Austria mandatory vaccines and new lockdown

[JohninDublin]

  On 11/21/2021 at 3:58 AM, billywillyjones said:

 It appears you have no respect for minority rights.  In you eyes if the majority has a rule all must follow.  

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I've noticed how often those who invoke "rights" are really quite cavalier about the rights of others. If I have done my best to follow the advice given to me to protect myself, do I not have a right to avoid those who have done nothing, especially if they are from the lunatic fringe that deny that CV even exists?

[JohninDublin]

  On 11/21/2021 at 4:59 AM, Rookiescot said:

No what you are trying to do is portrait yourself as a victim when society imposes sanctions for your decision. That is not going to wash. You have no answer as to why society should accommodate your choices while not doing so for other groups. This is pure hypocrisy. 

You dont want a vaccine. Fair enough. Accept the consequences. 

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I would refer you to my post regarding Typhoid Mary.

[JohninDublin]

  On 11/21/2021 at 5:17 AM, billywillyjones said:

Cigarette smoking is not comparable and should of course be controlled through regulation as it is proven to harm others. 

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. You've effectively contradicted yourself in your first sentence. Covid is also proven to harm others. 

The main reason for smoking bans is passive smoking. Those who die of that, may take 20 years + to do so. The point about taking the various measures to reduce the spread of CV, is that the delivery mechanism is identical to that of passive smoking: breathing in other people's contaminated air. Of course, the difference between the two illnesses, is that CV is virulent enough to kill you in a matter of days, rather than the 20+ yrs that CV takes.

[Artemis080]

I'm vaccinated, but I strongly oppose government overreach in involuntary mandatory medication. It speaks more to the abject failure on their part in being trusted or doing just a bad job.

If the world willingly hands away basic civil liberties concerning the rights of your body, then we should expect more dystopian erosion of those in the future. 

I'm not naive enough to think that the western world is a "free society", but involuntary medical procedures should be a hill we are willing to take a stand.

[PBS]

  On 11/22/2021 at 12:47 AM, Artemis080 said:

I'm vaccinated, but I strongly oppose government overreach in involuntary mandatory medication. It speaks more to the abject failure on their part in being trusted or doing just a bad job.

If the world willingly hands away basic civil liberties concerning the rights of your body, then we should expect more dystopian erosion of those in the future. 

I'm not naive enough to think that the western world is a "free society", but involuntary medical procedures should be a hill we are willing to take a stand.

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Though I disagree with your position, I''l ask a question. Should law be updated  to enable criminal charges against those who decide not to vaccinate and then infect someone with Covid who subsequently dies or becomes seriously ill? In much the same way those with HIV who infect another can be prosecuted?

[NidNoi]

  On 11/22/2021 at 2:25 AM, PBS said:

Though I disagree with your position, I''l ask a question. Should law be updated  to enable criminal charges against those who decide not to vaccinate and then infect someone with Covid who subsequently dies or becomes seriously ill? In much the same way those with HIV who infect another can be prosecuted?

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False. You assume that the non-vaccinated is automatically a Covid carrier which is not the case. Most non-vaccinated are not Covid infected and are not much more carrier than fully vaccinated people (as the actual situation proves it and recognized by the CDC.

So in your terms both non-vaccinated and vaccinated should be charged. The only problem is you need evidence to charge somebody and before you become positive and then sick the unknown perpetrator may be far away (or he may even be one of your family members for example your vaccinated wife).

HIV infected people have no obligation to disclose their status. Their only obligation is to disclose it before having sexual activity then the partner is consenting to the sexual activity at his own risk. There is crime when an HIV infected individual does not disclose his or her status to his or her partner before sexual activity or when there is rape or sexual assault. Otherwise no obligation at all to disclose. Your health status is totally private and shared only with your doctor.

Below is the Canadian law regarding HIV status.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-justice/news/2017/12/fact_sheet_hiv_non-disclosureandthecriminallaw.html

[NidNoi]

  On 11/22/2021 at 2:25 AM, PBS said:

Though I disagree with your position, I''l ask a question. Should law be updated  to enable criminal charges against those who decide not to vaccinate and then infect someone with Covid who subsequently dies or becomes seriously ill? In much the same way those with HIV who infect another can be prosecuted?

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By the way I would like to add that to my knowledge nobody has ever been charged during the tainted blood scandal. Even labs and doctors were not convicted while knowing they gave tainted blood to patients.

In France the convicted were found guilty but exonerated of any sentences (except one person who paid for all the others) and in Canada all charges were dropped.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-blood-idUSN0133829220071001

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infected_blood_scandal_(France)

[PBS]

  On 11/22/2021 at 3:19 AM, NidNoi said:

You assume that the non-vaccinated is automatically a Covid carrier which is not the case. Most non-vaccinated are not Covid infected

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False assumption by you. However, currently vast majority of deaths from Covid 19 in Western countries e.g. USA, are the non vaccinated. In addition to prolonging the disruption to society  people are dying unnecessarily from Covid 19 by refusing to vaccinate, their choice, but personally I view it as utter stupidity to do so.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely

[ninja]

  On 11/21/2021 at 6:46 AM, NidNoi said:

vaccinated with Sinovac and Sinopharm vaccines while everybody knows the poor efficacy of these vaccines.

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I am with you on most of your posts..... but please do not knock Sinovac and Sinopharm .   We need to promote them,  because if there is absolutely no other choice but to be FORCED to inject some chemical, those of us who will not let them put mRNA into our bodies can choose the "traditional" ones.

Not to "protect" us from some virus..... but rather as an option NOT to get the new stuff

[PBS]

  On 11/22/2021 at 7:09 AM, ninja said:

I am with you on most of your posts..... but please do not knock Sinovac and Sinopharm .   We need to promote them,  because if there is absolutely no other choice but to be FORCED to inject some chemical, those of us who will not let them put mRNA into our bodies can choose the "traditional" ones.

Not to "protect" us from some virus..... but rather as an option NOT to get the new stuff

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What is mRNA?

 mRNA itself is not a new invention from the lab. It evolved billions of years ago and is naturally found in every cell in your body. Scientists think RNA originated in the earliest life forms, even before DNA existed.

Here’s a crash course in just what mRNA is and the important job it does.

https://theconversation.com/what-is-mrna-the-messenger-molecule-thats-been-in-every-living-cell-for-billions-of-years-is-the-key-ingredient-in-some-covid-19-vaccines-158511

Edited November 22, 2021 by PBS

[ninja]

  On 11/22/2021 at 8:57 AM, PBS said:

What is mRNA?

 mRNA itself is not a new invention from the lab. It evolved billions of years ago and is naturally found in every cell in your body. Scientists think RNA originated in the earliest life forms, even before DNA existed.

Here’s a crash course in just what mRNA is and the important job it does.

https://theconversation.com/what-is-mrna-the-messenger-molecule-thats-been-in-every-living-cell-for-billions-of-years-is-the-key-ingredient-in-some-covid-19-vaccines-158511

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yes, of course i should have written ( and i think others understand)   ;  an mRNA  vaccine .  definition: Messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine. This type of vaccine uses genetically engineered mRNA to give your cells instructions for how to make the S protein

you are very welcome to let someone inject that into YOUR body.   just as millions.. or billions... put "food' into their mouths that I would never eat.   there is a reason its called junk food .   hey , their choice, and the governments seem fine just letting the big coorporations pump it out .   Just like the 'vaccineS"  that we are told are good for us.     

No thanks

https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/basketball-friends-relaxing-picture-id1058535792?k=20&m=1058535792&s=612x612&w=0&h=qGyaJ9YzpUy-CaXrbHY7zaRG0ddyXfax9GxKHA9fDbA=

Edited November 22, 2021 by ninja

[ninja]

  On 11/22/2021 at 5:48 AM, PBS said:

False assumption by you. However, currently vast majority of deaths from Covid 19 in Western countries e.g. USA, are the non vaccinated. In addition to prolonging the disruption to society  people are dying unnecessarily from Covid 19 by refusing to vaccinate, their choice, but personally I view it as utter stupidity to do so.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely

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i think it is utter stupidity to believe paid for messages put out by the people that want you to accept their truth.     utterly stupid,  to anyone with critical thinking who sees all  the lies put out

[Shark]

  On 11/22/2021 at 10:34 AM, ninja said:

i think it is utter stupidity to believe paid for messages put out by the people that want you to accept their truth.     utterly stupid,  to anyone with critical thinking who sees all  the lies put out

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PBS has a valid point, that you dislike it might be so, but not vaccinating is a choice, the consequences of this choice should be with the person bearing this choice.

[Rookiescot]

  On 11/22/2021 at 10:34 AM, ninja said:

i think it is utter stupidity to believe paid for messages put out by the people that want you to accept their truth.     utterly stupid,  to anyone with critical thinking who sees all  the lies put out

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The VAST majority of people being hospitalised or dying from covid are now unvaccinated people.

If that simple fact does not wake you up to the folly of your decision then nothing will and its a waste of time debating anything regarding covid with you.

Do me a favor though. Make sure you are taking vitamin D supplements. Its the best thing for your immune system and that is what you are going to be relying on if you catch covid.

[Artemis080]

  On 11/22/2021 at 2:25 AM, PBS said:

Though I disagree with your position, I''l ask a question. Should law be updated  to enable criminal charges against those who decide not to vaccinate and then infect someone with Covid who subsequently dies or becomes seriously ill? In much the same way those with HIV who infect another can be prosecuted?

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No.

[ninja]

  On 11/22/2021 at 10:49 AM, Shark said:

PBS has a valid point, that you dislike it might be so, but not vaccinating is a choice, the consequences of this choice should be with the person bearing this choice.

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i and many others IN THE WORLD,  do not think it is valid.    We do not however make nasty remarks as almost every poster here seems to feel the need to,  about those who follow their different beliefs.

we shall see who faces the worst consequences .   already apparent that the little lie about "breakthrough cases"  is really a big lie.   The "vaccinated"  are getting COVID  in extremely high numbers 

really no need to answer shark.    you don't believe the many posts on ccc from well renowned brave people (as they are then attacked in a smear campaign) .     Lets just agree that you make your choice , and we'll talk again after your tenth booster.

[Shark]

  On 11/22/2021 at 11:36 AM, ninja said:

really no need to answer shark.   

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I'm pro choice, but not pro vax. But reap what you sow - Choice has consequences. Not vaccinating has a consequence. I'm promoting stricter rules for those whom are not vaccinated, not because I'm scared because I find it that you reward those whom put in an effort not those fighting any efforts.

How many flu shots do most elderly get already 50 let's say you get it to make 100, 50 years of boosters... who cares. you get to make 100.

[ninja]

  On 11/22/2021 at 11:05 AM, Rookiescot said:

The VAST majority of people being hospitalised or dying from covid are now unvaccinated people.

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we have our sources that say that is a big lie.        you have been fed many lies,  if you read the other thread you will see many posts highlighting that.      you choose to believe your "facts"

nuff said.     no changing your mind

[Rookiescot]

  On 11/22/2021 at 11:42 AM, ninja said:

we have our sources that say that is a big lie.        you have been fed many lies,  if you read the other thread you will see many posts highlighting that.      you choose to believe your "facts"

nuff said.     no changing your mind

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No you have disreputable sources which pander to your conspiracy theories. I have relied upon the word of my own sister who works in a senior position within the NHS. She knows whats going on.

Unless of course my sister is also part of the great conspiracy.

[Shark]

  On 11/22/2021 at 11:47 AM, Rookiescot said:

No you have disreputable sources which pander to your conspiracy theories. I have relied upon the word of my own sister who works in a senior position within the NHS. She knows whats going on.

Unless of course my sister is also part of the great conspiracy.

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Thanks for this one. I know some people whom do have a background in MRNA/DNA etc and those even said that in this country the available Sinovac isn't the worst choice of the world.

Stating I'm pro vax is shit too. I'm a person whom is fully for more restrictions for those not vaccinated. It's a choice and really reap what you sow. If you don't want a vaccine and now need to-do PCR test to-do anything social is actually a good compromise this should however not be based on a sponsored price and thus pricing should be more European.

[PBS]

  On 11/22/2021 at 11:42 AM, ninja said:

we have our sources that say that is a big lie.        you have been fed many lies,  if you read the other thread you will see many posts highlighting that.      you choose to believe your "facts"

nuff said.     no changing your mind

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Classic stuff you post - completely unaware that it is you and your ilk who have absorbed the 'big lie'.  I assume you're unaware of the origin of 'big lie' propaganda methodology which was so successful; a methodology which sadly has blinded the mindset of millions in today's world, unless you're actually a troll, includes you.

Edited November 22, 2021 by PBS

[JohninDublin]

  On 11/22/2021 at 11:47 AM, Rookiescot said:

No you have disreputable sources which pander to your conspiracy theories. I have relied upon the word of my own sister who works in a senior position within the NHS. She knows whats going on.

Unless of course my sister is also part of the great conspiracy.

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The problem I have with "sources", is the willingness of others to attack the source, no matter how reputable. I once cited a study in Nature Magazine, a highly respected publication, only to be told that it was funded by the CCP.

Was this a deliberate lie? Or maybe it was stupidity on the part of the poster who heard it from his friend down the pub and was privy to such info because he regularly bought a takeaway from the local Chinese resto after a his visit to the pub? 

So are we all victims of a global conspiracy? Or do we need to do something about our critical thinking skills? 

[Rookiescot]

  On 11/22/2021 at 12:17 PM, JohninDubin said:

The problem I have with "sources", is the willingness of others to attack the source, no matter how reputable. I once cited a study in Nature Magazine, a highly respected publication, only to be told that it was funded by the CCP.

Was this a deliberate lie? Or maybe it was stupidity on the part of the poster who heard it from his friend down the pub and was privy to such info because he regularly bought a takeaway from the local Chinese resto after a his visit to the pub? 

So are we all victims of a global conspiracy? Or do we need to do something about our critical thinking skills? 

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Yes a global conspiracy which sees every government around the world all agreeing on the same course of action. Lets get the population vaccinated.

These are of course the same governments from around the world who will argue about which day of the week it is at the UN.

Left wing media, right wing media, they are all saying get vaccinated. Those same media outlets which will argue about two raindrops running down a window.

But hey! I found something on the internet from some guy I dont know and had never heard of prior to covid telling me its all some huge conspiracy brought about by big pharma and Bill Gates and pod people from the planet Zephron 4. 

So there you have it. Only us small band of truthers know whats really going on and all the rest are simply sheep who dont think and know any better.

As soon as "they" send out the xenon waves from the 5G transmitters the entire population will turn into zombies.

But I demand that society does not impose sanctions on me because I dont want them (even though I am happy to see other minority groups sanctioned) because I have rights. I will ignore the fact that the vast majority of covid cases taking up hospital beds and indeed dying from the virus are unvaccinated people. Placing enormous strain on already stretched health systems causing others to have treatment cancelled or postponed. 

I shall not do the patriotic thing in helping others in society because I have seen the truth. Even after billions of people have been vaccinated I will still claim its an untested vaccine. I will point at examples of people falling down the stairs or being killed while putting on their own trousers as evidence that the vaccine killed them. 

[dj230]

  On 11/20/2021 at 1:52 PM, Mudshark said:

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/11/09/1053889069/singapore-medical-bills-covid-19-patients-unvaccinated-by-choice

Singapore draws a line.
"Those who are "unvaccinated by choice" will have to start paying for their own COVID-19 treatment starting Dec. 8, the Ministry of Health announced on Monday, citing the strain they are putting on the nation's health care system. "Currently, unvaccinated persons make up a sizeable majority of those who require intensive inpatient care, and disproportionately contribute to the strain on our healthcare resources," it said in a statement. Singapore's government has been covering the medical bills of COVID-19 patients throughout the pandemic. But it says unvaccinated people will soon be on their own"

Austria has reportedly been also eyeing similar legislation as Singapore is enacting. With hospital costs massive & wuhan surging, why should society pay the costs of the willfully unvaccinated? The unvaccinated which are driving this latest surge.

Like Singapore the US is paying astronomical medical costs for Wuhan flu. Yet the non vaccinated make up 80 per cent or more of the hospitalized in the last half year. This socialist safety net cannot continue, sorry Joe. The willful unvaccinated need to shoulder their own medical costs and not depend on a socialist nanny state for a free ride. Sometimes tough love is the only real love.

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This seems like the better way to go about it in my opinion, giving the option to not get vaccinated but should their choice negatively impact the healthcare system, or cause an outbreak, a fine or having to pay for their medical costs seems fair. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by dj230