News Forum - Austria to enter lockdown Monday, Germany may follow

[Bob20]

6 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I’m not sure if you posted a partial comment? Did everyone pitch in and did it flatten the initial curve wherever it was? 

I still think that if we had all been given one of these, we could have prevented the whole thing!

[Stardust]

34 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I think much of that is correct. However, just one thing to add if I may. Your comments about outside restaurants being open and linking it to sun light has missed an important point. Although it’s true warm weather and UV from the sun will all reduce the ability of the Covid virus to survive, the main thing about outdoor versus indoor, is air movement or ventilation.  Being outside (even at night when no sunlight) is still far far safer than inside. This is due to the movement of air dispersing fine aerosols containing the virus.
 

However as you rightly say:

Cold temperatures as seen in much of Europe in winter -5 to+10, low UV in winter and Indoor settings with low or recirculated air are all perfect for the virus.  

Sure this also a reason, no doubt about that.

[Soidog]

1 minute ago, longwood50 said:

Yes and that is why outdoor restaurants and bars must remain closed so we can keep people contained inside their homes drinking. 

Well I’ve always though outdoor restaurants and even bars, with adequate social distancing can open safely. What can’t open is busy bars filled with people and loud music playing and people serving walking around with face masks under their chin. So a quiet outside bar with 10-20 people is fine. A packed out bar like you see in Soi Nana or Bangla would be madness. 
 

The authorities however have a problem in defining what I’ve said above. People will ask - is it 10 or 20?  Why not 25? Can I play Music and what does quiet mean? How close can people sit and what about face masks. The result is, that for the authorities charged with controlling the virus, it’s far easier to stipulate and enforce the rules by just closing the bars. You can instantly see if people are breaking rules. Basically, if people were more fair minded, more reasonable and more sensible about all of this, there would be more freedoms. This is true in places like Sweden where people are far more socially responsible. Unfortunately society in general is full of the opposite kind and so locking the buggers down is the only way! 

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

Anecdotal to say - but here is Aust there are always less cases in the warmer parts (Qld and WA) than in those parts with colder climates (VIC and NSW).  Tasmania seemed to avoid that completely by locking the island down - who wants to go backward 50 years anyway .  Seems that the actual outcome is that the virus (Covid and Flu etc) spreads more and quicker in cold weather than in hot places with lots of sunshine.  I remember seeing a study that showed those who were placed in outdoor hospital beds during the Spanish Flu, has a lower fatality rate than those inside the old school closed up and cold hospitals - maybe it is related - sure seems that way. 

The Flu virus has been studied for a long time, and it is a fact that it infects more people in the winter months - the 'seasonal flu' they call it - that is why we get the flu vaccine in April/May - before winter starts in Aust in June/July.   Up north, December to February are the peak influenza months in USA/Europe - what has happened in Austria and Germany might just be the beginning - it is a worry.  COVID-19 infections and deaths are rising in 49 countries - I believe they are all Nth Hemisphere ones.  USA has 1500 deaths a day (highest) with Russia second at 1200. 

Has the World started to open back up too soon? Will more countries follow suit?

The brutal reality and truth is as longer we try to stop the virus longer he will be around I guess it is more like with the spanish flu it stopped after it went through the population. After 2 years we have to realize we failed and keeps the countries in lockdown creates further big damages. If we take the studies of the last few month in europe most had no symptoms or little. This showed what the failure was in the covid management! We should concentrate from the beginning on the people at risk, older people and people with health issues. We could saved more of their lives and could prevent these huge impacts on the economies and peoples live. We could use the resources better and more iffiently to concentrate oon this group of people. It was a great failure and mistake not to do so and nit do so even today as we have so much info and studies now. Still we destroy the ecomies and the resources that would be better used on that group. In my opinion a big failure and not stopped anything.

[longwood50]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

. A packed out bar like you see in Soi Nana or Bangla would be madness. 

Yes far better to have a ride on a BTS train or attend one of the festivals.  Certainly they are less likely to pass covid.  The Pattaya Music festival video certainly displays a restrained demeanor. 
 

Edited November 20, 2021 by longwood50

[Soidog]

47 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

Yes far better to have a ride on a BTS train or attend one of the festivals.  Certainly they are less likely to pass covid.  The Pattaya Music festival video certainly displays a restrained demeanor. 
 

I’m not sure what point you are making? I never suggested the BTS was a safe option or the Pattaya music festival was. I was agreeing that opening an outside bar was acceptable if people were sensible

[Stardust]

54 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

Yes far better to have a ride on a BTS train or attend one of the festivals.  Certainly they are less likely to pass covid.  The Pattaya Music festival video certainly displays a restrained demeanor. 
 

Comon a music festival is not the same as a normal beach day and go for a swim. A bit a absurd 

[vvdb.fr]

to be contagious, it is a question of the density of the virus in a place. if you stay in an enclosed area with a sick person as the sick person breathes, the density of the virus in the air increases to reach the threshold that infects you. when it is cold we live in heated and closed places. new ventilation standards are needed to reduce this risk ... heating and ventilating are complicated if you don't want to spend too much on heating ...

[BangkokBen]

The virus is not going away and vaccinated people very rarely die, so why are countries still locking down?  Is this the accepted way of life for the next 20-100 years?

[Manghkut]

10 hours ago, billywillyjones said:

Germans need to have a close look at their government. 

Even third world countries with a lower hygienic standard and more crowded places than Germany and Austria have a lower number of Covid cases. Germany is ruled by the pharma industry and their lobbyists and everyone is filling their pockets with money including the government people. Now you are required to be vaccinated or tested on a daily basis before you are allowed to go to your workplace. Well the pharma-industry is clapping their hands and the government just follows their advises as they are just marionettes. It is all about the money. 

[HiuMak]

covid 1 - Austria/Germany 0

 

[longwood50]

17 hours ago, Soidog said:

I’m not sure what point you are making? I never suggested the BTS was a safe option or the Pattaya music festival was. I was agreeing that opening an outside bar was acceptable if people were sensible

I am being facetious.  The lack of any common sense in the government.  If it is "true" that gatherings whether in restaurants or bars are likely sources of covid and need to be shut, then certainly riding a BTS train or attending a festival should be banned. 

If you reply well people need to ride the BTS to go to work.  Well true, but the bar owner and restaurant also need to serve alcohol in order to work also.  I know this, if I had to take a risk of contracting covid, I would certainly choose drinking in a bar over going through the lines at the BTS terminal and riding the train packed like sardines.  There are those who say, Oh but the riders wear masks"  If masks were truly effective than the number of people contracting covid would be very low since everyone is wearing a mask most places and the bars are closed. 

[longwood50]

12 hours ago, Manghkut said:

Even third world countries with a lower hygienic standard and more crowded places than Germany and Austria have a lower number of Covid cases

That is true at least as it is reported if one can believe the figures that are reported.  The figures seem to suggest that efforts such as quarantines, hand sanitizers, lock downs, mask mandates, alcohol bans, travel bans, seem to have only minimal effect.  Countries like Portugal and Spain have Europe's highest covid vaccination rate yet are among Europe's highest rate of covid infections per millions. 

It appears as though Covid vaccines are far more effective at minimizing the severity of the Covid infection and are at best only marginally effective at preventing a person from contracting covid.  

I have said from the beginning, we have had decades of vaccines to prevent the flu.  Yet, each and every year and average of  9% of the worlds population contracts it.  If vaccines, and "herd immunity" don't prevent the flu virus I don't know what would give anyone the thought that vaccines and "herd immunity" would protect us from Covid.  With that said, I truly believe the world needs to get the mindset that Covid is now with us and we learn to manage and coexist with it as part of our daily lives.  This idea that somehow we can put the genie back in the bottle is ludicrous.  One person originally contracted covid and it spread throughout the world.  Do you really believe it is possible to get the covid infection rate in the world to zero people so that it does not originate again. 

 

[Soidog]

4 hours ago, longwood50 said:

I am being facetious.  The lack of any common sense in the government.  If it is "true" that gatherings whether in restaurants or bars are likely sources of covid and need to be shut, then certainly riding a BTS train or attending a festival should be banned. 

If you reply well people need to ride the BTS to go to work.  Well true, but the bar owner and restaurant also need to serve alcohol in order to work also.  I know this, if I had to take a risk of contracting covid, I would certainly choose drinking in a bar over going through the lines at the BTS terminal and riding the train packed like sardines.  There are those who say, Oh but the riders wear masks"  If masks were truly effective than the number of people contracting covid would be very low since everyone is wearing a mask most places and the bars are closed. 

I agree with that. If the BTS is used then it should be operating at low capacity. If it’s rammed as it often is in rush hour then it’s a high risk environment. 

[Jason]

Yes Austria and the rest of Europe are in a pickle because of a  "perfect storm". Firstly, vaccinations are not at optimal level and countries opened up (too early...yes it's easy to be wise in hindsight and I only hope my country learns from this mistake). Secondly, they are heading into winter, where people will be inside and unable to distance, so the virus can easily spread to a whole family. Thirdly, these countries were being vaccinated and are now at the outer edge of vaccine protection without booster shots. I can only hope that vaccination becomes the top priority during the winter. And anything that can more easily facilitate that...eg mobile vaccination units that come to the home, will help alleviate things. Of course, luckily thailand doesn't have a winter. So get out there and get vaccinated.