News Forum - Royal Thai Air Force seeks to buy F-35 jets for at least 18 billion baht

[Stonker]

25 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Are you trying to say that the UK pilots are far superior? Ýou might have a basis for comparison but more than likely your views are only a reflection of your snobbery. 

Get a life, with proper training in US, they'll be good to go. 

The Americans have crashed three (not counting the one which just burst into flames but including the one which collided with the KC-130 it was to refuel from), the Japanese one (which hasn't been recovered), and the British one as it took off from HMS Queen Elizabeth which was rather embarrasingly leaked on video.

 

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

4 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Americans have crashed three

And the Thais still want to buy 8 ….. to replace their F5, one of which the crashed last month …. 
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2226511/air-force-jet-crashes-during-tactical-operations-competition

That article showed a discrepancy though on how much they have budgeted for Air Force jet replacement ….. in 30 days look at Thai inflation …. Gone from …..

The air force plans to upgrade its F-5 fighter jets next year with a budget of about 3.2 billion baht.

to

2.7 billion baht each, 8 planes would set Thailand back nearly 22 billion baht.

looks like they have only budgeted for the jet they crashed!

[Sgtsabai]

I have some faith left that American military and intelligence operatives, not much mind you, will never allow China Thailand to purchase anything with updated electronics. China already stole all it needed about the design etc. of the no-fly, no fight, no bomb piece of junk F-35 many years ago. I would think though they would love to get their hands on one. I do agree Thailand needs new aircraft, perhaps A-10's and maybe somewhat upgraded F-16's or F-15's. 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

That article showed a discrepancy though on how much they have budgeted for Air Force jet replacement ….. in 30 days look at Thai inflation …. Gone from …..

The air force plans to upgrade its F-5 fighter jets next year with a budget of about 3.2 billion baht.

to

2.7 billion baht each, 8 planes would set Thailand back nearly 22 billion baht.

looks like they have only budgeted for the jet they crashed!

No, the 3.2 billion is to upgrade the remaining F-5's with German IRIS-T and Israeli Python 4 missiles, Italian radar and smart bombs, in line with Gripen 39's, as they've done with some already. The overall budget for that (2019 - 2022) was 5.2 billion baht.

The 22 billion baht is to buy the new F-35's.

[Stonker]

52 minutes ago, Sgtsabai said:

I do agree Thailand needs new aircraft, perhaps A-10's and maybe somewhat upgraded F-16's or F-15's. 

 

Agreed 100%.

Exactly what America is now saying it needs instead of F-35's, going back to gen 4 and 5 rather than gen 6!

A-10's are now being re-winged and will stay in service for at least another ten years, if not twenty, and they cost $20 million each (admittedly a few decades ago!)  - and having been supported by some I know which I'd prefer to give me air cover.

[Pinetree]

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

Thai pilots, if trained, are perfectly capable of flying F 35's - particularly as so few are required.They've managed to keep most of the assorted planes they've got in the air just as well as anyone else - and better than some, given their aircrafts' age and limited flying time due to costs - an F-35 costs $44,000 per hour just to fly.

They certainly don't need them, though, and the biggest problem is simply that they're just not particularly good aircraft even according to the Americans and not able to do what they were intended to.

"To say the F-35 has failed to deliver on its goals would be an understatement. Its mission capable rate is 69 percent, below the 80 percent benchmark set by the military. 36 percent of the F-35 fleet is available for any required mission, well below the required 50 percent standard. Current and ongoing problems include faster than expected engine wear, transparency delamination of the cockpit, and unspecified problems with the F-35’s power module."

"There have been so many problems with the F-35, it’s difficult even to summarize them. Pilot blackouts, premature part failures, software development disasters, and more have all figured in various documents over the years. Firing the main gun can crack the plane. The Air Force has already moved to buy new F-15EX aircraft. Multiple partner nations that once promised F-35 buys have shifted orders to other planes."

"The F-35 is a Ferrari, Brown [USAF Chief of Staff Gen. Charles Brown Jr] told reporters last Wednesday. “You don’t drive your Ferrari to work every day, you only drive it on Sundays. This is our ‘high end’ [fighter], we want to make sure we don’t use it all for the low-end fight. I want to moderate how much we’re using those aircraft,” Brown said. ”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/02/23/the-us-air-force-just-admitted-the-f-35-stealth-fighter-has-failed/?sh=4ec5adbb1b16

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/320295-the-us-air-force-quietly-admits-the-f-35-is-a-failure

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/305600-the-f-35-is-still-broken-and-the-f-35a-cant-shoot-straight

If the commander of the American Air Force says openly that they're not suitable for a "low-end fight" and general use, I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that they're not much use to Thailand - just toys for the boys.

There is a fundamental and massive difference between flying around in a military jet of any kind and using it to its full fighting potential.  I stand by my comment that Thai pilots, bar probably a very few, are incapable of bridging that gap, at least that is what I see at my local military airfield, what I have read through the social media military grapevine and what I observed myself, first hand, albeit many years ago. Its not them, per see, its the lack of appropriate training, maintenance competence and hours airborne. 

[Stonker]

18 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

I stand by my comment that Thai pilots, bar probably a very few, are incapable of bridging that gap, at least that is what I see at my local military airfield, what I have read through the social media military grapevine and what I observed myself, first hand, albeit many years ago. Its not them, per see, its the lack of appropriate training, maintenance competence and hours airborne. 

Aaah ..... thank you. I now see what your view is based on.

... and if they only have eight F-35's, they only need "a very few" pilots to fly them . That's why all Air Force pilots, anywhere, are streamed to aircraft they're suited to fly (fast jets, transport, hels, etc).

[Poolie]

Can you all calm down? Thailand hasn't reached the stage of a formal proposal put to the Government yet to buy anything, let alone sold anything on.

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

12 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Can you all calm down? Thailand hasn't reached the stage of a formal proposal put to the Government yet to buy anything, let alone sold anything on.

Here Here …. If they don’t buy this year, it will be an interesting item on the Thai election ticket in 2023

[Paco]

So because they discounted  let's buy the nonsense that we not really need anyway,  is the army going to war or something ? No then why they need them.. use the money to support your own people instead of the military nonsense crap there should not even be something like that in the entire world...

[Changnam43]

1.  The Americans will not sell the F35 to Thailand

2.  I don't think Prayuth is dumb enough to sign off on this

 

[Bifrost]

Who should fly them ? it needs a skilfull intilligent pilot..     give them spitfires. .  

[Bifrost]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

Agreed 100%.

Exactly what America is now saying it needs instead of F-35's, going back to gen 4 and 5 rather than gen 6!

A-10's are now being re-winged and will stay in service for at least another ten years, if not twenty, and they cost $20 million each (admittedly a few decades ago!)  - and having been supported by some I know which I'd prefer to give me air cover.

A 10 is a cool cool plane Ic seen them in training here in scandinavia . love that plane

[Bifrost]

3 hours ago, Stonker said:

The Americans have crashed three (not counting the one which just burst into flames but including the one which collided with the KC-130 it was to refuel from), the Japanese one (which hasn't been recovered), and the British one as it took off from HMS Queen Elizabeth which was rather embarrasingly leaked on video.

RAF pilots are excelelnt pilots. but the F 35 is a crap .  - bad performance stealth ? not  - the russian SAM 400  can detect any so called stealth figther, ,  unfortainetly and in a conflicht with  russian we wil  NATO stand with bad cards . .  sad to say ,, , 

[anarchofarmer]

Aside from the above detailed depiction of how useless the plane is, I seem to remember that though the overpaid manufactures said it was really stealthy it lit up the Russian anti-aircraft systems like a Christmas tree!

[Rain]

Why...?

[Pinetree]

2 hours ago, Poolie said:

Can you all calm down? Thailand hasn't reached the stage of a formal proposal put to the Government yet to buy anything, let alone sold anything on.

Its a forum, it all about over reaction to fake or new news. 

[Pinetree]

1 hour ago, Bifrost said:

Who should fly them ? it needs a skilfull intilligent pilot..     give them spitfires. .  

Haha , Spitfires are not, were not, exactly the easiest planes to master. A few Cessna 172s would be much more useful here. 

[Donald]

Defense from who ? Anyone interested in invading Thailand ? I wonder what could be done with 18 billion Baht ? Maybe support the people that lost their livelihoods because of the corona measures, healthcare, education and so many other worthy causes. I don't know why they have to call it a defense issue. They should revert to the old way when it was called the war ministry which was much more accurate then the term ministry of defense.

[ThaiEyes]

18+ billion baht would buy a lot of varied-type drones that any kid could learn how to use. Much cheaper maintenance too. Maybe they could’ve them to help patrol the borders since the army and immigration seems horribly inept at control on that front.

[Rain]

5 hours ago, Poolie said:

Can you all calm down? Thailand hasn't reached the stage of a formal proposal put to the Government yet to buy anything, let alone sold anything on.

Some become slobbery, misty eyed and romantic as it applies to anything militarism.

[Poolie]

10 minutes ago, Rain said:

Some become slobbery, misty eyed and romantic as it applies to anything militarism.

And see them pesky commies involved.....despite being at war with some poor destitute country for all but 25 years of their existence..

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Poolie said:

And see them pesky commies involved.....despite being at war with some poor destitute country for all but 25 years of their existence..

Naturally.

[oldschooler]

Thailand don’t need any military at all as they have no enemies.

Used only for show, killing civilian protesters,not stopping the southern insurgency and corrupt arms deals.

That money must be spent lifting ten million Thais out of Poverty.

No one is selling Thailand any super complex western subs or planes that will end up destroyed or in China within weeks.

 Complete Disgrace & Humiliation for Thailand to proceed with this Madness.

[Bangkok_Gary]

Massive numbers of people in the tourist industry are unemployed and the government is going to blow a big wad of money on 8 jets ?????