News Forum - Deadline on Friday to apply for 60-day “Covid” visa extension

[Stonker]

  On 11/27/2021 at 4:45 AM, Faz said:

I don't know how you reach that conclusion.

Foreigners have to apply for the extensions subject to their current permission of stay dates, not at the end of the cut off application dates. Immigration won't process them to far in advance, usually 7-14 days.

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  On 11/27/2021 at 5:02 AM, Faz said:

That isn't how it works Stonker.

If I currently had a Covid extension until 20th December, it's extremely doubtful and I know for sure at my Immigration office, they wouldn't grant a further extension before the end of this month, they'd advise to come 7 days before, e.g 13th December.
Any further extension would also be dated to the 20th of a future month.

Immigration offices must be receiving 100's of Covid extension applications daily and in 60 day cycles.
It's not just tourists taking advantage, there are thousands of long term stayers taking advantage as well.

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I came to that conclusion based on what those who've had to do Covid extensions have said they've had to do in Phuket and Pattaya, and when they've had to re-apply, rather than someone's opinion based on what he knows of his "local rural Immigration office in Issan" who hasn't had to.

I really don't think that's unreasonable.

[Stonker]

  On 11/27/2021 at 4:53 AM, Fluke said:

The cut off date was on Friday , I was at immigration on the Tuesday and Wednesday , I expect that Thursday and Friday would have seen more people there applying for extensions 

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Exactly,@Fluke. According to all those who've commented before who've had to do it themselves, if you leave it until after the cut off date you won't get an extension even if your own extension hasn't expired by that cut off date.

That seems perfectly understandable and what I would have expected, and what you're saying is exactly what all those who've commented on this before have said - cut off dates are cut off dates.

I think I'll leave it at that before I get dizzy going round in a circle .

[Faz]

  On 11/27/2021 at 5:49 AM, Stonker said:

I came to that conclusion based on what those who've had to do Covid extensions have said they've had to do in Phuket and Pattaya, and when they've had to re-apply, rather than someone's opinion based on what he knows of his "local rural Immigration office in Issan" who hasn't had to.

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Wrong assumption Stonker.
I 'have' submitted applications for Covid extensions and probably converse with my local Immigration office more times in a month than you do with yours in a year.

[Griff1315]

  On 11/24/2021 at 10:08 AM, Soidog said:

I really don’t understand this being offered to everyone. I would have thought there were only a handful of countries that still do not permit entry? Why would anyone from a European country or the US be granted an extension on the grounds of Covid?  I realise “border runs” aren’t possible, but the government are always claiming they try to stop such practice. Maybe they do love us after all

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Not love 

[oldschooler]

Covid Extentions will I believe continue Indefinitely (for control reason I stated above).

Just go in to Imm. on extention expiry working day, to get the “under consideration” stamp in passport, as new extention will start only from application day. Return in seven days to get actual Covid Extention stamp.

If you go in 7-14 days before extn. expiry, you just lose those 7-14 days from new extn period. so no point unless you just cant get into imm. on expiry date for any reason.

[Fluke]

  On 11/27/2021 at 5:58 AM, Stonker said:

Exactly,@Fluke. According to all those who've commented before who've had to do it themselves, if you leave it until after the cut off date you won't get an extension even if your own extension hasn't expired by that cut off date.

That seems perfectly understandable and what I would have expected, and what you're saying is exactly what all those who've commented on this before have said - cut off dates are cut off dates.

I think I'll leave it at that before I get dizzy going round in a circle .

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But people are primarily governed by their permission to stay date , if their PTS expires on the 15 th , they would have to apply for an extension before that date , otherwise they would be on overstay if they applied on the cut off day (26 th) .

  So people apply for extensions on different days throughout  the month . 

[Stonker]

  On 11/27/2021 at 6:08 AM, Faz said:

Wrong assumption Stonker.
I 'have' submitted applications for Covid extensions and probably converse with my local Immigration office more times in a month than you do with yours in a year.

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I made no assumptions, @Faz,  simply repeated what all others have said when talking about their own first hand experiences in Pattaya and Phuket when submitting their own Covid extension applications there, as has anyone else submitting their own Covid extension applications anywhere else who's commented on it here - (edit) at least based on what they've said.

If your experience in what you described as your "local rural Immigration office in Issan" is different when submitting the same applications for others, so be it.

As is frequently said here, different immigration offices have different rules.

No offence, but under the circumstances I'm simply going along with everyone else's reported experience in their immigration offices, which differs from yours.

As I said to @Fluke, I think I'll leave it at that as we're simply going round in ever decreasing circles.

[LoongFred]

We the vaccine program rolled out in Aug it took time to reach 50-60k level. Almost (maybe all) in my province appeared to be retirees.  I'd assume this was a bellwether of how may people were still around. When the squeeze took place around Sept-Oct many probably left. I assume those left were those doing visa runs, and the smart ones saw that visa runs weren't going to go on forever.

Sounds like no one has accurate figures, so I'd refrain from saying a number.

  On 11/25/2021 at 7:39 AM, Wasminbe said:

First of all, yes you are up in arms about it, otherwise you wouldn't be ranting on about it so much and letting it bother you.

Second of all, yes I do own a house and a company here, so who are you to say any different?

Third of all, I am fully aware of the 800,000 Baht minimum requirement for a retirement visa. I stated minimum requirement only, not money's spent throughout the year.-Time for you to brush up on your mathematics old boy.

If there was a red balloon floating through the air, you would say it's blue just to start an argument with someone. Don't be fooled Stonker, all of us on these forums know being a troll is what you thrive on.

Do yourself a favor old man, and get a hobby other than being a troll. If not, you're bound to get so worked up you may bring on a self induced heart attack.

I will now heed the advice of a different poster from about 3 weeks ago, when he encouraged everybody to ignore your ignorant comments and you will go away.

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You don't make sense. You said you own a house and company here, but are on a tourist visa that's extended because of Covid. You need to learn how to do things correctly.

[Faz]

  On 11/27/2021 at 6:36 AM, LoongFred said:

When the squeeze took place around Sept-Oct many probably left. I assume those left were those doing visa runs, and the smart ones saw that visa runs weren't going to go on forever.

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Border runs haven't been possible since March 2020.

  On 11/27/2021 at 6:36 AM, LoongFred said:

You said you own a house and company here, but are on a tourist visa that's extended because of Covid.

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Why, do you need to be on some kind of special Visa to own a house and/or be a shareholder or director of a company in Thailand.?

[Stonker]

  On 11/27/2021 at 5:34 AM, oldschooler said:

Pragmatically, and supplemental to the Faz explanation, the Covid Extention is the ONLY way for Immigration to systematically control perhaps 50-80,000 foreigners choosing to stay here long term without Longstay Visa / Extention.

Govt. simply cant have this huge number of foreigners at large here and on computer as overstay ! Eventually, they would turn up at Border Exits and have to be banned for 1-5 years from returning here…big loss of income for thailand from people loving the place, and inhumane if having family here.

Glad to see that the minority “just go home” crowd here have been politely told to wind their necks in……

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... but no-one's saying "just go home"!

What a number of people are saying, of whom I'm one, is that many of those on Covid extensions are openly abusing the system and giving the rest of us here a bad name, either as begpackers, by not wearing masks, or by working illegally.

"Many", but far from all. 

Others, like @Svcoquette, will have a valid reason for being unable to leave but they will also be tarred by the same brush through no fault of their own because they have little option.

Others will be in a 'grey' area, able to get a marriage or retirement extension / visa, as they're known, but for any number of reasons they don't want to so they're taking advantage of the system rather than openly abusing it. 

  On 11/27/2021 at 5:34 AM, oldschooler said:

Some of us here have no “home” except here, with high value properties, businesses, families, transport, etc.here, and in any case are staying legally here. Certainly on that basis we have earned also the moral right to settle or be based here.

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Well if someone has a business here, that's the sort of visa they should have otherwise they're not staying here legally on a tourist visa with a Covid extension and they're giving those who are here legally a bad name.

It's not possible to have it both ways.

  On 11/27/2021 at 5:34 AM, oldschooler said:

We all have the option to get here Longstay Visas, either direct / with financials, or via Agents at low cost / no financials, or Covid Extention direct.

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Sorry, but if your only option is "via Agents at low cost / no financials" then it's illegal, contributes little to the country apart from promoting and endorsing corruption, and reflects badly on all expats here, end of story.

[Stonker]

  On 11/27/2021 at 8:31 AM, Faz said:

Why, do you need to be on some kind of special Visa to own a house and/or be a shareholder or director of a company in Thailand.?

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To "own a house"? Yes.

To "be a shareholder or director of a company in Thailand" ?

No.

To "own a company" or run a business while here, which was the point addressed to me, hence my interest, but which @LoongFred replied to?

Yes.

[oldschooler]

some substantial naivety here about Imm. legality & morality by applying non- applicable western ideals & practices. 

everyone who has a visa / extn. stamped in passport & on Imm. computer, within expiry date, is here legally.

it matters not how that visa was obtained.Imm. are going to audit themselves now are they ?

now compliance with visa terms post- visa can be and is sometimes checked and visas revoked but it’s incredibly rare and invariably results from basic farang error.

for example a Retirement Visa / Extn. is issued by Agent from Chonburi but farang foolishly & unsuccessfully attempts to 90 day report direct to Phuket. must use Agent back to Chonburi Imm. for that ! or, away from the “language school” too long and questioned on re- entry……

now here’s the red pill…….. any perceived world of legality,rules  & morals here, is indeed an illusion ……

Immigration ( all Thai Govt. in fact) have carefully designed their systems here for maximum foreigner profit / control / humiliation ( in that order).

you don’t really think that not ever touching 400- 800k baht, in thai bank, is a legit visa need ?

or all that bank account type / bank letter duplicating bank statements nonsense ? seriously ?

Imm.system includes for Agents (who are often themselves Imm. Officers) and essentially there are No Rules as senior IO’s can legally override any and all Imm. “rules”. yes, there is actually a rule that states that.

now, are we starting to see the truth here ? That Agents are actually “Preferred” by Imm. ! Fee Sharing. That the market for Agents is actually created by the Visa “Financials” which in turn are only for Difficulty & Humiliation…….circling back to…. Agents.

Local Municipal Tambon are in fact the ultimate example. Foreigner Yellow House Reg. Book (Tabien Baan) often ( my case with no Agent) carries No Profit and Little Control so cut straight to Maximum Humiliation with a nightmare 12 wk bs admin process.

Lesson Learned : EVERYTHING here is Legally Connectable, Discretionary and Buyable.

[Changnam43]

I think another thing that may be driving the continuation of these extensions is the following:

In the days of the border run all the visa income from that went to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

With the sixty day Covid extensions that income stream now goes to the Immigration Department and very little work is involved in processing the applications by comparison with other types of extension.  There is no reason to believe that this system is causing problems for society.  As a healthy income is generated I imagine that Immigration argue quite hard for the retention of this scheme.  

[Faz]

  On 11/27/2021 at 6:27 AM, Stonker said:

I made no assumptions, @Faz,  simply repeated what all others have said when talking about their own first hand experiences in Pattaya and Phuket when submitting their own Covid extension applications there, as has anyone else submitting their own Covid extension applications anywhere else who's commented on it here - (edit) at least based on what they've said.

If your experience in what you described as your "local rural Immigration office in Issan" is different when submitting the same applications for others, so be it.

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Despite what you may have read, I can assure you the dates foreigners apply for a further 60 day extension is subject to the date they entered the Country and the date of the permission of stay granted on their stamp.

If a foreigner who entered on say Sept 2nd, Visa exempt and granted a 30 day stay until Oct 1st, he would need to apply for a 60 day extension before Oct 1st, and couldn't wait and apply at the end of the current application period cut of date of Nov 30th, otherwise he'd be on overstay. The 60 day Covid scheme has been extended 2 months at a time by Immigration for several months. The date foreigners apply for that 60 day extension is subject to their permission of stay date.

[BraveNewFahrenheit]

  On 11/25/2021 at 8:12 AM, Fluke said:

Not only is it not your problem, it completely has nothing to do with you and none of your business , so, dont worry yourself about it 

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Its odd how these types want everyone to leave but also say we are in the midst of the worst pandemic ever. I say we need to shut down all flights worldwide for omicron for next 90 days just to be sure!!!

[LoongFred]

  On 11/27/2021 at 11:31 AM, Changnam43 said:

I think another thing that may be driving the continuation of these extensions is the following:

In the days of the border run all the visa income from that went to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

With the sixty day Covid extensions that income stream now goes to the Immigration Department and very little work is involved in processing the applications by comparison with other types of extension.  There is no reason to believe that this system is causing problems for society.  As a healthy income is generated I imagine that Immigration argue quite hard for the retention of this scheme.  

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After administrative cost, I don't see that the extension fee of b1900 amount to anything. Especially if divided into numerous pockets.  I don't think Thai immigration likes all the extra processing. It's likely just a pain in the xxx.

[oldschooler]

  On 11/27/2021 at 8:50 AM, Stonker said:

... but no-one's saying "just go home"!

What a number of people are saying, of whom I'm one, is that many of those on Covid extensions are openly abusing the system and giving the rest of us here a bad name, either as begpackers, by not wearing masks, or by working illegally.

"Many", but far from all. 

Others, like @Svcoquette, will have a valid reason for being unable to leave but they will also be tarred by the same brush through no fault of their own because they have little option.

Others will be in a 'grey' area, able to get a marriage or retirement extension / visa, as they're known, but for any number of reasons they don't want to so they're taking advantage of the system rather than openly abusing it. 

Well if someone has a business here, that's the sort of visa they should have otherwise they're not staying here legally on a tourist visa with a Covid extension and they're giving those who are here legally a bad name.

It's not possible to have it both ways.

Sorry, but if your only option is "via Agents at low cost / no financials" then it's illegal, contributes little to the country apart from promoting and endorsing corruption, and reflects badly on all expats here, end of story.

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such a long rebuttal ; with almost every word being complete nonsense……. 

[Faz]

  On 11/27/2021 at 8:50 AM, Stonker said:

... but no-one's saying "just go home"!

What a number of people are saying, of whom I'm one, is that many of those on Covid extensions are openly abusing the system and giving the rest of us here a bad name, either as begpackers, by not wearing masks, or by working illegally.

"Many", but far from all. 

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Where are these 'many' that state the 60 day Covid extensions are being abused.

If the begpackers don't want to return home due to the current Covid situation and pay the 1,900 BHT fee they are legally complying with the regulations.

Not wearing masks or working illegally are a different subject, but where do you arrive at the conclusion that these offenders are using the 60 day Covid scheme.

[Stonker]

  On 11/28/2021 at 2:30 AM, Faz said:

Despite what you may have read, I can assure you the dates foreigners apply for a further 60 day extension is subject to the date they entered the Country and the date of the permission of stay granted on their stamp.

If a foreigner who entered on say Sept 2nd, Visa exempt and granted a 30 day stay until Oct 1st, he would need to apply for a 60 day extension before Oct 1st, and couldn't wait and apply at the end of the current application period cut of date of Nov 30th, otherwise he'd be on overstay. The 60 day Covid scheme has been extended 2 months at a time by Immigration for several months. The date foreigners apply for that 60 day extension is subject to their permission of stay date.

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You seem to have completely misunderstood what I've been saying, so it's hardly surprising that you've disagreed.

I've never suggested in any way that a foreigner can " wait and apply at the end of the current application period cut of date of Nov 30th".

What I've been saying, consistently and I thought quite clearly, is the complete opposite.

What I've been saying is that based on what those who've done the Covid extension in Phuket and Pattaya have said,  those offices have allowed foreigners to apply early, before their visa / extension is due to expire, so that they can stay for the maximum period possible.

If they didn't allow that, those whose extensions / visas  expired on, say,  November 29th would be allowed to stay for two more months (until January 28th) while those whose visas expired on, say, December 7, would only be allowed to stay until December 7 so only one more week.

What you're saying, on the other hand, is that your immigration office doesn't do that and doesn't allow anyone to apply early so some will be considerably more fortunate than others and allowed a considerably longer stay depending not on their visa but just on when they arrived (30 days vs 90).

Evidently, as is normal, different immigration offices apply the rules in different ways.

Having re-read what I've posted, I can only say that I have no idea how you've come to the conclusion you have about what I've written as it's the polar opposite to what's written.

[Stonker]

  On 11/27/2021 at 6:14 AM, oldschooler said:

If you go in 7-14 days before extn. expiry, you just lose those 7-14 days from new extn period. so no point unless you just cant get into imm. on expiry date for any reason.

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Of course there's a point!

If the cut off date is 30 November and your extension expiry date is 7 December, and you don't go early then you have to leave on 7 December.

If you go early, though, before the cut off date, you can then stay until 28 January.

It's the difference between being allowed to stay for another week and another two months!

While that's apparently allowed in Phuket and Pattaya, which is what I've been saying, apparently that's not allowed in @Faz's immigration office.  There may be "no point" going early in @Faz's office, but there's plenty of point elsewhere - two months vs one week!

[Stonker]

  On 11/27/2021 at 9:51 AM, oldschooler said:

some substantial naivety here about Imm. legality & morality by applying non- applicable western ideals & practices. 

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Well, there's certainly some substantial and very surprising naivety here, but I don't think it's down to "applying non- applicable western ideals & practices" so much as either completely mis-reading what's been written or a seriously surprising lack of knowledge..

  On 11/27/2021 at 9:51 AM, oldschooler said:

everyone who has a visa / extn. stamped in passport & on Imm. computer, within expiry date, is here legally.

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No, that's not correct, whether it's for a Covid extension or anything else. If the information you (or an agent) has submitted, then your visa / extension isn't valid. That's the same in pretty much any country.

  On 11/27/2021 at 9:51 AM, oldschooler said:

it matters not how that visa was obtained.Imm. are going to audit themselves now are they ?

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If you mean 'Imm. are not going to audit themselves now are they ?' the answer's yes they are and yes they do. How in depth that is is a different matter, but they certainly do.

  On 11/27/2021 at 9:51 AM, oldschooler said:

you don’t really think that not ever touching 400- 800k baht, in thai bank, is a legit visa need ?

or all that bank account type / bank letter duplicating bank statements nonsense ? seriously ?

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It's not what I think that matters - just what Immigration require, whether it's for a Covid extension or anything else.

  On 11/27/2021 at 9:51 AM, oldschooler said:

Imm.system includes for Agents (who are often themselves Imm. Officers) and essentially there are No Rules as senior IO’s can legally override any and all Imm. “rules”. yes, there is actually a rule that states that.

now, are we starting to see the truth here ? That Agents are actually “Preferred” by Imm. ! Fee Sharing. That the market for Agents is actually created by the Visa “Financials” which in turn are only for Difficulty & Humiliation…….circling back to…. Agents.

Local Municipal Tambon are in fact the ultimate example. Foreigner Yellow House Reg. Book (Tabien Baan) often ( my case with no Agent) carries No Profit and Little Control so cut straight to Maximum Humiliation with a nightmare 12 wk bs admin process.

Lesson Learned : EVERYTHING here is Legally Connectable, Discretionary and Buyable.

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If you're in favour of perpetuating and supporting corruption here, fine.  Not all of us are.

[Stonker]

  On 11/27/2021 at 11:31 AM, Changnam43 said:

In the days of the border run all the visa income from that went to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

With the sixty day Covid extensions that income stream now goes to the Immigration Department and very little work is involved in processing the applications by comparison with other types of extension. 

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Thanks, @Changnam43, I wasn't aware of that - very interesting.

  On 11/27/2021 at 11:31 AM, Changnam43 said:

There is no reason to believe that this system is causing problems for society.  As a healthy income is generated I imagine that Immigration argue quite hard for the retention of this scheme.  

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Not so sure about that, though .

[Faz]

  On 11/28/2021 at 3:55 AM, Stonker said:

If they didn't allow that, those whose extensions / visas  expired on, say,  November 29th would be allowed to stay for two more months (until January 28th) while those whose visas expired on, say, December 7, would only be allowed to stay until December 7 so only one more week.

What you're saying, on the other hand, is that your immigration office doesn't do that and doesn't allow anyone to apply early so some will be considerably more fortunate than others and allowed a considerably longer stay depending not on their visa but just on when they arrived (30 days vs 90).

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If you re-read what I stated was that most Immigration offices will allow you to apply 7-14 days before your current permission of stay expires for 60 day Covid extensions - but they won't allow you to apply 30 days beforehand as they do with 1 year annual extensions of stay.  

  On 11/27/2021 at 4:45 AM, Faz said:

Foreigners have to apply for the extensions subject to their current permission of stay dates, not at the end of the cut off application dates. Immigration won't process them to far in advance, usually 7-14 days.

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Would you like to retract your further quoted statement underneath after I've quoted what I previously stated, instead of misquoting others to suit your storyline.

  On 11/28/2021 at 4:05 AM, Stonker said:

While that's apparently allowed in Phuket and Pattaya, which is what I've been saying, apparently that's not allowed in @Faz's immigration office.  There may be "no point" going early in @Faz's office, but there's plenty of point elsewhere - two months vs one week!

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[Stonker]

  On 11/28/2021 at 3:46 AM, Faz said:

Where are these 'many' that state the 60 day Covid extensions are being abused.

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You've evidently completely mis-read what I've written, again.

I don't say or suggest in any possible way that there are " 'many' that state the 60 day Covid extensions are being abused."

  On 11/28/2021 at 3:46 AM, Faz said:

If the begpackers don't want to return home due to the current Covid situation and pay the 1,900 BHT fee they are legally complying with the regulations.

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That's not actually correct.

According to the "regulations", the Covid extensions aren't for those who "don't want to return home", although that's what they appear to have become by those abusing them, whether individuals or agents, but are for those "unable to leave due to limited flights or other issues", with embassies and immigration offices giving vaccinations as an example of the "other issues".

Very, very different.

  On 11/28/2021 at 3:46 AM, Faz said:

Not wearing masks or working illegally are a different subject, but where do you arrive at the conclusion that these offenders are using the 60 day Covid scheme.

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I've arrived at the conclusion that some areabusing the Covid extensions (but, again, far from all) because that's what I've been told by a number of those living in Pattaya from first hand knowledge, and also as far as working illegally goes what's been reported here and commented on.

[Faz]

  On 11/28/2021 at 4:17 AM, Stonker said:

No, that's not correct, whether it's for a Covid extension or anything else. If the information you (or an agent) has submitted, then your visa / extension isn't valid. That's the same in pretty much any country.

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That is absolute nonsense Stonker.

It clearly states on a TM7 form (Application for extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom)  'Applicant must submit the application in person with the exceptions of handicapped patients or persons with disabilities'.
Alternatively you can also sign a 'Power of Attorney' for A N Other to do it on your behalf.

I submit extension applications on behalf of 'handicapped persons or with disabilities' all the time, including 60 day Covid extensions. Both the application process and extension stamp are perfectly legitimate.

As for: 'That's the same in pretty much any Country' is again false.
You can quite legally submit Visa applications on behalf of the applicant. The application forms usually request the name and contact details of the person completing and submitting the application, which is not the same as the applicant themselves.