News Forum - More and more digital nomads choose Phuket for a “workation”

[Thaiger]

Many digital nomads call Thailand home, and more and more people are choosing Phuket for their so-called “workation,” using coffee shops on the island as an office. The BBC’s Thai reporters spoke to several people on the island who work remotely for companies in other countries. For 34 year old American Andy Lee, he runs his business from a cafe in Phuket. Andy initially travelled to Thailand through the island’s pilot “sandbox” programme in August. After staying in Thailand for 45 days, he travelled to South Korea to see family and then decided to come back to Thailand for stay […]

The story More and more digital nomads choose Phuket for a “workation” as seen on Thaiger News.

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[AlexPTY]

Completely illegal work without work permit in Thailand. Nice article, just need more details for immigration police to catch those nomads 

[Malc-Thai]

24 minutes ago, AlexPTY said:

Completely illegal work without work permit in Thailand. Nice article, just need more details for immigration police to catch those nomads 

Easy to find just look for the guy with a laptop in a coffee shop, With staff watching on to see if he's finished his coffee after 3 hours !

[Shark]

32 minutes ago, AlexPTY said:

Completely illegal work without work permit in Thailand. Nice article, just need more details for immigration police to catch those nomads 

I think @Malc-Thaigives some good hints. Every foreigner doing work in a restaurant is working illegally per defacto unless the owner of the place then he can if he has a work permit ON THAT ADDRESS.

I think it's time that Mr. Andy Lee gets deported. bye bye.

[LoongFred]

2 minutes ago, Shark said:

I think @Malc-Thaigives some good hints. Every foreigner doing work in a restaurant is working illegally per defacto unless the owner of the place then he can if he has a permit ON THAT ADDRESS.

I think it's time that Mr. Andy Lee gets deported. bye bye.

This is Thai visa drivel.  Might be true but the source can't be trusted.

Why would successful on line workers trust a coffee shop internet connection? Anyone who knows would want to use a VPN for business.

[oldschooler]

None of you miserable negative jealous posters sufficiently understand thai labour law. lighten up & tolerate more, please.

digital ”work” here, if not physically involving people in thailand, is allowed or tolerated,and is not illegal, mainly because the law remains sufficiently vague in this area, falling outside the forty odd defined reserved thai work categories, so no specific work permit category.in short, Imm. still unsure how to treat these guys ! 

these digital nomad types are completely welcome here from my perspective. they significantly contribute to the local economy ( visas, rent, food, transport, home contents, etc.) chiang mai has an entire block servicing these guys.they are certainly not breaking any laws. evidenced by not one having yet been deported.

there are plenty of really undesirable “legal” foreign types that need deporting. Maghreb Drug Dealer Pimps for example or Chinese Loan Sharks……. lets leave alone the digital nomads. always trouble- free, clean friendly professional guys.

[oldschooler]

now having googled this guy I find a certain Andy Lee operating a Real Estate business in Patong. not for long I suspect…… THAT activity certainly requires a Work Permit.doubt even the smartest best connected lawyer here could circumvent. of course it’s a common name so might not be the same bloke. if it is he certainly is not a “digital nomad” as he’s running a physical business inside thailand ! 

[Shark]

33 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

None of you miserable negative jealous posters sufficiently understand thai labour law. lighten up & tolerate more, please.

digital ”work” here, if not physically involving people in thailand, is allowed or tolerated,and is not illegal, mainly because the law remains sufficiently vague in this area, falling outside the forty odd defined reserved thai work categories, so no specific work permit category.in short, Imm. still unsure how to treat these guys ! 

these digital nomad types are completely welcome here from my perspective. they significantly contribute to the local economy ( visas, rent, food, transport, home contents, etc.) chiang mai has an entire block servicing these guys.they are certainly not breaking any laws. evidenced by not one having yet been deported.

there are plenty of really undesirable “legal” foreign types that need deporting. Maghreb Drug Dealer Pimps for example or Chinese Loan Sharks……. lets leave alone the digital nomads. always trouble- free, clean friendly professional guys.

anyways feel free to test your so claimed "knowledge" with the immigration office, we all know what they'll be saying.

Also please explain what visa your on because 99% of the visa's EXPLICITLY lists NO WORK to be done. So how do you imagine this with your so called loophole?

please kick out the nomads as they simply don't pay taxes here and I do.

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

33 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

doubt even the smartest best connected lawyer here could circumvent.

But a quick trip to a local stationary shop for a large brown envelope may just solve the problem

[oldschooler]

as indicated, it comes down to the definition here of Work which has not caught up here with the age of digital work.

yes, Work is actually whatever Imm. say it is but they still have to make a substantive (provable) paperwork case to deport or fine and I suspect they can make many easier non- digital deportation cases including usual “ fine” shakedowns ! 

personally, having seen friends caught with 50k Imm fines for “work”, I am ultra cautious, not even changing a light bulb in my own home ! why would I when 300 baht gets me a full day of consolidated delegated labor around the house ! I do generate rental (investment) income as Property Leasehold Owner but always legally through Thai Person / Thai Company Agent, with municipal tax paid.

nomads may not pay income or municipal tax but pay into economy here indirectly with regular living costs, like the rest of us.

[LoongFred]

5 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

as indicated, it comes down to the definition here of Work which has not caught up here with the age of digital work.

yes, Work is actually whatever Imm. say it is but they still have to make a substantive (provable) paperwork case to deport or fine and I suspect they can make many easier non- digital deportation cases including usual “ fine” shakedowns ! 

personally, having seen friends caught with 50k Imm fines for “work”, I am ultra cautious, not even changing a light bulb in my own home ! why would I when 300 baht gets me a full day of consolidated delegated labor around the house ! I do generate rental (investment) income as Property Leasehold Owner but always legally through Thai Person / Thai Company Agent, with municipal tax paid.

nomads may not pay income or municipal tax but pay into economy here indirectly with regular living costs, like the rest of us.

Good you have them in phuket and far from me. Some may be OK but mostly backpackers who are scrapping by. Why else would they be hanging out in coffee shops and not getting their own internet connection. Sorry for those in phuket. 

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

16 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Good you have them in phuket and far from me. Some may be OK but mostly backpackers who are scrapping by. Why else would they be hanging out in coffee shops and not getting their own internet connection. Sorry for those in phuket. 

Are you trying make a somekind of Monty Python joke? Beware of the nerdie latte laptop scooter gang! They are up to no good! They are a menace!

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

This is Thai visa drivel.  Might be true but the source can't be trusted.

Why would successful on line workers trust a coffee shop internet connection? Anyone who knows would want to use a VPN for business.

Talking nonsense I’m afraid when you talk about a VPN. You clearly don’t know what one is or how it operates, but I guess talking about something you know nothing about is part of the game you play. 

For those on the forum who are genuine members -

A VPN is something you set up and has nothing to do with the coffee shop Wi-Fi. The VPN on your laptop uses certificates and encrypts the connection between your laptop and the remote VPN host. Anyone trying to “sniff” in to your connection would just see garbage. I would add that this also applies to content sent over a HTTPS even when not using a VPN. As is the case right now when I’m logged in to the thaiger. It’s address as you will see is 

https://thethaiger.com

Like all levels of security, there are always those who can get around it if they have the knowledge and money to do so. However, working from a coffee shop with a VPN established or even a HTTPS connection to a remote network, is no less secure than doing it in your own home  

 

[LoongFred]

9 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Talking nonsense I’m afraid when you talk about a VPN. You clearly don’t know what one is or how it operates, but I guess talking about something you know nothing about is part of the game you play. 

For those on the forum who are genuine members -

A VPN is something you set up and has nothing to do with the coffee shop Wi-Fi. The VPN on your laptop uses certificates and encrypts the connection between your laptop and the remote VPN host. Anyone trying to “sniff” in to your connection would just see garbage. I would add that this also applies to content sent over a HTTPS even when not using a VPN. As is the case right now when I’m logged in to the thaiger. It’s address as you will see is 

https://thethaiger.com

Like all levels of security, there are always those who can get around it if they have the knowledge and money to do so. However, working from a coffee shop with a VPN established or even a HTTPS connection to a remote network, is no less secure than doing it in your own home  

 

I prefer a VPN router as it's more secure. However, to each there own. 

I suppose some DN do real work, but I doubt working from a coffee shop would be a good work environment.

[Shark]

2 hours ago, oldschooler said:

nomads may not pay income or municipal tax but pay into economy here indirectly with regular living costs, like the rest of us.

Income, revenue, social taxes for your staff (not even talking about salaries right here)? All together good for a minimum of 8000/month x 12 = 96000baht this is a lot money lost and sorry to state I do pay it so yeah those whom are in the grey and want a 99 year kingdom ban by all means proceed the way you like it.

I saw somebody being deported because he was in Makro, so yeah if they want they can.

 

[LoongFred]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

I prefer a VPN router as it's more secure. However, to each there own. 

I suppose some DN do real work, but I doubt working from a coffee shop would be a good work 

I don't understand someone using an internet connection for free or a cup of coffee. I think the intent is for shorter uses. The owners probably don't know what to say and let it happen. For me this type of person has a very entitled attitude and only wants to take advantage of free services. If they want to conduct business they should go somewhere and pay. Perhaps they could leave an appropriate amount of money to the coffee shop owner.

[Soidog]

13 hours ago, LoongFred said:

I prefer a VPN router as it's more secure. However, to each there own. 

I suppose some DN do real work, but I doubt working from a coffee shop would be a good work environment.

Utter nonsense. There’s a saying you may have heard of. When in a hole, stop digging. Stick to what you know about and get back to talking about bar flies for heavens sake! 

[TheDirtyDurian]

16 hours ago, LoongFred said:

This is Thai visa drivel.  Might be true but the source can't be trusted.

Why would successful on line workers trust a coffee shop internet connection? Anyone who knows would want to use a VPN for business.

That shows complete ignorance of what a VPN is and how one works. 

15 hours ago, Shark said:

anyways feel free to test your so claimed "knowledge" with the immigration office, we all know what they'll be saying.

Also please explain what visa your on because 99% of the visa's EXPLICITLY lists NO WORK to be done. So how do you imagine this with your so called loophole?

please kick out the nomads as they simply don't pay taxes here and I do.

Why you care so much. You never broke a law in your life I presume. 

14 hours ago, oldschooler said:

as indicated, it comes down to the definition here of Work which has not caught up here with the age of digital work.

yes, Work is actually whatever Imm. say it is but they still have to make a substantive (provable) paperwork case to deport or fine and I suspect they can make many easier non- digital deportation cases including usual “ fine” shakedowns ! 

personally, having seen friends caught with 50k Imm fines for “work”, I am ultra cautious, not even changing a light bulb in my own home ! why would I when 300 baht gets me a full day of consolidated delegated labor around the house ! I do generate rental (investment) income as Property Leasehold Owner but always legally through Thai Person / Thai Company Agent, with municipal tax paid.

nomads may not pay income or municipal tax but pay into economy here indirectly with regular living costs, like the rest of us.

You won't even change a light bulb??

That was a joke right?

14 hours ago, LoongFred said:

Good you have them in phuket and far from me. Some may be OK but mostly backpackers who are scrapping by. Why else would they be hanging out in coffee shops and not getting their own internet connection. Sorry for those in phuket. 

I often use the hotspot from my phone to run internet on my laptop. Just because someone is in a coffee shop, doesn't mean they have to use the shop  wi-fi. 

They could also have their own 4G router in their pocket. I get about 6 hours battery life with mine. 

12 hours ago, Shark said:

Income, revenue, social taxes for your staff (not even talking about salaries right here)? All together good for a minimum of 8000/month x 12 = 96000baht this is a lot money lost and sorry to state I do pay it so yeah those whom are in the grey and want a 99 year kingdom ban by all means proceed the way you like it.

I saw somebody being deported because he was in Makro, so yeah if they want they can.

Deported for being in Makro. They should have stuck to Villa!

12 hours ago, LoongFred said:

I don't understand someone using an internet connection for free or a cup of coffee. I think the intent is for shorter uses. The owners probably don't know what to say and let it happen. For me this type of person has a very entitled attitude and only wants to take advantage of free services. If they want to conduct business they should go somewhere and pay. Perhaps they could leave an appropriate amount of money to the coffee shop owner.

See my post above re how wi-fi works these days ...

[DiJoDavO]

I thought that digital nomads chose cheaper places to stay.... Not Phuket where the money will be sucked directly out of your wallet. 

[Shark]

1 hour ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Why you care so much. You never broke a law in your life I presume. 

actually I do, one of the reasons I live in Thailand. I pay the fine for my offenses.

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

You won't even change a light bulb??

That was a joke right?

exaggeration to prove the point ! 

[oldschooler]

18 hours ago, LoongFred said:

Good you have them in phuket and far from me. Some may be OK but mostly backpackers who are scrapping by. Why else would they be hanging out in coffee shops and not getting their own internet connection. Sorry for those in phuket. 

DNs are NOT “Backpackers” who have disappeared here during covid.

DN a Different Category. Normally young tech savvy entrepreneurs.

[LoongFred]

3 hours ago, oldschooler said:

DNs are NOT “Backpackers” who have disappeared here during covid.

DN a Different Category. Normally young tech savvy entrepreneurs.

I'd expect that successful DN,wouldn't be doing business in coffee shops. 

[TheDirtyDurian]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

exaggeration to prove the point ! 

It's strange but I used to sell stuff on a lot of local markets in the Nonthaburi area years ago, in my experience the only people who really seem to care about it are foreigners. Any one of Thousands of Thais could have reported me and yet no one did, and it would have been so easy to do so. 

I know it's easy to say that I was lucky etc etc, but I prefer to think otherwise. 

Anyways, years ago now so we'll never know. 

[TheDirtyDurian]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

I'd expect that successful DN,wouldn't be doing business in coffee shops. 

I think the whole coffee shop thing is a bit of a cliche. 

Digital = online 

Nomad = anywhere in the world 

There's no requirement for a coffee shop or the wi-fi from said coffee shop.

As I mentioned previously, with hotspots and 4G routers you could work from the top of a mountain so long as you've got a signal!