News Forum - Omicron variant and surging Covid-19 affects European nations

[Thaiger]

Following on our reporting on Covid-19 and the Omicron variant spreading throughout the US and in Africa and Australasia, here are some updates on European reactions to the new strain and dealing with a renewed Covid-19 threat. ENGLAND & IRELAND The UK Health Security Agency reported 75 more infections of the Omicron variant bringing the total throughout the country to 104 cases. In Ireland, restrictions are tightening to protect from Omicron for a one month period from December 7 to January 9. Private homes will be allowed a maximum of 4 families mixing, restaurants will be allowed table service only, […]

The story Omicron variant and surging Covid-19 affects European nations as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Jason]

All these countries are heading into winter. It's bitterly cold outside and snowing. With everyone in these countries staying inside and being unavoidably close together, there are perfect conditions for virus spread. Add to that a new variant and it's clear it will spread. Contrast that to Thailand where the year round climate is warm and many are outside in the open, the greatest chance of virus spread is in enclosed environments, like office workers. Once Omicron comes to Thailand, it will be those in enclosed spaces who will be most at risk. But to balance that, we don't know that much about Omicron. It seems more transmissible, but it may only cause mild symptoms. To date, no recorded deaths. Closing borders to other countries would be a mistake (particularly those countries with no incidence of Omicron). Getting vaccinated would be wise. But panic, would be unwise.

[Rangers]

I know 2 guys here in the UK that have it. Both not been vaccinated, but symptoms are so mild that they still laugh about getting the vaccine. Closing borders and having extra restrictions is a ridiculous idea, all you are doing is destroying the economy even more. Get vaccinated and get on with your life. Covid is here to stay and anyone that thinks lockdowns will make it disappear need their heads checked. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Rangers

[BlueSphinx]

3 minutes ago, Rangers said:

I know 2 guys here in the UK that have it. Both not been vaccinated, but symptoms are so mild that they still laugh about getting the vaccine. Closing borders and having extra restrictions is a ridiculous idea, all you are doing is destroying the economy even more. Get vaccinated and get on with your life. Covid is here to stay and anyone that thinks lockdowns will make it disappear need their heads checked. 

Agree, except for the 'get vaccinated' part...

[Rangers]

Just now, BlueSphinx said:

Agree, except for the 'get vaccinated' part...

Getting vaccinated should always be the person's choice, it shouldn't be forced upon anyone. I chose to get it but I totally understand you. It won't be long till the EU make it mandatory so I'm glad we are out of that embarrassing organisation. 

[Stonker]

33 minutes ago, Rangers said:

It won't be long till the EU make it mandatory so I'm glad we are out of that embarrassing organisation. 

The EU do not have any authority to make vaccines mandatory or to approve vaccines -it's not part of the EU remit.

This is entirely down to individual EU members, so whether the UK was in the EU is irrelevant.

[yselmike]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

Agree, except for the 'get vaccinated' part...

The front page of the times today....A whopping 90% of the COVID patients needing specialist care are unvaccinated! 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/doctors-and-nurses-vent-anger-as-unvaccinated-covid-cases-delay-vital-operations-z3zchvv9l

 

[Rangers]

37 minutes ago, Stonker said:

The EU do not have any authority to make vaccines mandatory or to approve vaccines -it's not part of the EU remit.

This is entirely down to individual EU members, so whether the UK was in the EU is irrelevant.

The European commission chief was asking for an EU meeting this week to discuss mandatory vaccines, was the headline in the financial Times during the week. Its either media mischief making (for a change) or something that will actually be discussed between the countries. Once Germany does it, the rest will follow the leader. 

[PhayakPeter]

The world's population is too large, this is natures way of reducing it. Every other time the population has been to large there has been diseases or wars to reduce it. Better diseases do it. 

[Rain]

4 hours ago, yselmike said:

The front page of the times today....A whopping 90% of the COVID patients needing specialist care are unvaccinated! 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/doctors-and-nurses-vent-anger-as-unvaccinated-covid-cases-delay-vital-operations-z3zchvv9l

....and what of the greater percentage of infected [unvaccinated] that recover easily, mild cases, asymptomatic, etc? Bet those stories aren't published nor brought to public attention. 

[RampantRabbit]

21 minutes ago, Rain said:

....and what of the greater percentage of infected [unvaccinated] that recover easily, mild cases, asymptomatic, etc? Bet those stories aren't published nor brought to public attention. 

what  pissed  me  off from the start was the  way it was mentioned that if u got  covid for sure it was  gonna  kill you, certainly presented it that way ,when the reality was the death rate  was  about 2  % with many having little  to no symptoms.............cue long covid replies

[TheDirtyDurian]

24 minutes ago, Rain said:

....and what of the greater percentage of infected [unvaccinated] that recover easily, mild cases, asymptomatic, etc? Bet those stories aren't published nor brought to public attention. 

No, because that's not news. 

But when 90% of the people in ICUs are unvaccinated, and the unvaccinated make up 10% of the population as a whole, then that is news.

Do you get it yet?

[Stonker]

6 hours ago, Rangers said:

The European commission chief was asking for an EU meeting this week to discuss mandatory vaccines, was the headline in the financial Times during the week. Its either media mischief making (for a change) or something that will actually be discussed between the countries. Once Germany does it, the rest will follow the leader. 

There's a world of difference between one country following another country's lead and the EU making vaccines mandatory, which is what you suggested.

The former is voluntary and entirely up to individual countries, while the latter is ... well ... mandatory.

The EU simply doesn't have the authority to impose mandatory vaccinations on member countries and every country is fully entitled to follow it's own policy.

The FT article you referred to is 100% clear about that:

"Ursula von der Leyen told reporters in Brussels that she believed it was appropriate to have a “discussion” on the matter given how many people remain unvaccinated against Covid-19 in the union — although she stressed that such rules were strictly a decision for member states."

That's repeated elsewhere, for example in France24:

"In Brussels, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said it was “understandable and appropriate” to discuss how to “encourage and potentially think about mandatory vaccination” in the bloc—although only individual member states can impose vaccine mandates"

and the Guardian:

"Health policy remains a national competence"

and the BBC:

"Only individual EU states can enforce vaccine mandates and some are already taking steps in that direction."

and Bloomberg:

"The EU doesn’t have the authority to impose vaccination mandates,..."

 

 

 

[JohninDublin]

8 hours ago, Rangers said:

It won't be long till the EU make it mandatory ...

They won't.

[Rangers]

10 minutes ago, Stonker said:

There's a world of difference between one country following another country's lead and the EU making vaccines mandatory, which is what you suggested.

The former is voluntary and entirely up to individual countries, while the latter is ... well ... mandatory.

The EU simply doesn't have the authority to impose mandatory vaccinations on member countries and every country is fully entitled to follow it's own policy.

The FT article you referred to is 100% clear about that:

"Ursula von der Leyen told reporters in Brussels that she believed it was appropriate to have a “discussion” on the matter given how many people remain unvaccinated against Covid-19 in the union — although she stressed that such rules were strictly a decision for member states."

That's repeated elsewhere, for example in France24:

"In Brussels, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said it was “understandable and appropriate” to discuss how to “encourage and potentially think about mandatory vaccination” in the bloc—although only individual member states can impose vaccine mandates"

and the Guardian:

"Health policy remains a national competence"

and the BBC:

"Only individual EU states can enforce vaccine mandates and some are already taking steps in that direction."

and Bloomberg:

"The EU doesn’t have the authority to impose vaccination mandates,..."

 

Maybe so, but i'm sure you know how the EU operates. Germany do things and pressure the rest to do the same. As from February it looks like Germany are going mandatory according to Merkel, so let's see what follows from there. 

[JohninDublin]

7 hours ago, yselmike said:

The front page of the times today....A whopping 90% of the COVID patients needing specialist care are unvaccinated! 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/doctors-and-nurses-vent-anger-as-unvaccinated-covid-cases-delay-vital-operations-z3zchvv9l

Per capita, the unvaxxed in Ireland are taking up 6X the hospital beds and 7X the ICU beds as the vaxxed.

I know there are some among the unvaxxed who are adopting a "wait and see" attitude to the vax while there are those who will not be vaxxed under any circumstances for fear of what harm vaxxing may do many years down the line. To deal with that latter group first, I am unaware of any vax that has had adverse effects attributed it years later. That is to say, that maybe 20 years later, something happens to a bunch of people, such as they suddenly lose  the ability to lift a limb. whose only common factor was that they all received a CV vax. But I suppose there is always a first time. However, to the best of my knowledge, proven adverse reactions to vaccines have always been in close proximity to the vaxxing itself. 

But thinking about the other group, I wonder how many people have heard of "Post-Polio Syndrome"? Probably not many have heard of it. What happens is that someone becomes infected as a child, and makes an apparently full recovery, and 30 to 50 years later they are struck by a fast onset of unexplained muscle weakness and in the most extreme cases, paralysis. All these cases have in common, is that they all survived polio as a child. What are the chances that a mass of those who survive and 30-50 years down the line suffers some unusual ailment where the only common link is that they all had CV and were never vaxxed? 

So basically, the two concerns are based on firstly a precedent that has never occurred, while secondly ignoring an albeit, unlikely to reoccur precedent that has.

I would never wish to see compulsory vaxxing, but I do think it's not only right, but also eminently sensible to separate the vaxxed from the unvaxxed. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution, and if you choose not be vaxxed, then your best way to be part of the latter, is not to mix with those that you might infect or might infect you until this problem is resolved.

[riclag]

1 hour ago, JohninDubin said:

I would never wish to see compulsory vaxxing, but I do think it's not only right, but also eminently sensible to separate the vaxxed from the unvaxxed. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution, and if you choose not be vaxxed, then your best way to be part of the latter, is not to mix with those that you might infect or might infect you until this problem is resolved.

The first OMI  in the USA was a vaxer ,because of them ,they brought the  variant  to California!

God forbid if they mixed with others ! 

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, Rangers said:

Maybe so, but i'm sure you know how the EU operates. Germany do things and pressure the rest to do the same. As from February it looks like Germany are going mandatory according to Merkel, so let's see what follows from there. 

There is no "maybe" - what you claimed was totally incorrect.

It isn't the media that's making "mischief", at least in this case.

[Stonker]

7 hours ago, Rain said:

....and what of the greater percentage of infected [unvaccinated] that recover easily, mild cases, asymptomatic, etc? Bet those stories aren't published nor brought to public attention. 

What of them?

They're not taking up hospital beds and delaying operations. It's like saying why publish stories about rape when the greater percentage of people don't commit rape.

6 hours ago, RampantRabbit said:

what  pissed  me  off from the start was the  way it was mentioned that if u got  covid for sure it was  gonna  kill you, certainly presented it that way ,when the reality was the death rate  was  about 2  % with many having little  to no symptoms.............cue long covid replies

No, cue replies that what you've claimed isn't correct.

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

They won't.

Not "won't" - the EU can't. The EU simply doesn't have the authority to do so.

[RampantRabbit]

35 minutes ago, Stonker said:

What of them?

They're not taking up hospital beds and delaying operations. It's like saying why publish stories about rape when the greater percentage of people don't commit rape.

No, cue replies that what you've claimed isn't correct.

theyll  be  along sometime

[Stardust]

4 hours ago, Rangers said:

Maybe so, but i'm sure you know how the EU operates. Germany do things and pressure the rest to do the same. As from February it looks like Germany are going mandatory according to Merkel, so let's see what follows from there. 

Do you know Merkel isn't anymore in the Government?!

[Stonker]

21 minutes ago, RampantRabbit said:

theyll  be  along sometime

Well, you've already had mine ...

[Stardust]

18 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Do you know Merkel isn't anymore in the Government?!

By the way the mandatory what is on the table is for people who work with people at risk care homes for old people. It is more about which professions hast to be vaccinated.

[HiuMak]

8 hours ago, PhayakPeter said:

The world's population is too large, this is natures way of reducing it. Every other time the population has been to large there has been diseases or wars to reduce it. Better diseases do it. 

only the strong survive and virus selects those with good DNA?