News Forum - Experts say Omicron variant infections widely underreported

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Agreed as far as contagion goes, but the problem I'm talking about is that unless it gives immunity it's not actually going to change anything - and all the indicators are now that it doesn't even give immunity from Omicron let alone anything else, so it's just an additional issue and not any sort of light at the end of the tunnel.

Absolutely right Stonks. I think that covid is here to stay. Omicron is less deadly than the other variants though and they are working on covid oral medicines (stop laughing at the back) which improve treatment when you are ill.

For me its going to join the ranks of colds and flu's that we face all the time.

[Stonker]

19 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

And Be Healthy. Work at improving Diet & Weight Loss. Reverse all possible Conditions.Maximize your Anti - Covid Immune System. Do not rely solely on vax.

You forgot the most important part, given that most of that isn't medically possible apart from diet and weight loss - grow younger .

[Stonker]

25 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Maximize your Anti - Covid Immune System.

 

20 minutes ago, Poolie said:

There is no anti-covid immunity without vaccine or having caught the disease. How does one maximise that?

 

18 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I think he is talking about boosting your immune system so when you catch covid your body is better prepared to fight it.

I'm sure that 'boosting your anti-Covid immune system' is what he's talking about, but unfortuantely as @Poolie rightly pointed out there's no way of doing that despite all the talk,

It's simply not physically possible without either being vaccinated or catching the disease, and the problem is that the people who need to 'maximise their anti-Covid immune system most are also the most likely to die or be seriously affected if they catch it.

Catch-22, unless you get vaxxed.

[Rookiescot]

11 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Well ... yes ... I suppose if you're dead then technically you're immune ... .

And less contagious. 

[Stonker]

22 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

And less contagious. 

Particularly after cremation ...

[Poolie]

45 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Of course there is. Before Vax only the very old and unfit with compromised immune systems, died, 0.03-05%pop. Google “immune system”.
 

 

I dont 'Google' anything. It's edited.

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, Poolie said:

I dont 'Google' anything. It's edited.

Its also illegal in China 

[vlad]

Another 1st for the UK. We in the UK are the first Country to have 150 thousand Deaths to Covid Across Europe. 

[AlexPTY]

yes, so was flu before. everyone has rapid test now and if i would test myself positive, i will surely keep it quiet and isolate, unless i have to go to hospital, that's where those numbers come from. plus all those unlucky people who got caught by the tests doing their jobs and have to comply with the requirements

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

2 hours ago, Thaiger said:

While the Omicron variant is now estimated to account for about 30% of all new Covid-19 infections in Thailand, experts believe that the actual number of cases of the strain is massively underreported.

Are these Experts the TAT statisticians  ….. Those that are used to under reporting Thai Tourist numbers

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Give it a couple of weeks and it will be safe to assume that ALL positive tests are omicron.

For a while ...

[Jason]

One thing will become apparent. Omicron spreads so fast, that PCR testing can't keep pace and Rapid Antigen Tests will be in short supply. The government's health authorities will be flying blind.

[Stonker]

27 minutes ago, vlad said:

Another 1st for the UK. We in the UK are the first Country to have 150 thousand Deaths to Covid Across Europe. 

That was probably past a while ago, as around 20,000 deaths in the early stages in care homes weren't counted.

[Jason]

I say that from a country where Omicron is a few weeks ahead of where it is in Thailand. Take note....because the future is being lived by other countries before you. You have the benefit of their experience....use it!

[Rookiescot]

41 minutes ago, vlad said:

Another 1st for the UK. We in the UK are the first Country to have 150 thousand Deaths to Covid Across Europe. 

What did people expect when they put Johnson in charge.

[Chatogaster]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

Agreed as far as contagion goes, but the problem I'm talking about is that unless it gives immunity it's not actually going to change anything - and all the indicators are now that it doesn't even give immunity from Omicron let alone anything else, so it's just an additional issue and not any sort of light at the end of the tunnel.

 

It's hard to imagine that all [how many?] indicators point at it [Omicron?] preventing future Omicron-[re-?]infections let alone anything else [Beta? Delta? Future variants?].

There aren't many studies available (unsurprising given the timeline), and I don't know of a single one pointing at Omicron having no detrimental effect on other variants.

On the other hand, at least one study concluded that an Omicron infection enhances neutralizing immunity against the Delta variant ("https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-28/omicron-may-reduce-delta-infections-south-african-study-shows" links to the paper). That would contribute to Omicron not just becoming dominant, but an actual displacement. Also, Omicron could act as an immunity booster that doesn't care about people's pro/antivax-beliefs and doesn't come with the hassle (and duration) of vaccination logistics.

Having said that, I'm all for keeping up & improving the vaccination efforts - including boosters - because it carries less immediate uncertainties (regarding e.g. hospitalization capacity).
 

 

[Zorba_the_Geek]

2 hours ago, Fluke said:

No , once you get natural immunity , you are covered for life .

Once you begin taking vaccinations, you need to continue taking them for life 

Where did you get your MD then? Asking for a five year old.

[Stonker]

39 minutes ago, Chatogaster said:

It's hard to imagine that all [how many?] indicators point at it [Omicron?] preventing future Omicron-[re-?]infections let alone anything else [Beta? Delta? Future variants?].

There aren't many studies available (unsurprising given the timeline), and I don't know of a single one pointing at Omicron having no detrimental effect on other variants.

On the other hand, at least one study concluded that an Omicron infection enhances neutralizing immunity against the Delta variant ("https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-28/omicron-may-reduce-delta-infections-south-african-study-shows" links to the paper). That would contribute to Omicron not just becoming dominant, but an actual displacement. Also, Omicron could act as an immunity booster that doesn't care about people's pro/antivax-beliefs and doesn't come with the hassle (and duration) of vaccination logistics.

Having said that, I'm all for keeping up & improving the vaccination efforts - including boosters - because it carries less immediate uncertainties (regarding e.g. hospitalization capacity).
 

Lots of "could"s - unfortunately so far there's no evidence at all for any of it, and a lot of people are counting a lot of unhatched chickens.

[Chatogaster]

17 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Lots of "could"s - unfortunately so far there's no evidence at all for any of it, and a lot of people are counting a lot of unhatched chickens.

 

There's 1 "could", but I'll grant you 1½  because of a "would". Still, I don't see how that translates into "many".
If by no evidence you (must) include the evidence I submitted (link and all), I'd much rather read your reasons for dismissing it rather than your apparent conclusion.

It's (very) easy to opinionate about Omicron. It's much harder to come to solid or even tentative conclusions based on objective analyses. The eggs may not have hatched yet, but the hen is allowed to be on the optimistic side.

 

[Rain]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Absolutely right Stonks. I think that covid is here to stay. Omicron is less deadly than the other variants though and they are working on covid oral medicines (stop laughing at the back) which improve treatment when you are ill.

For me its going to join the ranks of colds and flu's that we face all the time.

One might even suggest that this was the case regarding Beta and it's variant offspring over the last couple of years - little to be shown but varying levels of colds and influenza. The logical comparative ratio of numbers might tell you this. Still holding at 98.2 percent. 

Yet, the end is near scenario was repeated often and loud enough for their proposed fantasies to become real. Sucked in, we were. 

The more important questions that should be pondered is what are they gonna do when, eventually, the dreaded Covid Cooties peters out - as viruses have been known to do by natural cycle.

[Rookiescot]

25 minutes ago, Rain said:

One might even suggest that this was the case regarding Beta and it's variant offspring over the last couple of years - little to be shown but varying levels of colds and influenza. The logical comparative ratio of numbers might tell you this. Still holding at 98.2 percent. 

Yet, the end is near scenario was repeated often and loud enough for their proposed fantasies to become real. Sucked in, we were. 

The more important questions that should be pondered is what are they gonna do when, eventually, the dreaded Covid Cooties peters out - as viruses have been known to do by natural cycle.

Beta was far more deadly than either the Wuhan or Alpha variant.

The rest of your post is pure conspiracy theory and shouldn't be posted here.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Chatogaster said:

There's 1 "could", but I'll grant you 1½  because of a "would". Still, I don't see how that translates into "many".
If by no evidence you (must) include the evidence I submitted (link and all), I'd much rather read your reasons for dismissing it rather than your apparent conclusion.

It's (very) easy to opinionate about Omicron. It's much harder to come to solid or even tentative conclusions based on objective analyses. The eggs may not have hatched yet, but the hen is allowed to be on the optimistic side.

Sorry, I umbrella'd 'could','may', 'would' and the '?'s together.

As far as I know that's the only study, it's not been peer reviewed, it only included 33 people including vaccinated and unvaccinated, it wasn't clear as far as I could see if any of them had already had Delta or not and it only measured antibodies not T-cell counts or real world resistance.

Most off-putting, though was the conclusion:

"If we are lucky, Omicron is less pathogenic, and this immunity will help push Delta out.”

Any paper that says "if we are lucky" doesn't really inspire much confidence .

It's fine being  optimistic, but I'm a believer in hoping for the best but preparing for the worst, not counting on being "lucky" and waiting until it all turns pear-shaped.

[js89]

6 hours ago, Fluke said:

No , once you get natural immunity , you are covered for life .

Once you begin taking vaccinations, you need to continue taking them for life 

This is absolutely and verifiably not correct. Immunity from prior infection wanes fairly rapidly.

Futhermore, prior infection with delta confers almost no immunity to Omicron. The reverse is not the case, however and initial indications are that infection with omicron causes the host to develop antibodies that are strongly reactive to delta. 

[js89]

Anecdotally, I'd argue that the percentage of Omicron infections in Bangkok is much higher. Certainly, among people I know in BKK, there has been a recent spate of infections where people are testing positive within a 2.5 to 3 day window from a known exposure event and where symptoms are mild, mostly just a bit of a sore throat and notable for the absence of any fever.

[js89]

6 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

they are working on covid oral medicines (stop laughing at the back) which improve treatment when you are ill.

This is a fantastic development, although it's yet to be seen if the virus will develop resistance to the antivirals over time.

Pfizer's drug, Paxlovid, is a protease inhibitor very similar to the suite of HIV protease inhibitors (HIV is also an RNA virus) that form current front-line treatment. We know already that HIV rapidly develops resistance in patients who do not take the treatment regularly.

Hopefully this won't occur with Covid as the infection should, one hopes, be cleared rapidly enough that the virus won't have time to go through many replication cycles and develop resistance as is the case with HIV.

Edited January 9, 2022 by js89