News Forum - Is the new Boeing 737 Max safe to fly? A new book makes you wonder.

[Fundok]

8 hours ago, Cabra said:

Boeing has my vote of no confidence

I'll second that vote!

[Jappy]

Excellent article.

Very detailed ... and very scary ...

[Cathat]

One thing's for sure,if one more max falls out of the sky for any reason it will probably be the end of the commercial aircraft division of boeing for good.3 strikes and your out!

 

[sprez33]

Yawn!  More fear porn for the uniformed masses.......

[Bangkok_Gary]

The 737 design is 58 years old. It's beyond obsolete. !!

[Changnam43]

38 minutes ago, sprez33 said:

Yawn!  More fear porn for the uniformed masses.......

Not really fear porn. 

There is plenty of choice when it comes plane types.  My informed choice is to avoid the 737 Max and that is easy to do.

[Rookiescot]

If any other company had behaved the way Boeing has it would be out of business by now.

[sprez33]

1 hour ago, Changnam43 said:

Not really fear porn. 

There is plenty of choice when it comes plane types.  My informed choice is to avoid the 737 Max and that is easy to do.

Stupid is as stupid does....

[Time_to_live]

It's not just the bean counters fault that this flying catastrophe was ever made.  There were engineers and engineering "Managers" that had meetings talking about (and documenting) risk analysis that clearly must have shown these monsters would crash with several types of faults.  If anything feeding their crappy software system or anything faulted in the computer running the crappy software failed - then these flights were doomed unless the pilots had training and capability to shut down the system.  Pilots shouldn't have to battle a faulted software system that is there only to cover up a badly balanced plane.  Unthinkable.  There are engineers that must be hiding because of their role in letting this disaster fly.  There are engineering managers that belong in jail for their role in saying, "ya, we can fix this with software."  And the bean counters...they belong in hell. 

[Artemis080]

On 12/30/2021 at 8:44 AM, HiuMak said:

A little is still hiding, telling half truth is still unacceptable. Ban this airline

I won't fly a 737, but what I will fly is an airline which is solvent, has one of the most impressive safety records, and maintains aircraft and pilot competance properly especially in the last 2 years.

There are plenty of airlines that really don't deserve to be operating. Thai for a starter.

[Fanta]

Qantas operates 75 x 737s and their safety record isn’t too bad. Writing off Boeing Aircraft based on 2 accidents is worthy of a movie. Go figure… I don’t need to watch this movie, the article told me all I need to know about it. 

[Rookiescot]

41 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Qantas operates 75 x 737s and their safety record isn’t too bad. Writing off Boeing Aircraft based on 2 accidents is worthy of a movie. Go figure… I don’t need to watch this movie, the article told me all I need to know about it. 

They shut down Concord after losing one aircraft because it ran over something which fell off a, wait for it, Boeing. 

[sprez33]

13 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

They shut down Concord after losing one aircraft because it ran over something which fell off a, wait for it, Boeing. 

The Concorde was a huge money loser and BA and AF were looking for an excuse to shut it down.

[Cadett767]

I checked the film and it looked to me that both pilots had “runaway trim” which in itself is fairly easy for experienced pilots to deal with in an airplane that is not a Max. I don’t know whether this check list emergency would apply to the 737 Max. But disabling the electric and hydraulic trim (on the throttle quadrant) switches and using the manual trim wheels to fly the airplane manually, declare an emergency and land asap would have been the order of the day.

However I still don’t know whether or not this same emergency item would have applied to the 737 Max.

[KT50]

As a professional pilot, and having flown Boeing and Airbus products, I am appalled by what has happened to Boeing via pure evil greed.  I honestly believe the upper echelon of Boeing should be in prison for murder.  I have flown several variants of the B-737, however, not the MAX.  The pilots I know who do fly it, absolutely love it.  In my humble yet professional opinion, with proper Pilot training and maintenance, this aircraft will serve the flying public well.  I am far more inclined to not fly on specific airlines in the world via the quality of their pilot training, regardless of the aircraft.  So AA, SWA, UAL, most European airlines, some Asian and South American Airlines, I would certainly fly on a 737Max.  Singapore Airlines for sure.  They have world class pilot training standards.  Not all airlines do, and that alone determines my go/no go decision, not the aircraft type.  So if you wish to skip the flights served by the Max on the airlines I fly on, I say thank you. It frees up more seats for me and my family. 

[KT50]

On 12/29/2021 at 6:08 PM, whitesnake said:

A plane with MCAS! "A mind of its own!" Like playing passenger Russian Roulette with a very large and deadly gun!! GOOD LUCK IF YOU FLY ON ONE....maybe a case for writing your last will & testament though before you fly!!!!!! 

Are you aware that ALL airbus aircraft only allow conventional control by the pilot from the ground to 50 feet?  Above 50 feet, the Airbus basically operates in an MCAS, “mind of its own,” state all the time.  Please, a little research will save you from such embarrassing comments. 

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, KT50 said:

Are you aware that ALL airbus aircraft only allow conventional control by the pilot from the ground to 50 feet?  Above 50 feet, the Airbus basically operates in an MCAS, “mind of its own,” state all the time.  Please, a little research will save you from such embarrassing comments. 

Is it still correct that pilots have to do a certain number of "manual" take offs and landings per year?

Genuine question. Not trying to trip anyone up. 

[Cathat]

13 hours ago, Cadett767 said:

I checked the film and it looked to me that both pilots had “runaway trim” which in itself is fairly easy for experienced pilots to deal with in an airplane that is not a Max. I don’t know whether this check list emergency would apply to the 737 Max. But disabling the electric and hydraulic trim (on the throttle quadrant) switches and using the manual trim wheels to fly the airplane manually, declare an emergency and land asap would have been the order of the day.

However I still don’t know whether or not this same emergency item would have applied to the 737 Max.

Think the commander of the first hull loss was thinking along the lines of trim runaway and pulled the electric trim trip but the rollercoaster ride continued anyway.

On the sector prior to the accident a similar event took place in the cruise and the crew saved the day and recorded the event in the tech log.

Not much seems to be in the public domain about what they did to pull off the save.

A very experienced commander was jump seating and he probably paid an important part in the safe completion of the sector.

I suspect they may have disconnected the auto pilot and auto thrust also but don't know for sure.

 

[Passenger1]

10 seconds to act! 

This particular plane is still a mish mash,from what I have gathered, but flying is still obviously the safest way to travel. 

[butterfly]

unfortunately, they had 2 crash in less than 1 year, which was statistically never seen before, and that's how they got caught with their lies

[Thommo]

How Dennis Muilenbrg (along with many other boeing and FAA people) is still free to walk this earth and not incarserated is beyond me.

 

[HiuMak]

On 2/20/2022 at 8:23 AM, Bangkok_Gary said:

The 737 design is 58 years old. It's beyond obsolete. !!

OMG

[KT50]

Yes, pilots in the US must have 3 takeoffs and 3 landings in any consecutive 90 days.  Some or all can be auto landings vs manual.  However, like myself, most of us are forced to do auto lands periodically, because we kind of enjoy flying.  

[HansCS]

I have been following the 737MAX fiasco since the beginning, but I learned a few new things about the scope of how uncontrollable the aircraft really were watching the documentary, it's a very good documentary. How someone could just add an afterthought bandaid of a feedback control system (MCAS) to the flight controls of an aircraft with that much elevator authority, that only takes 1 malfunctioning sensor to make the feedback control system go full open loop and continuously pitch the nose into the ground is mind boggling to me. Boeing has lost all of my respect, this is what happens when companies become obsessed with making Wall Street happy, and nothing else matters. Boeing management should have been criminally prosecuted. 

[butterfly]

there was a criminal prosecution process, but they settled instead for $2.1b, and the charges were dropped