New football competition - Interested?

[Faz]

As suggested in another topic, an idea for a further football competition.
Actually two games in mind although only the most popular likely to be played.
It's proposed one of these game will be played in addition to the current FPL and LPS competitions.

Looking for feed back on those interested and 'which' of the two suggestions is more popular.

First proposed game.
Each week players predict the fixture results, either home (1), away (2), draw (X).
1 point for correctly predicting a home win, 2 points for an away win, 3 points for a draw.

 

E.G. Week No. xx predictions.

Arsenal v Brentford              1
Aston Villa v Watford            1
Brighton v Burnley                X
Crystal Palace v Chelsea      2
Leeds v Man Utd                   2
Liverpool v Norwich             1
Man City v Spurs                   1
Southampton v Everton      X
West Ham v Newcastle        1
Wolves v Leicester               X

Points are totalled for each weeks fixtures forecast for each member, with total points accumulated being transferred to a leader board. 0 points for postponed games, members participate in each round of fixtures.

Second proposed game.
Another game on a similar theme but more of a challenge.
Predict not only the correct result (home, away, draw), but also the score.

E.G. Week No. xx predictions.

Arsenal v Brentford              2-0
Aston Villa v Watford            2-1
Brighton v Burnley                1-1
Crystal Palace v Chelsea       0-2
Leeds v Man Utd                   1-3
Liverpool v Norwich             3-0
Man City v Spurs                   2-1
Southampton v Everton      1-1
West Ham v Newcastle       3-1
Wolves v Leicester               2-2

10 points if you get the result correct (home, win, draw) + 30 bonus points for correctly predicting the exact score.
(40 points if both the result and score match).

Points are totalled for each weeks fixtures forecast for each member, with total points accumulated being transferred to a leader board. 0 points for postponed games, members participate in each round of fixtures.

 

Ideally requires at least 10 participants to make the game worthwhile - interested?
Which game?

 

[BigHewer]

10 minutes ago, Faz said:

Ideally requires at least 10 participants to make the game worthwhile - interested?
Which game?

Great ideas, Faz. I like the second game, it will probably generate a bit of banter. Same scoring system as Lawro's Predictions on the BBC. But both are good. I'm happy with whatever the consensus is.

[Faz]

14 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

Great ideas, Faz. I like the second game, it will probably generate a bit of banter. Same scoring system as Lawro's Predictions on the BBC. But both are good. I'm happy with whatever the consensus is.

Yes, first game is very similar to the current LPS game, other than members participate each week.
My preference is for the second game as it involves more skill in predicting not only the result, but the exact score.

[King Cotton]

48 minutes ago, Faz said:

1 hour ago, BigHewer said:

Great ideas, Faz. I like the second game, it will probably generate a bit of banter. Same scoring system as Lawro's Predictions on the BBC. But both are good. I'm happy with whatever the consensus is.

Yes, first game is very similar to the current LPS game, other than members participate each week.
My preference is for the second game as it involves more skill in predicting not only the result, but the exact score.

Same here, i.e. second game, and for the same reasoning. Let's give it a whirl!

[GMoney2312]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

Which game?

The second game sound interesting.

Both are great- nice work!

[JohninDublin]

Sorry to come to the convo so late. 

I like the idea behind both games as well as increased skill requirement. However, what concerns me is that with players making ten selections per week, that is 10 times the work on data entry and then checking. We've seen that I do make mistakes, and that players spot these even when it involves other players, which I regard as the "fail-safe". I am not sure that mistakes will not be made, and then escape detection.

Put it simply, someone has to enter, assuming 10 players, the 100 predictions coming in bit by bit in 10 posts and then check and award points for each player. That's 200 entries a week that need to be dealt with. That is without publishing any interim tables.

Of the two suggestions, both cause the same probs for scorekeeping. However, the 1-2-X version is easier to manage as there are only three outcomes. But once you get looking at correct scores, 0-0 1-0 2-0 3-0, the options are unlimited as well as requiring greater accuracy.

One possible way to get around this, is to use the system adopted on pub quiz nights, where we mark each others entries, and then just report the points for each player that can then be tabled.

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

Yes, first game is very similar to the current LPS game, other than members participate each week.
 

I think it's definitely important to have a game which allows weekly participation for all.

[Faz]

16 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

Put it simply, someone has to enter, assuming 10 players, the 100 predictions coming in bit by bit in 10 posts and then check and award points for each player. That's 200 entries a week that need to be dealt with. That is without publishing any interim tables.

I wouldn't suggest it John if I wasn't prepared to administrate it.
 

[Marble-eye]

13 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

I think it's definitely important to have a game which allows weekly participation for all.

John I suspect it would not be unheard of players going a whole season without predicting a correct score, would this make for loss of interest on game 2 for players?

[Dedinbed]

Looks not dissimilar to the quicklist I do sometimes in the bookies so my cat reckons Faz shall hence forth now be known as Fazzy Power .. 

[BigHewer]

54 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

Put it simply, someone has to enter, assuming 10 players, the 100 predictions coming in bit by bit in 10 posts and then check and award points for each player. That's 200 entries a week that need to be dealt with. That is without publishing any interim tables.

Of the two suggestions, both cause the same probs for scorekeeping. However, the 1-2-X version is easier to manage as there are only three outcomes. But once you get looking at correct scores, 0-0 1-0 2-0 3-0, the options are unlimited as well as requiring greater accuracy.

One possible way to get around this, is to use the system adopted on pub quiz nights, where we mark each others entries, and then just report the points for each player that can then be tabled.

A lot of stats to manage and put out, I would be concerned for anyone managing that.

The FPL scores are calculated and managed off-site, so there is no margin for error or dispute about scoring.

Another option for this competition could be to use the Superbru site to manage the scores in a private Thaiger Talk League: https://www.superbru.com/premierleague_predictor/ - easy set up, very little work. Worth considering.

 

[King Cotton]

12 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

A lot of stats to manage and put out, I would be concerned for anyone managing that.

The FPL scores are calculated and managed off-site, so there is no margin for error or dispute about scoring.

Another option for this competition could be to use the Superbru site to manage the scores in a private Thaiger Talk League: https://www.superbru.com/premierleague_predictor/ - easy set up, very little work. Worth considering.

Yes, good for everybody . . . no in-house admin. pressures and the top-fun of score prediction, too . . . looks good!

[Faz]

39 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

John I suspect it would not be unheard of players going a whole season without predicting a correct score, would this make for loss of interest on game 2 for players?

If your going to try and predict the result, why not the score as well.
Predicting a correct score gets you an additional 30 bonus points.

The game is based on Lawro's predictions from the BBC as @BigHewer previously stated.
It's rare that nobody predicts any correct scores in a game week, but it can happen as in this weeks competition so far. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59828379

 

Premier League predictions - week 21
	Result	Lawro	Dan
SATURDAY, 1 JANUARY
Arsenal v Man City	1-2	0-3	0-2
Leicester v Norwich	P-P	P-P	P-P
Watford v Tottenham	0-1	0-2	1-2
Crystal Palace v West Ham	2-3	1-1	2-2
SUNDAY, 2 JANUARY
Brentford v Aston Villa	2-1	1-2	1-2
Everton v Brighton	2-3	1-1	0-1
Leeds v Burnley	3-1	2-1	0-0
Southampton v Newcastle	P-P	P-P	P-P
Chelsea v Liverpool	2-2	1-1	2-3
MONDAY, 3 JANUARY
Man Utd v Wolves	x-x	2-0	2-1

So far this week Lawro has 40 points, with 4 correct fixture results.
Dan 30 points, with 3 correct fixture results.
No correct score results so far this week.

 

[Dedinbed]

1 hour ago, JohninDublin said:

where we mark each others entries,

Me and my mate were invited to play golf in Spain back in the day but neither of us had ever picked up a good bat before .. bloody awful don't do us justice and the rest of the group moved on ahead as we were taking swings .. but back at the clubhouse our display didn't look too bad as we had been marking each other's card on the - 3 principle .. that is if my mate took 6 swings I'd mark it as 3 and he would oblige for me .. oddly neither of us got a hole in one that day though .. 

[JohninDublin]

2 hours ago, Faz said:

I wouldn't suggest it John if I wasn't prepared to administrate it.
 

I don't want put a spoiler on it, but to give you some idea, if you look back through the score sheets, you can see after 13 rounds the file has gone from 12kb to 14kb. I estimate that either new game, apart from the data entry probs, will add about 6kb to the file, and in a few weeks, trying to manage an audit trail, will become very unwieldy.

If players are prepared to mark each others scores, then my job becomes very simple and manageable, and I can manage both games you propose without much effort. All it would require is say @Dedinbed mark @Slacker77and they each advise me of how many points were scored and that's all I have to enter.

I sent both yourself and @BigHewera couple of suggested formats. As they were in a PM I won't discuss them here, but if the players are prepared to mark each others scores for your proposed games, I think it would not be too difficult to run all four games, and the good thing about it is participation is possible every week.

 

[JohninDublin]

2 hours ago, Marble-eye said:

John I suspect it would not be unheard of players going a whole season without predicting a correct score, would this make for loss of interest on game 2 for players?

Just for once, it's not about the winning, but being able to play every week that we are trying to fix.

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, BigHewer said:

A lot of stats to manage and put out, I would be concerned for anyone managing that.

The FPL scores are calculated and managed off-site, so there is no margin for error or dispute about scoring.

Another option for this competition could be to use the Superbru site to manage the scores in a private Thaiger Talk League: https://www.superbru.com/premierleague_predictor/ - easy set up, very little work. Worth considering.

Thanks. I'll take a look at that when I've got a bit of time. Of course nobody is stating the obvious: It does not have to be administered by me.

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, Dedinbed said:

Me and my mate were invited to play golf in Spain back in the day but neither of us had ever picked up a good bat before .. bloody awful don't do us justice and the rest of the group moved on ahead as we were taking swings .. but back at the clubhouse our display didn't look too bad as we had been marking each other's card on the - 3 principle .. that is if my mate took 6 swings I'd mark it as 3 and he would oblige for me .. oddly neither of us got a hole in one that day though .. 

In so many great plans, there is often an unexpected flaw. If you were only scoring half the strokes and one of you got a hole in once, how would you explain that in the clubhouse.

[King Cotton]

21 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

Thanks. I'll take a look at that when I've got a bit of time. Of course nobody is stating the obvious: It does not have to be administered by me.

Maybe you've completely missed this earlier @Faz post . . .

3 hours ago, Faz said:

3 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

Put it simply, someone has to enter, assuming 10 players, the 100 predictions coming in bit by bit in 10 posts and then check and award points for each player. That's 200 entries a week that need to be dealt with. That is without publishing any interim tables.

I wouldn't suggest it John if I wasn't prepared to administrate it.

Just trying to help clarify matters, since there does seem to be some need for that .

[JohninDublin]

17 minutes ago, King Cotton said:

Maybe you've completely missed this earlier @Faz post . . .

Just trying to help clarify matters, since there does seem to be some need for that .

With all due respect to @FazI like the ideas and I don't want see them abandoned in their original form because it makes my contribution difficult. I have suggested a way to keep it going with modifications. Alternatively, is someone is prepared to follow Faz's plan to the letter, I can draw up an Excel template for them to use.

[King Cotton]

23 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

With all due respect to @FazI like the ideas and I don't want see them abandoned in their original form because it makes my contribution difficult. I have suggested a way to keep it going with modifications. Alternatively, is someone is prepared to follow Faz's plan to the letter, I can draw up an Excel template for them to use.

Thanks, John. The ball is now back in Faz's court.

[Dedinbed]

2 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

All it would require is say @Dedinbed mark @Slacker77and they each advise me of how many points were scored and that's all I have to enter.

Cool .. should be able to manage that .. just to let any prospective pair'ee know I am open to inducements but no fake Rolex's please .. 

[Dedinbed]

2 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

In so many great plans, there is often an unexpected flaw.

Plans .! Plans .! You are giving us far too much credit there John .. 

[BigHewer]

So how many competitions do we want to have running in 2022/23?

FPL - run by me (or rather run by noone as it’s off-site)

LPS - run by @JohninDublin

WLD/BBC - run by @Faz

and ??

[King Cotton]

I'd welcome just one more addition, either on the lines of @Faz's 2nd proposal or the internet-hosted Superbru game that @BigHewermentioned earlier. The former would, of course, require Faz's admin input and assuming he's happy at that prospect, either of these routes may well be worth following.