporting system using that address and be sure not to be late.  You can't use it if you are late in reporting.

You're right about Thailand bureaucracy being on a whole different level.  It's probably the greatest industry in the country and they guard it fiercely.

[Faz]

5 hours ago, MrStretch said:

It's the responsibility of the property owner, anyway, not you.

Not if it's a residential property.

[Faz]

5 hours ago, hughcow said:

My intention after getting my retirement visa was to travel around Thailand.

I'm sure you intend to apply for a 1-year extension of stay based on retirement, a permit, not a visa.

How did you enter Thailand, when, and with or without a visa?
Do you intend to rent a private residence to return to after travelling, or, will your places of stay be temporary wherever you stay?

[MrStretch]

11 hours ago, Faz said:

Not if it's a residential property.

 

I mentioned temporary stays.

According to section 38 of the 1979 immigration act, “House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national.” - https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?p=14721

The only way he would be responsible is if he owned the residence, which wouldn't seem a temporary stay.

The rule doesn't say the foreigner is responsible for the reporting.

[Faz]

51 minutes ago, MrStretch said:

I mentioned temporary stays.

According to section 38 of the 1979 immigration act, “House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national.” - https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?p=14721

The only way he would be responsible is if he owned the residence, which wouldn't seem a temporary stay.

The rule doesn't say the foreigner is responsible for the reporting.

All aliens only have permission to 'temporary' stay in the Kingdom.

Section 38 of the Immigration Act actually states; 
Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979) ENG.pdf 

Section 38 : The house – master, the owner or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager where the alien, receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed, must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours, dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

Section 4, then defines the  'House - master', as;
“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house, whether in the capacity of owner, tenant, or in any other capacity whatsoever, in accordance with the law on people act.

It's why you'll read of foreigners being fined for failing to submit a TM30, it's just as much your responsibility as it is the owner, landlord, wife etc in private residential properties.

[Stevejm]

12 hours ago, MrStretch said:

The rule doesn't say the foreigner is responsible for the reporting

No but you have an interest in making sure that it has been done as proof of TM30 submission may be asked for when you do a 90 day report in person and when doing a 90 day report online they may check that a TM30 is in existence for the address reported. It may be worthwhile to ensure that the addresses stated in the TM30 and 90 day report are spelled exactly the same as this could cause problems if they are not identical. ( transliteration of Thai place names often varies and potentially different spellings could cause problems)

[Chatogaster]

12 hours ago, Faz said:

All aliens only have permission to 'temporary' stay in the Kingdom.

Section 38 of the Immigration Act actually states; 
Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979) ENG.pdf 

Section 38 : The house – master, the owner or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager where the alien, receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed, must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours, dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

Section 4, then defines the  'House - master', as;
“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house, whether in the capacity of owner, tenant, or in any other capacity whatsoever, in accordance with the law on people act.

It's why you'll read of foreigners being fined for failing to submit a TM30, it's just as much your responsibility as it is the owner, landlord, wife etc in private residential properties.

 

That hinges on the meaning of "chief possessor", which is a term that has no meaning except within a judges' opinion/a means to and end, since:

1. It isn't defined by the act and, 
2. Any capacity to which chief possession can be attributed (which is essential to any would-be definition of chief possession) is made a non-criterion by section 4.

In essence, the act (section 4) neuters the term "chief possessor".

Still, if someone spends some time in a residential property owned by complete strangers, it should be OK (which almost certainly is the context that MrStrech had in mind). Residing in residential property where there are actual ties might be a bit trickier, so it's not just about residential properties, but about ones where there are such ties.

 

[Chaimai]

13 hours ago, MrStretch said:

I

 

 

The rule doesn't say the foreigner is responsible for the reporting.

 

 

Hmmmm...I wonder who will pick up a fine for not reporting....

[Faz]

3 hours ago, Chatogaster said:

Still, if someone spends some time in a residential property owned by complete strangers, it should be OK (which almost certainly is the context that MrStrech had in mind). Residing in residential property where there are actual ties might be a bit trickier, so it's not just about residential properties, but about ones where there are such ties.

The Act makes it clear if you live in the household in any capacity whatsoever, whether Thai, or non-Thai, you are equally responsible to file the TM30.
It's the non-Thai that is required to use the Immigration service, and therefore the one who usually gets fined for non-compliance.

[Stevejm]

3 hours ago, Chatogaster said:

Residing in residential property where there are actual ties might be a bit trickier, so it's not just about residential properties, but about ones where there are such ties.

If you have ties to the owner of the property it would probably easier to convince them to submit the TM30. Assuming that you have a reasonable relationship with them of course

[hughcow]

17 hours ago, Stevejm said:

If you have ties to the owner of the property it would probably easier to convince them to submit the TM30. Assuming that you have a reasonable relationship with them of course

 

[hughcow]

If you were staying with a relative and they didn't acknowledge you were there technically there would be no need for a TM30. At least that is what a few long termers have told me.

[Faz]

2 hours ago, hughcow said:

If you were staying with a relative and they didn't acknowledge you were there technically there would be no need for a TM30. At least that is what a few long termers have told me.

At best, that's misleading misinformation.
We can quote the laws, rules and regulations, whether you want to comply is up to you.

[hughcow]

18 hours ago, Faz said:

At best, that's misleading misinformation.
We can quote the laws, rules and regulations, whether you want to comply is up to you.

Maybe I should have re worded it to say how would they know if you stayed there or not?

[Stevejm]

25 minutes ago, hughcow said:

Maybe I should have re worded it to say how would they know if you stayed there or not?

They would know when you submit your 90 day report wouldn’t they?

[hughcow]

As I am living on the outskirts of south Bangkok, can anyone tell me the best immigration office to attend? I now have my retirement visa which I decide to apply for in Jomtien while having a few days holiday there away from Bangkok.

On my return to Bangkok I went with the good lady Cow to Wattana IO with details of my residential address in Bangkok. The Officer noticed I had obtained my visa in Jomtien and after quizzing lady Cow why I had not applied in Bangkok, as that was where i intended to reside, she then asked lady Cow (I appeared to be non existent to the officer) where I had stayed while obtaining my visa. She told the officer the name of the hotel. Apparently no TM30 was filed. I was informed I could either go and ask the hotel for the tm30 and come back another day, or there would be an 800 baht fine. Rather than spend another 1000 baht in taxi fares and on the advice of the good lady Cow, rather than waste another day in Wattana I paid the fine.

This has shown me there are hazards in the TM30 system. Why was the officer not chasing the hotel for the TM30 rather than me if it is the hotel's responsibility? Its like sitting in the back of a Taxi and getting fined by the police because the driver was speeding.

Yes, I do realise TIT.

 

[Faz]

1 hour ago, hughcow said:

As I am living on the outskirts of south Bangkok, can anyone tell me the best immigration office to attend?

From what you posted, it sounds as though Chang Wattanna is your local IO.

1 hour ago, hughcow said:

I now have my retirement visa which I decide to apply for in Jomtien while having a few days holiday there away from Bangkok.

No, you now have a 1-year extension of stay based on retirement, a permit, not a visa.

1 hour ago, hughcow said:

On my return to Bangkok I went with the good lady Cow to Wattana IO with details of my residential address in Bangkok. The Officer noticed I had obtained my visa in Jomtien and after quizzing lady Cow why I had not applied in Bangkok, as that was where i intended to reside, she then asked lady Cow (I appeared to be non existent to the officer) where I had stayed while obtaining my visa. She told the officer the name of the hotel. Apparently no TM30 was filed. I was informed I could either go and ask the hotel for the tm30 and come back another day, or there would be an 800 baht fine. Rather than spend another 1000 baht in taxi fares and on the advice of the good lady Cow, rather than waste another day in Wattana I paid the fine.

Firstly, Jomtien should have told you to visit your own local IO.
Usually, Immigration will not accept a hotel address as being a permanent residence, even with a filed TM30.
Did an agent perhaps assist you obtaining this extension stamp?

Before you visited Jomtien, you should have filed a TM30 to register your permanent address in Bangkok with CW. A new TM30 is no longer required if returning to the same registered address after a short break at a temporary address.
If you previously filed a TM30 at CW, then the IO conned you and is 800 baht richer for the experience.

Regardless, you've now registered your permanent address with CW and that's who you should now deal with for any Immigration matters.