News Forum - The future of digital nomads in Thailand

[Thaiger]

As the Covid-19 pandemic has helped boost the demand for digital nomads, Thailand has yet to formalise a legal way for such workers to stay in the Kingdom. Although Thailand recently announced it is targetting highly paid digital workers to help aid in the country’s economic recovery, it leaves the rest of online workers in the dark. Citing the fact that such wealthier digital nomads would increase spending in the country, the government hasn’t realised that masses of lower-salaried digital nomads could also help the economy. Since Thailand has a low cost of living, even such lower-salaried workers from developed […]

The story The future of digital nomads in Thailand as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Paco]

Let me answer the topic...there is no future for digital nomads, because they not willing to make for once a visa with normal requirements, Thailand is greedy and make stupid requirements ALL the time.. so visas,ideas become useless... Now Thailand changed the way you can use PayPal starting in February, and again PayPal becomes useless for people in Thailand, not going into detail about it, but greediness again... If Thailand listen to the people for once they would know we do not mind paying taxes if you make a descent visa for us. But so long you do not we keep on doing what we do without paying taxes

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

They’re not policing it now, so what makes you think they will police it in the future?

[Rain]

No loss, anyway.

 

[Cathat]

Quite easy for a digital nomads to work on a tourist visa in thailand or any other place for that matter.if the Thais don't want there day to day spending somebody else will.they will happily give the government the finger and go elsewhere where,what bit of nomad do they not understand.get greedy,you end up with nothing,it's that simple.

[Stonker]

22 minutes ago, Cathat said:

if the Thais don't want there day to day spending somebody else will.

Not many - read the original article bits of this have been cherry-picked from and it's clear that many others don't want the digital nomads with low spending power but only those with big bucks - Barbados is cited as needing proof of a minimum annual income of 1.5 million baht / $50k.

What countries try to attract those who "each spent 35,000 baht on monthly expenses"?

 

 

[JamesE]

55 minutes ago, Stonker said:

What countries try to attract those who "each spent 35,000 baht on monthly expenses"?

฿35K for a monthly spend is chump change. Other countries (like Barbados) are looking for bigger spenders. From Barbados's website: "Obtaining the visa has proved remarkably easy as long as you earn a minimum of US$50,000 per year and have health insurance in place, although obtaining local health insurance is available for visitors. There are also some routine security questions. The fee is US$2,000 per person or US$3,000 per family." That's +/-฿60/90K just for the visa. Thailand's proposed requirements seem very attractive.

[Freeduhdumb]

5 hours ago, Paco said:

Let me answer the topic...there is no future for digital nomads, because they not willing to make for once a visa with normal requirements, Thailand is greedy and make stupid requirements ALL the time.. so visas,ideas become useless... Now Thailand changed the way you can use PayPal starting in February, and again PayPal becomes useless for people in Thailand, not going into detail about it, but greediness again... If Thailand listen to the people for once they would know we do not mind paying taxes if you make a descent visa for us. But so long you do not we keep on doing what we do without paying taxes

Paco made the exact point I was going to make. I know at least 10-15 people who work online in Thailand who have either a marriage or retirement visa and don't pay any taxes. It's laughable... Thailand could generate so much revenue with this one VISA. I know others who go to places like Ecuador and get a visa, short term, long term and Permanent Residence VISA's by simply showing $400.00 per month income and gladly live and contribute their. There are many other similar countries... Thailand is shooting itself in the foot. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Freeduhdumb

[Cathat]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

Not many - read the original article bits of this have been cherry-picked from and it's clear that many others don't want the digital nomads with low spending power but only those with big bucks - Barbados is cited as needing proof of a minimum annual income of 1.5 million baht / $50k.

What countries try to attract those who "each spent 35,000 baht on monthly expenses"?

Comparing Barbados with Thailand is like comparing apples with oranges.same if you used the likes of Monaco or the channel Islands for comparison.

The bottom line is that's it's a competitive market and the Thais can have 35k baht(using your figure) or zilch.

There is plenty of choice of other countries within the region in normal times were they can go and live on tourist visas and go about their business online with no interference.

Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia are all within spitting distance and have simple visa requirements on arrival.malaysia is particularly attractive in visa terms for many nationalities,3 months on arrival and just nip over the border to Singapore or Thailand for as many 3 month stays as you like.

The digital nomads I know trade crypto and stocks and shares on the worlds major markets and their daily spend is considerably higher than the figure you quote but that is irrelevant.

Not one of them is interested in residency in thailand or any other country that I personally know.they enjoy the nomadic lifestyle,thats the point.

 

[Bluesofa]

8 hours ago, Paco said:

Let me answer the topic...there is no future for digital nomads, because they not willing to make for once a visa with normal requirements, Thailand is greedy and make stupid requirements ALL the time.. so visas,ideas become useless... Now Thailand changed the way you can use PayPal starting in February, and again PayPal becomes useless for people in Thailand, not going into detail about it, but greediness again... If Thailand listen to the people for once they would know we do not mind paying taxes if you make a descent visa for us. But so long you do not we keep on doing what we do without paying taxes

I agree entirely, especially about PayPal.
I posted about it here a couple of days ago: https://thethaiger.com/talk/topic/9176-paypal-thailand-relaunching/ 

 

[Rain]

Might be much more beneficial for the society to greatly [I mean big time] limit all types of Farang wannabe residents....and goddamn tourists as well. 

Take your destructive expansion somewhere else.

[LoongFred]

9 hours ago, JamesE said:

฿35K for a monthly spend is chump change. Other countries (like Barbados) are looking for bigger spenders. From Barbados's website: "Obtaining the visa has proved remarkably easy as long as you earn a minimum of US$50,000 per year and have health insurance in place, although obtaining local health insurance is available for visitors. There are also some routine security questions. The fee is US$2,000 per person or US$3,000 per family." That's +/-฿60/90K just for the visa. Thailand's proposed requirements seem very attractive.

I think that digital nomads should have the same financial requirements as those on Non-O visas. That is a minimum of 65k baht per month from foreign sources or 800k baht in the bank for ***. The Thai government has determined this to be a minimum and should apply to all. I won't get into insurance or family visas, but that could be a consideration. 

Thailand needs to be sure that anyone staying here has enough resources and is sponging off society. 

 

[Stonker]

13 hours ago, JamesE said:

฿35K for a monthly spend is chump change. Other countries (like Barbados) are looking for bigger spenders. From Barbados's website: "Obtaining the visa has proved remarkably easy as long as you earn a minimum of US$50,000 per year and have health insurance in place, although obtaining local health insurance is available for visitors. There are also some routine security questions. The fee is US$2,000 per person or US$3,000 per family." That's +/-฿60/90K just for the visa. Thailand's proposed requirements seem very attractive.

Exactly.

According to the original article, Barbados needs an income of some 1.5 million baht a year, so twice that required for a retiree here, while the spend for 'digital nomads' here is only 35k per month or half a retiree's income!

[Stonker]

13 hours ago, Cathat said:

 bottom line is that's it's a competitive market and the Thais can have 35k baht(using your figure) or zilch

35k isn't 'my' figure, so please don't refer to it as such as if I've made it up it's deliberately misleading.

It's the figure in the report, clearly stated in the source article which I quoted from, from which this article is cherry-picked.

Barbados was also not my choice of alternatives, but was cited in both the Thaiger article and the original.

[Stonker]

13 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Paco made the exact point I was going to make. I know at least 10-15 people who work online in Thailand who have either a marriage or retirement visa and don't pay any taxes. It's laughable... Thailand could generate so much revenue with this one VISA. I know others who go to places like Ecuador and get a visa, short term, long term and Permanent Residence VISA's by simply showing $400.00 per month income and gladly live and contribute their. There are many other similar countries... Thailand is shooting itself in the foot. 

If they already have a "marriage or retirement visa" then they already have a marital or financial commitment here - the average 'digital nomad' with their spend of 35k a month has neither.

Far from "shooting itself in the foot", Thailand simply and quite rightly doesn't want these digital bums here, or their 35k a month,  contributing nothing and sponging off Thais who are paying taxes that support them.

[Rain]

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

If they already have a "marriage or retirement visa" then they already have a marital or financial commitment here - the average 'digital nomad' with their spend of 35k a month has neither.

Far from "shooting itself in the foot", Thailand simply and quite rightly doesn't want these digital bums here, or their 35k a month,  contributing nothing and sponging off Thais who are paying taxes that support them.

Might apply to a larger percentage of the foreign residents. 

[Freeduhdumb]

6 hours ago, Stonker said:

If they already have a "marriage or retirement visa" then they already have a marital or financial commitment here - the average 'digital nomad' with their spend of 35k a month has neither.

Far from "shooting itself in the foot", Thailand simply and quite rightly doesn't want these digital bums here, or their 35k a month,  contributing nothing and sponging off Thais who are paying taxes that support them.

My central point was, give them a route to contribute by providing a visa that does required them to contribute. Most people accept and want to contribute (via taxation) give them that mechanism. 

[LoongFred]

9 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

My central point was, give them a route to contribute by providing a visa that does required them to contribute. Most people accept and want to contribute (via taxation) give them that mechanism. 

What? Give them a route but don't require them to contribute equals nothing.  Don't treat them special and no special exemptions. If they want to stay they need to make a significant contribution.  That's more than living in a guest house and eating two bowls of noodles per day.

[LoongFred]

13 hours ago, Rain said:

Might apply to a larger percentage of the foreign residents. 

Any foreign resident living on 35k/mo, isn't making a contribution and living on the edge. That is unless you live in a poorer rural area. 

[Stonker]

12 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

My central point was, give them a route to contribute by providing a visa that does required them to contribute. Most people accept and want to contribute (via taxation) give them that mechanism. 

If they're spending 35k a month here, including all expenses and accommodation and food,  I really don't think they "want to contribute (via taxation)" !

 

[LoongFred]

On 12/19/2021 at 2:32 AM, Cathat said:

Comparing Barbados with Thailand is like comparing apples with oranges.same if you used the likes of Monaco or the channel Islands for comparison.

The bottom line is that's it's a competitive market and the Thais can have 35k baht(using your figure) or zilch.

There is plenty of choice of other countries within the region in normal times were they can go and live on tourist visas and go about their business online with no interference.

Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia are all within spitting distance and have simple visa requirements on arrival.malaysia is particularly attractive in visa terms for many nationalities,3 months on arrival and just nip over the border to Singapore or Thailand for as many 3 month stays as you like.

The digital nomads I know trade crypto and stocks and shares on the worlds major markets and their daily spend is considerably higher than the figure you quote but that is irrelevant.

Not one of them is interested in residency in thailand or any other country that I personally know.they enjoy the nomadic lifestyle,thats the point.

They need to keep moving and don't settle down for >30 days. Then they're nomads. Those who settle in and work on line need to legitimize there stays. Which is, providing correct visas to stay.

[Shark]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

They need to keep moving and don't settle down for >30 days. Then they're nomads. Those who settle in and work on line need to legitimize there stays. Which is, providing correct visas to stay.

I remember calling Fred sour before, but now, I 1000% agree with him.

I don't consider somebody staying for almost 2 years (as most of them are hiding on covid extensions) a "nomad". Nomad indeed needs to travel, Digital Entrepreneur or however they want to call themselves can also enroll on a local company and pay taxes and staff just like every other with a Non-B + Work Permit does.

 

  

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

If they're spending 35k a month here, including all expenses and accommodation and food,  I really don't think they "want to contribute (via taxation)" !

I also fully agree to this. They just want to leave cheap and while doing so complain about taxes which are pretty much the lowest in Thailand compare to the rest of the west. Ok some exemptions.

 

[Shark]

1 hour ago, Shark said:

I also fully agree to this. They just want to live cheap and while doing so complain about taxes which are pretty much the lowest in Thailand compare to the rest of the west. Ok some exemptions.

live fml.

[LoongFred]

59 minutes ago, Shark said:

I remember calling Fred sour before, but now, I 1000% agree with him.

I don't consider somebody staying for almost 2 years (as most of them are hiding on covid extensions) a "nomad". Nomad indeed needs to travel, Digital Entrepreneur or however they want to call themselves can also enroll on a local company and pay taxes and staff just like every other with a Non-B + Work Permit does.

  

I also fully agree to this. They just want to leave cheap and while doing so complain about taxes which are pretty much the lowest in Thailand compare to the rest of the west. Ok some exemptions.

I don't care about being called sour, sometimes it may fit. I do dislike those who are trying to game the system for their own benefit. They aren't nomads that's for sure and most don't make enough to make a contribution.  If Thailand sees a benefit, OK, but I only see that they take up space, if they don't produce enough to qualify.

[Paco]

On 12/19/2021 at 2:19 AM, Freeduhdumb said:

Paco made the exact point I was going to make. I know at least 10-15 people who work online in Thailand who have either a marriage or retirement visa and don't pay any taxes. It's laughable... Thailand could generate so much revenue with this one VISA. I know others who go to places like Ecuador and get a visa, short term, long term and Permanent Residence VISA's by simply showing $400.00 per month income and gladly live and contribute their. There are many other similar countries... Thailand is shooting itself in the foot. 

Thailand always goes for short term fast making money, and is plain stupid, long term and always have money coming in is a lot better, however logic in the Thai culture there isn't any