News Forum - Business and government leaders meet to reopen Pattaya bars

[JohninDublin]

4 hours ago, Pinetree said:

exactly right

The greater concern is not what goes on there, but BETPET: Brown Envelopes Trump Principles Every Time

[Pinetree]

3 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

The greater concern is not what goes on there, but BETPET: Brown Envelopes Trump Principles Every Time

That's just how this place works. We all live with that knowledge and either accept it, or leave 

[Stardust]

On 12/17/2021 at 2:04 PM, LoongFred said:

I don't think the government wants the return of the freewheeling and everything goes that Pattaya represented in the past. A lot of this was represented in the entertainment and bar industries.  The leaders want to attract a different type of tourist that's not compatible with the old.

Covid adds to this and officials know that these industries are a danger to the rest of the country.

Go ahead 

Somebody who make coups has no reputation or in any way morals. I guess corruption is for good morals but to drink a beer not. Abslot absurd your comments, especially Thais would not follow your views, they are aware about the history from the last decades of their country.

[LoongFred]

46 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Somebody who make coups has no reputation or in any way morals. I guess corruption is for good morals but to drink a beer not. Abslot absurd your comments, especially Thais would not follow your views, they are aware about the history from the last decades of their country.

You've lost me. It's  clear that authorities didn't like what had developed and if they return bars and entertainment places return, it won't be business as usual. We all know what was going on and it kept getting worse and more sleazy. 

[MrNovax]

On 12/17/2021 at 3:19 PM, JohninDublin said:

It therefore follows that I do not know anybody who cheers on such a gov. But I think your ideas border on anarchy.

I am all for Anarchy.  To be clear, Anarchy is simply the absence of a government, not the presence of chaos. take away the governments monopoly on security and there will be institutions who fill the void by the same means that private organizations fill the voids everywhere else in our lives not (yet) controlled by government.  

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, MrNovax said:

I am all for Anarchy.  To be clear, Anarchy is simply the absence of a government, not the presence of chaos. take away the governments monopoly on security and there will be institutions who fill the void by the same means that private organizations fill the voids everywhere else in our lives not (yet) controlled by government.  

Private institutions run by and governed by who?

[MrNovax]

On 12/17/2021 at 10:15 PM, Stonker said:

Sorry, but there's no point in responding to this unashamed and unadulterated hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy?  This is consistency.  I understand as much to say that I dont know what is best for others and am willing to allow them to do what is best for a safe and happy life.  Stating others should do what is best for themselves isnt encouraging them to hurt their fellow humans.  I'm not sorry if i burst your bubble and pointed out that there are other considerations beyond the virus.  

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, MrNovax said:

I am all for Anarchy.  To be clear, Anarchy is simply the absence of a government, not the presence of chaos. take away the governments monopoly on security and there will be institutions who fill the void by the same means that private organizations fill the voids everywhere else in our lives not (yet) controlled by government.  

You mean like Libya?

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, MrNovax said:

Hypocrisy?  This is consistency.  I understand as much to say that I dont know what is best for others and am willing to allow them to do what is best for a safe and happy life.  Stating others should do what is best for themselves isnt encouraging them to hurt their fellow humans.  I'm not sorry if i burst your bubble and pointed out that there are other considerations beyond the virus.  

In the absence of government, and therefore law and order, we can expect that many undesirable elements will seek to exploit the situation, and that the nearest we will have to a legal system is kangaroo courts. And that is just the start of the problems.

[LoongFred]

Safe and happy don't fit the Pattaya bar scene. It's not that I oppose someone enjoying a beer with friends, it what the Pattaya bar scene has developed into. With Omicron it's doubtful this scene will return.

My advice to those involved, if they haven't already done so, would to find other ways to support themselves. The whole industry needs to retool itself. Many, especially girls, were attracted to the freewheeling party atmosphere and saved nothing and few sent money home for supports. The myth of sending money home is 80% BS and the whole scene has destroyed many. A few that were smart gained job skills as hairdressers, seamstresses,  cooks etc. but most haven't. 

[Stonker]

17 hours ago, MrNovax said:

Hypocrisy?  This is consistency

Indeed - I've seldom seen hypocrisy so consistent.

Looking after number one, dressed up as liberty by generously being "willing to allow them to do what is best for a safe and happy life" !

[Stonker]

5 hours ago, LoongFred said:

The whole industry needs to retool itself. Many, especially girls, were attracted to the freewheeling party atmosphere and saved nothing and few sent money home for supports. The myth of sending money home is 80% BS and the whole scene has destroyed many. A few that were smart gained job skills as hairdressers, seamstresses,  cooks etc. but most haven't.

Absolutely spot on, although it's not "especially girls" but guys as well and those in-between as well as those who are happy to be "gay for pay".

Totally outdated and living on borrowed time as the internet has taken over the need for or point in the middleman and bars, apart from for those who enjoy the atmosphere more than the climax, the journey more than the arrival, the chase more than the capture.

The only part I disagree with is that it's "80% BS" - more like 95%.

Very, very few make enough money to "send home", apart from to pay a stipend to parents to look after their kids - the only ones who do are those who've left the bar scene having married or settled down with an ex-customer.

Far, far more is "sent home" by those working in factories who have a good, steady, regular income.

I know plenty in the villages around me whose adult children in factories support them, and they've been the ones hit by the pandemic as the factories have cut bonuses and overtime, so instead of getting support from their kids they've been supporting them for a while.

The myth of sending money home to buy another wheel for the cart or because the buffalo's died is just that - a myth.

[Cabra]

Pause test-and-go/reinstate quarantine, close vaccine centers and argue opening Pattaya bars... That's Thai logic at it's finest. Sarcasm aside, I doubt Pattaya officials win this argument. Not now, not yet. 

[billywillyjones]

On 12/18/2021 at 3:19 AM, JohninDublin said:

It seems to me that you live under a very strange gov. I've yet to witness what you talk about.

It therefore follows that I do not know anybody who cheers on such a gov. But I think your ideas border on anarchy. People cannot have unrestricted freedom, because there are far too many people, though one is too many, who will use their freedom to impinge on others freedoms. 

Where you have any anarchy, you will invariably have a population that will call for the restoration of order by any means possible. You may have noticed that I did not say "Law and Order". That's how we end up with monsters like Duterte.

I have no idea where you are from, though I do have my suspicions. Maybe it's one of those countries that has more than it's fair share of people to whom the word "freedom" means a different thing to each of them.

This has nothing to do with freedom only fools believe that argument.  It is all about common sense.  Are you going to lock yourself in your basement unti they cure cancer?

[JustaGuy]

1 hour ago, Cabra said:

Pause test-and-go/reinstate quarantine, close vaccine centers and argue opening Pattaya bars... That's Thai logic at it's finest. Sarcasm aside, I doubt Pattaya officials win this argument. Not now, not yet. 

yeah no point. with the suspension, The operating costs of running an empty bar will far outweigh the few tourists customers at the premises.

[JohninDublin]

53 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

This has nothing to do with freedom only fools believe that argument.  It is all about common sense.  Are you going to lock yourself in your basement unti they cure cancer?

Not sure that is analogous to the current situation. Cancer is not contagious.

[MrNovax]

21 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

In the absence of government, and therefore law and order, we can expect that many undesirable elements will seek to exploit the situation, and that the nearest we will have to a legal system is kangaroo courts. And that is just the start of the problems.

Again confusing anarchy for chaos.  

[MrNovax]

22 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

You mean like Libya?

No, im not advocating for the US government/military to intervene and go out of its way to destabilize a country.  If you have some time/interest, pick up Scott Horton's book "enough already" as there is no way to properly respond to this straw man in a forum post.  

[MrNovax]

23 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Private institutions run by and governed by who?

If government doesnt provide you shoes, how could you possibly have shoes?  Or lets go something complex, if the government doesn't provide you with phone service, how will we ever talk on the phone?  Because if i have DTAC and you have Tru there is no way they would ever open their networks to each other.

Taking away the sarcasm, i dont know the specific companies that would emerge.   But most major companies already rely on private security and just like there are low cost providers that pop up to service lower income households in telecommunications, airlines, food, clothing, and just about every other aspect of our lives, i am confident someone will want to make money providing security.  I know our place in Thailand already has guards at the gates.

[JohninDublin]

33 minutes ago, MrNovax said:

Again confusing anarchy for chaos.  

They are by-products of each other.

[JohninDublin]

30 minutes ago, MrNovax said:

No, im not advocating for the US government/military to intervene and go out of its way to destabilize a country.  If you have some time/interest, pick up Scott Horton's book "enough already" as there is no way to properly respond to this straw man in a forum post.  

I didn't ask for your opinion on what the causes of Libya's problems. My question was rhetorical, and showed what was likely (if not almost certain) to happen if you, "take away the governments monopoly on security"

[MrNovax]

1 hour ago, JohninDublin said:

I didn't ask for your opinion on what the causes of Libya's problems. My question was rhetorical, and showed what was likely (if not almost certain) to happen if you, "take away the governments monopoly on security"

I didnt provide opinion,  i offered literature so you could better understand what actually happened.  

[JohninDublin]

2 hours ago, MrNovax said:

I didnt provide opinion,  i offered literature so you could better understand what actually happened.  

Obfuscation. 

[Rookiescot]

7 hours ago, MrNovax said:

If government doesnt provide you shoes, how could you possibly have shoes?  Or lets go something complex, if the government doesn't provide you with phone service, how will we ever talk on the phone?  Because if i have DTAC and you have Tru there is no way they would ever open their networks to each other.

Taking away the sarcasm, i dont know the specific companies that would emerge.   But most major companies already rely on private security and just like there are low cost providers that pop up to service lower income households in telecommunications, airlines, food, clothing, and just about every other aspect of our lives, i am confident someone will want to make money providing security.  I know our place in Thailand already has guards at the gates.

Private security is exactly that. They are not the instruments of law and order.

If you get caught creeping around Katy Perrys house then you will be held by her private security until the police arrive.

What you are proposing is that these private security companies will be the police. All of them competing for business. Ergo all of them applying their own laws and rules to suit themselves.

So I ask again who is going to run these "companies" and who will govern them?

I dont need any answers regarding shoes. 

[Rain]

On 12/18/2021 at 2:47 AM, Pinetree said:

That's just how this place works. We all live with that knowledge and either accept it, or leave 

And everything continues to function as it should.