News Forum - Escaped Israeli officially cleared of Covid-19, now faces prosecution

[Georgealexmate]

8 minutes ago, Lawyers_Guns_and_Money said:

I am in the United States and am not planning on going to Thailand until they drop the test on arrival. So I haven't been spending too much time looking at EU or recovery certificate criteria. Too many moving targets to keep an eye on.

Ok i understand i need to go now since not many good options away from Denmark cold so good as Thailand for me

[JohninDublin]

5 hours ago, Graham said:

Yep it certainly looks like very dubious results in Thailand, how many others are currently sitting in quarantine or hospital with false results, everyone knows they are robbing people blind with these tests and the fact hospitals can charge what they like and it has to come out your pocket, not covered by insurance. 

TIT.

For all our cynicism, it should be noted that an estimated 0.1% - 0.2% are false positives. That's between 1 and 2 tests per thousand are false positives. What should happen, but apparently doesn't in TH, is a second confirmatory test should be done.

I don't necessarily buy into the idea, that there are conspiracies going on to fleece unsuspecting tourists. If that were the case, then I think it would be reflected in the numbers. I presume that there is nothing to stop someone who is asymptomatic commissioning a second test at there own expense by a different lab.

A far greater concern is that studies have shown that false negatives are far more prolific ranging 2% - 29%. The latter figure comes from China, and I believe that 2% is widely accepted. Thus you are at least 10X more likely to be diagnosed with false negative than a false positive.

[Georgealexmate]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

As Dr Supakit suggested, that was probably because his infection when first tested was on the way out.

Whether that might also apply to you is something only a specialist with full access to the test results would be able to tell you so there's absolutely no point anyone speculating here.

Can't be true check current scientific evidence a previous infected is positive for months that's why you get a Recovery Certificate because Pcr makes no sense after infection 

[Georgealexmate]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

The initial sample was not only re-tested, again testing positive, but sequenced for Omicron as well.

The chance of both tests and both sequences being "false positives" is there, but it's minimal.

Once positive you're positive for long that's why pcr is needed just to show when you were positive in Denmark you present Recovery certificate 

That's from today bte they reintroduced test except for previous infected 

Note: The following groups of persons will be exempt from the requirement for testing when the rules come into force on 27 December (this page will be updated when the rules enter into force):

 

Children under 15 years.

Persons who for medical reasons should not have an antigen or PCR test performed for COVID-19.

Persons who should not have an antigen or PCR test for COVID-19 due to a physical or mental disability.

Persons who have previously been infected with COVID-19 and who can present documentation of a positive PCR test for COVID-19, which has been performed at least 14 days and at most 180 days before the time of entry.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, JohninDublin said:

What should happen, but apparently doesn't in TH, is a second confirmatory test should be done.

It was.

 

The Head of the Medical Sciences Department Dr. Supakit Sirilak confirmed that "the same specimen was sent for a second analysis, which was positive for the Omicron variant, but in a small amount".

 

 

[alex12345]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but its an interesting fact, if he did have a tiny amount of infection from a vaccination, that means the vaccinated can infect the uninfected if they have the right kind of vaccine.

i'm not a conspiracy theorist much but frankly a lot of governments reasons for getting vaccinated don't hold water at all. (I am vaccinated btw)

However if this is the first confirmation that the vaccinated can be infectious it would show why its still going around and it will never go if its spread by vaccinated people

something to ponder folks

[Stonker]

11 minutes ago, alex12345 said:

However if this is the first confirmation that the vaccinated can be infectious it would show why its still going around and it will never go if its spread by vaccinated people

something to ponder folks

No Covid vaccine gives sterile immunity, preventing the vaccinated from being infectious - few vaccines do.

[Stardust]

This claims make no sense because in their logic the test before he fly must then be positive, too but it wasn't. So it is fishy

[Stardust]

7 hours ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

And as reported ..
The director of Koh Samui Hospital posits that the traveller was infected with a mild case of Covid-19, possibly due to being vaccinated, and has already recovered from the virus he tested positive for 6 days previously. 

‘So he was vaccinated with …. Omicron … one posits belief on that !

Yes make no sense because the test before the flight was negative.

[Guest1]

2 minutes ago, Stardust said:

This claims make no sense because in their logic the test before he fly must then be positive, too but it wasn't. So it is fishy

I would like to know some 2 things:

How many cycles for the 1 .PCR test and how many for the other 3?

Is the lab for the first test connected to the SHT Hotel? Like (Is it) the Hospital, in case the tourist "is positive"?

And in case that it is: How is the positive ratio in this lab?

[Guest1]

3 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Yes make no sense because the test before the flight was negative.

The secret, why one test is negative, the other is positive:

Cycles: For departure tests it might not be more than 30, for arrival tests perhaps up to 40+?

[NCC1701A]

did they put a number tattoo on him yet? 

[Cabra]

This guy deserve to be deported and banned. Crime minds, do stupid things. Simple as that. He had insurance (as a requirement for arrival). Even if it was a false positive. He should have done his 7-14 day quarantine, billed his insurance if actually hospitalized, and been in Samui before new year. No more.

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, Stardust said:

This claims make no sense because in their logic the test before he fly must then be positive, too but it wasn't. So it is fishy

Or the test before he flew was fishy, as were the tests for the 25 out of 31 Thais who returned from Mecca on 15 December, the American who arrived on 13 December and went on to Chiang Mai who also tested negative on arrival, and the 8 Thais who flew in to Phuket on 13 December, also from Mecca.

What makes rather more sense is that far from all PCR tests are able to detect Omicron accurately, and that the infection period is unclear as yet as is a lot about Omicron.

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, Guest1 said:

The secret, why one test is negative, the other is positive:

Cycles: For departure tests it might not be more than 30, for arrival tests perhaps up to 40+?

The number of cycles varies depending on the manufacturers' instructions - there is no 'standard'.

 

4 hours ago, Guest1 said:

I would like to know some 2 things:

How many cycles for the 1 .PCR test and how many for the other 3?

Is the lab for the first test connected to the SHT Hotel? Like (Is it) the Hospital, in case the tourist "is positive"?

And in case that it is: How is the positive ratio in this lab?

That wouldn't help you unless you also knew the manufacturers, how many cycles they stipulated, and were trained in how to read the result.

Nor would knowing if the hospital was connected to the hotel, as he wouldn't necessarily have been hospitalised as that depends on the severity of his symptoms (in his case apparently none) and if the SHA+ hotel was also an SQ hotel, which seems unlikely.

[astro]

6 hours ago, alex12345 said:

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but its an interesting fact, if he did have a tiny amount of infection from a vaccination, that means the vaccinated can infect the uninfected if they have the right

It is well known that vaccinated can also carry & spread the virus, but to a lesser degree than the unvaccinated.

The aim is to slow the spread of the virus, not to stop it, which is impossible.

 

Vaccination also does not protect entirely from infection, but chances are less and the symptoms milder, apparently.

[Guest1]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

The number of cycles varies depending on the manufacturers' instructions - there is no 'standard'.

There is a saying, everything over 30 is 'creating' positives!

Ok, that is right for 'qualitative PCR tests',  but the other kind, 'quantitative PCR tests', are usually not used for answering the question 'is the person infected', but instead for 'is the person STILL infected'.

So, kind of, there ARE standards (30 cycles), for testing  to find infected people WITHOUT the hint, that they might be infected! As with people, which have just had one negative PCR test , before departure, it should be the case!

Unless science is not only different for the road sewer system, sometimes, here in Thailand, there should be PCR tests in use, on arrival, which are limited to 30 cycles.

But still, TiT!

[Stonker]

12 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

There is a saying, everything over 30 is 'creating' positives!

Ok, that is right for 'qualitative PCR tests',  but the other kind, 'quantitative PCR tests', are usually not used for answering the question 'is the person infected', but instead for 'is the person STILL infected'.

So, kind of, there ARE standards (30 cycles), for testing  to find infected people WITHOUT the hint, that they might be infected! As with people, which have just had one negative PCR test , before departure, it should be the case!

Unless science is not only different for the road sewer system, sometimes, here in Thailand, there should be PCR tests in use, on arrival, which are limited to 30 cycles.

But still, TiT!

Agreed, but you're then getting into the realms of which particular PCR tests can detect Omicron and so on.

The whole 'sting the farang with false positives' bit falls apart when you see that so many of the known "arrivals" such as the 25 out of 31 and 8 others from Mecca, etc are Thai not foreign. They neither have insurance to be stung nor do they need it, and insurance companies are hardly likely to just sit back and accept it.  The numbers involved and the numbers that would have to be paid off just wouldn't make anything worthwhile.

[HolyCowCm]

Just deport and black list the guy. Now let's put the real blame where it should be at, and that is where it originally came from and was let out to devestate the world, and that is the CCP Commie land.

[Fluke]

11 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

I don't necessarily buy into the idea, that there are conspiracies going on to fleece unsuspecting tourists.

Its not a conspiracy theory .

Hospitals in Thailand are a business and they are there to make a profit .

Its the normal thing for Thai hospitals to create business for themselves  by inventing work that needs to be done on patients 

[Benroon]

31 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Its the normal thing for Thai hospitals to create business for themselves  by inventing work that needs to be done on patients 

As in every country on the planet - you're thinking this is a Thai thing right ? 

[Benroon]

10 hours ago, alex12345 said:

However if this is the first confirmation that the vaccinated can be infectious it would show why its still going around and it will never go if its spread by vaccinated people

something to ponder folks

Nothing at all to ponder unless you've been living under a rock for the last 2 years.

Please provide anything at all that says the vaccinated are not infectious -  while we wait lets repeat for the 14th billion time for the hard of thinking - the driving force behind vaccinations is to make your chances of hospitalisation, thus swamping national health systems, much less likely and has been proved beyond doubt (unless you are a fully paid up member of the David Icke society where black is actually white and the earth is flat)

Will this ever move on whilst their is always someone to take it back to square 1 with drivel ?

 

[Stardust]

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

Agreed, but you're then getting into the realms of which particular PCR tests can detect Omicron and so on.

The whole 'sting the farang with false positives' bit falls apart when you see that so many of the known "arrivals" such as the 25 out of 31 and 8 others from Mecca, etc are Thai not foreign. They neither have insurance to be stung nor do they need it, and insurance companies are hardly likely to just sit back and accept it.  The numbers involved and the numbers that would have to be paid off just wouldn't make anything worthwhile.

So you are claiming Israel making fake tests?? Your guessings have zero foundations!

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

He needn’t worry about not getting covid! His stay in a Thai Jail or Immigration detention centre will sort that out. 

[JohninDublin]

2 hours ago, Fluke said:

Its not a conspiracy theory .

Hospitals in Thailand are a business and they are there to make a profit .

Its the normal thing for Thai hospitals to create business for themselves  by inventing work that needs to be done on patients 

I have not said it was a CT. However it would require collusion between a Lab and a hospital to make it a conspiracy. Do you have any evidence that this is happening? If not then it is a CT.

I can't say that this is not happening, but consider this. According to a post made by @Jayce on another thread today, there have been 105000 people tested under "test and Go", and this has produced 120 "internments". That's 1 in 875. Among those there will be some  who took Sinovax. Yesterday, the UK reported 116k new infections in one day. That is one in 590. If this is taking place, then it is not really being reflected in the numbers so far.

I can make a whole host of statistical arguments to the effect that if this is happening, it is at worst, only happening on a tiny scale. Does it seem unreasonable to you that there would be as many as 120 cases found in 105k PCR tests in people coming from countries which have mainly higher infection rates than TH? If you think that number is reasonable, then it follows that this is not happening, or at worse, only involves a handful of cases.