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Are new COVID variants like Omicron linked to low vaccine coverage? Here’s what the science says


El_Trauco
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"For now, any relationship between vaccine coverage and new SARS-CoV-2 variants is unclear."

Whilst there is a clear indication that large amounts of unvaccinated people becoming infected quickly, leads to new strains (India-Delta and Africa-Omicron etc.), that does not mean that there is a direct causal link.  The experts do not exactly how a virus mutates and what causes it to mutate and exactly when it will mutate. However, because there has been a lot of data gathered about Covid, in the future they will probably be able to do the analysis and research and come up with the causal links. Until then it is all speculation.

What is clear to me is that I would rather be vaccinated when I get Covid, that not vaccinated - and Covid aint going away anytime soon. 

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2 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

"For now, any relationship between vaccine coverage and new SARS-CoV-2 variants is unclear."

Whilst there is a clear indication that large amounts of unvaccinated people becoming infected quickly, leads to new strains (India-Delta and Africa-Omicron etc.), that does not mean that there is a direct causal link.  The experts do not exactly how a virus mutates and what causes it to mutate and exactly when it will mutate. However, because there has been a lot of data gathered about Covid, in the future they will probably be able to do the analysis and research and come up with the causal links. Until then it is all speculation.

What is clear to me is that I would rather be vaccinated when I get Covid, that not vaccinated - and Covid aint going away anytime soon. 

Actually although still early days as you correctly stated Bob but some promising signs that the vaccinated are better protected is being revealed.

Although the less flu like of all the variants (mostly headache and lack of energy being the major symptoms) it has shown so far that the unvaccinated are at a higher risk.

Will be interesting to see what further research reveals but this particular strain seems to hit males between 20 and 40 years of age that are unvaccinated the hardest.

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Good comment AB.

However the science is clear that increased replication introduces increased errors in that process. Many of the errors are of no consequence or result in the virus being impaired as there is a cost to the organism. On occasion the mutations accrue in such a manner that the organism gains an advantage.

The data on Tuberculosis is well understood as a result of extensive research.

It takes 103 number of organism to have a mutant that is resistant to the commonly used drug Isoniazid.

It takes 107 number of organisms to have a mutant that is resistant to another commonly used drug Rifampin.

To have a mutant resistant to both Rifampin and Isoniazid you need 1010 number of organisms.

This is the reason active TB is never treated with a single drug.

Unfettered replication (no vaccine, masking, social distancing) is a recipe for the emergence of an escape variant. 

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Bottom line is we don't know if unvaccinated cause mutations.  What we do know however is that vaccinated can get the virus and if you can get the virus then of course it can mutate.  Leaky vaccines can cause mutations. 

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7 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

Bottom line is we don't know if unvaccinated cause mutations.  What we do know however is that vaccinated can get the virus and if you can get the virus then of course it can mutate.  Leaky vaccines can cause mutations. 

The point you seem to missing is that viral replication by it's nature produces mutations.

While vaccines are not perfect, they are the best chance to reduce mutations in the host by reducing viral load.

Lower virus load..fewer chances to produce the escape variant. 

That's not that hard to understand. Right?

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1 minute ago, El_Trauco said:

The point you seem to missing is that viral replication by it's nature produces mutations.

While vaccines are not perfect, they are the best chance to reduce mutations in the host by reducing viral load.

Lower virus load..fewer chances to produce the escape variant. 

That's not that hard to understand. Right?

That's not the point.  No one is arguing that except you.  The point is that leaky vaccines can cause mutations what is so hard to understand about that.

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Members,

It is suggested that due to the scientific community, as widely reported, has requested time to study and understand the Omicron variant of Covid-19, before making any scientific commentary, it is equally considered wise for Members to refrain similarly in associated commentary, unless updated proof is provided.

Otherwise member speculation may simply be deemed as misleading requiring Moderators to remove such posts.

Moderator

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13 hours ago, El_Trauco said:

Citation please.

 

Here's what the science says? Here's what reality says...

We're not allowed to see the "science." We only get ever evolving medically opinionated platitudes from sources like "The Conversation." There is no credible evidence and here's why...

The U.S. federal government shields Pfizer from liability in the U.S.  Governments and for profit entities give for profit companies billions of dollars.  Increasingly forces all of us to take these experimental products.  But then won’t let us see the data supporting its product’s safety and efficacy.  How is that science again? 

The lesson yet again is that civil and individual rights should never be contingent upon a medical procedures, let alone experimental ones.  Everyone who wants to get vaccinated and boosted should be free to do so.  But nobody should be coerced by the government to partake in any medical procedure.  Certainly not one where the government wants to hide the full information relied upon for its licensure until the year 2076!

https://www.sirillp.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/020-Second-Joint-Status-Report-8989f1fed17e2d919391d8df1978006e.pdf

Edited by Freeduhdumb
Grammar correction additional content.
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20 hours ago, mickkotlarski said:

and lack of energy being the major symptoms

Ive had that since birth........ would  happily  spend all  day everyday in bed

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Dear Mr dumb,

This is not a thread concerning FOIA requests.

If you have credible evidence that...

 

 

23 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

The science is clear... despite your booster, you're all un-vaccinated. 😲🤭🤣

Please provide it.

Your attempt at deflection is not appreciated.

Start your own thread about FOIA if you wish.

There may be an audience for these tactics in CCC.

Here you will need to stay on topic.

Thanks for your understanding.

 

 

 

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On 11/29/2021 at 7:18 PM, El_Trauco said:

Good comment AB.

However the science is clear that increased replication introduces increased errors in that process. Many of the errors are of no consequence or result in the virus being impaired as there is a cost to the organism. On occasion the mutations accrue in such a manner that the organism gains an advantage.

The data on Tuberculosis is well understood as a result of extensive research.

It takes 103 number of organism to have a mutant that is resistant to the commonly used drug Isoniazid.

It takes 107 number of organisms to have a mutant that is resistant to another commonly used drug Rifampin.

To have a mutant resistant to both Rifampin and Isoniazid you need 1010 number of organisms.

This is the reason active TB is never treated with a single drug.

Unfettered replication (no vaccine, masking, social distancing) is a recipe for the emergence of an escape variant. 

 

Show me a citation from a respected peer reviewed journal that supports your concept.

This is not a thread to promote misinformation.

 

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12 hours ago, El_Trauco said:

Dear Mr dumb,

This is not a thread concerning FOIA requests.

If you have credible evidence that...

Please provide it.

Your attempt at deflection is not appreciated.

Start your own thread about FOIA if you wish.

There may be an audience for these tactics in CCC.

Here you will need to stay on topic.

Thanks for your understanding.

 

Ad hominem

Ad hominem, short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments, some but not all of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

My point is clear, unlike the science. The FOIA request link was a supportive "citation" demonstrating the issue that none of us have the "science" to make any real judgements. Furthermore, that science is being maliciously hidden... why is that? 

The point is, we can all opine and speculate, however none of us are in the necessary field of science to make judgements. And even the so called experts are not able to make necessary judgements because the necessary information is being withheld. 

 

Edited by Freeduhdumb
Grammar correction additional content.
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You said.

On 11/30/2021 at 11:50 AM, Freeduhdumb said:

The science is clear... despite your booster, you're all un-vaccinated. 😲🤭🤣

Then you said.

On 12/1/2021 at 11:15 PM, Freeduhdumb said:

none of us have the "science" to make any real judgements. Furthermore, that science is being maliciously hidden... why is that? 

Which is it?

The "maliciously hidden" part sounds kinda conspiracy theory-ish.

Hidden by whom? The lizard people? Bill Gates? George Soros? Hillary Clinton? The Illuminati?

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On 12/1/2021 at 11:08 PM, Freeduhdumb said:

Show me a citation from a respected peer reviewed journal that supports your concept.

This is not a thread to promote misinformation.

Here you go. I will provide you with a starter.

https://respiratory-research.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/rr54

You're being very Omicron about this.

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On 11/30/2021 at 11:50 AM, Freeduhdumb said:

The science is clear... despite your booster, you're all un-vaccinated. 😲🤭🤣

9 out of 10 patients being treated in hospital in the UK are people who are unvaccinated. 

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