News Forum - Majority believe convicted criminals shouldn’t get a Royal pardon

[Thaiger]

In the wake of Minister of Justice Somsak Thepsuthin initiating a Royal pardon for many people convicted of corruption, drug trafficking, and other serious crimes, the National Institute of Development Administration polled 1,317 people and found overwhelming opposition to the proposed pardon. The NIDA poll was done by phone between December 13 and December 15 and respondents from around the country represented people of various backgrounds and occupations. It asked whether a person should be pardoned to receive a reduced sentence if they have been convicted of various crimes including corruption, drug trafficking, and more serious crimes like murder or […]

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[Rain]

Political prisoners?

Those that were unnecessarily forced into exile? 

Surely, a much more logical manner in which to use the cherished royal pardon.

[Shade_Wilder]

 

First, it is important to point out that no poll in Thailand should ever be deemed credible; if they don't show their methodology in a transparent manner, they are shit. Period. However, for the sake of discussion, let's assume that the numbers are approximately correct.

Many, many years ago, I had a few months to kill in Bangkok, so I took a job as an English conversation teacher. One night, I gave my class of young professionals a scenario to discuss; their youngest brother was hit by a taxi which had run a red light. What should happen? They gave the expected answers; fine, a small amount of jail, pay medical costs, etc. Next, I changed the parameters of the discussion so that their youngest brother was the driver of the taxi and he hit a stranger; what should happen? Well, well, what a difference! All of a sudden, they were quite understanding of the taxi driver and felt that the experience alone was punishment enough. I learned then that Thais firmly and adamantly believe that OTHER people should obey the law, Damn it!

In crime issues, you need to consider three things; deterrence, punishment and rehabilitation.

In setting out punishments in order to deter crime, what is good? is 2 years in jail for robbing a 7-11 good enough, or should it be 4 years? Are penalties for political corruption adequate? If not, what is adequate; should a politician be held to a different standard than a businessman? Should a teacher be held to a higher standard than a laborer? Should a Bureaucrat be held to a different standard than a Farmer? I don't have a simple answer, so I'll just move along.

What is adequate punishment? In my personal case, a week in jail would cure just about anything (yes, I am soft as hell). Is there really much difference between a sentence of 6 years and a sentence of 8 years as punishment? I don't really think so. I think the punishment aspect to it should be long enough that a criminal regrets their actions and learns their lesson, and not really longer. what would be the point?

Rehabilitation is the key to this in my view; what is the point of putting some one in jail if they commit further crime after release? Sadly, few countries/societies focus enough on this issue. My rule of the thumb is getting them out of jail as fast as possible; if they're to have any opportunity to re-build a life, then they need minimum prison time.

Go pardons!

Finally, one key point; for the real psychos like Ted Bundy/Charles Manson in the US, Robert Shipman/Rose West in the UK, Clifford Olsen/Robert Pickton in Canada, the Muslim whacko who shot up a mosque in NZ, etc., etc., etc., then just weld their prison door shut; some people aren't worth any effort.

This question is simply wrong. If you want to deal with crime issues, you should do it before they occur, not after the fact. If you want to see crime and punishment issues be diminished, then invest in adequate schooling with ethics, ease up on income inequality, create systems of accountability (especially in politics), don't let 'High-So's get away with shit, apply the Rule of Law equally, punish coup leaders, etc.

Loading up the jails and keeping people there endlessly doesn't work; look at the US system of Justice and tell me that you want to see that here.

 

[Fanta]

Stupid poll. How can people give an answer to questions of pardon when they don’t actually know how the pardon system works in Thai jails?

Murderers, rapists, thieves etc can receive up to 50% off their sentences via one pardon. Drug traffickers a maximum of 20%. A person has to have killed at least one person to be convicted of murder. A person has to have been caught in possession of more than 0.375 grams of methamphetamine to be convicted and labeled a drug trafficker -  0.375 of 1 gram - your average tablet size.

Murderers come and go in prison, drug dealers stay. Corruption? We all know why that’s not excluded from pardons. 

[HolyCowCm]

And they should do away with and rescind personally given special immunity to a few.

[KaptainRob]

4 hours ago, Shade_Wilder said:

Finally, one key point; for the real psychos like Ted Bundy/Charles Manson in the US, Robert Shipman/Rose West in the UK, Clifford Olsen/Robert Pickton in Canada, the Muslim whacko who shot up a mosque in NZ, etc., etc., etc., then just weld their prison door shut; some people aren't worth any effort.

Death penalty for the 100% confirmed guilty would be best and save millions of taxpayer funds to be spent on more worthy projects.

[Stonker]

32 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

Death penalty for the 100% confirmed guilty would be best and save millions of taxpayer funds to be spent on more worthy projects.

Rather unfortunate for those found guilty who are later found to be totally innocent.

[KaptainRob]

14 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Rather unfortunate for those found guilty who are later found to be totally innocent.

I referred to 100% guilty and highlighted the Aussie murderer of Muslims in NZ mosque.  Did you see the video he streamed live?  Kind of proves his guilt I think 

[Stonker]

20 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

I referred to 100% guilty and highlighted the Aussie murderer of Muslims in NZ mosque.  Did you see the video he streamed live?  Kind of proves his guilt I think 

Agreed absolutely, but the problem is where do you draw the line?

'Guilty' is pretty binary! 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, KaptainRob said:

Death penalty for the 100% confirmed guilty would be best and save millions of taxpayer funds to be spent on more worthy projects.

Depends on the legal system. It’s been proven time and time again that in the US the death penalty with it’s mandatory appeals actually costs taxpayers more than prisoners serving out a Life Without Parole sentence. And there’s the whole “Later proven innocent” issue to consider. Personally I’d cop the death sentence rather than Life Without Parole because the waiting to die of old age would be a torture. No closure you see, and no end in sight. Just waiting and waiting and waiting. 

[KaptainRob]

1 minute ago, Fanta said:

Depends on the legal system. It’s been proven time and time again that in the US the death penalty with it’s mandatory appeals actually costs taxpayers more than prisoners serving out a Life Without Parole sentence. And there’s the whole “Later proven innocent” issue to consider. Personally I’d cop the death sentence rather than Life Without Parole because the waiting to die of old age would be a torture. No closure you see, and no end in sight. Just waiting and waiting and waiting. 

100% guilty as my example, no question of innocence.  No appeals, straight to the injection or electric chair.  Guillotine even better.

[Stonker]

20 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

100% guilty as my example, no question of innocence.  No appeals, straight to the injection or electric chair.  Guillotine even better.

As I asked, though, where do you draw the line?

If there's any "question of innocence", then under most legal systems you're not guilty.

Most are binary systems - guilty or not guilty, and there's no "%".

I agree absolutely that for some there's obviously no question, but how do you draw the line?

I just don't see how it's possible to have that sort of system, nice though it would be.