News Forum - Thitisan Jo Ferrari and his officers now facing death penalty

[Thaiger]

The 7 police officers including Pol Col Thitisan “Jo Ferrari” Utthanaphon who were arrested after a video leaked of them suffocating a suspect to death during interrogation will now face full charges as the Attorney-General has given the go-ahead to begin prosecution. The 7 will be tried for multiple charges including premeditated murder by means of torture, coercion, illegal detention, and malfeasance in office under stricter sections of the Penal Code that call for the death penalty. The case will be officially submitted to the Central Criminal Court for Corruption and Misconduct Cases by the Attorney-General next week. Of note, […]

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[gummy]

I wonder if Joe Ferrari will accidently topple over a balcony. Accused senior officers have been known to become unsteady on their feet in the past.

[Shade_Wilder]

"The new plan to prosecute under Section 289 instead eliminates any prison sentence option, meaning if any or all of the accused police officers are convicted by the court of the premeditated murder charge, they will receive the death penalty."

Interesting.

This is certainly going to be a test case for Thailand, and it seems like the Prosecutors Office realizes that with the charges as laid out; it'll be all or nothing.

We have all seen the video, so I doubt that anyone in-country actually thinks that they are innocent.

Given the above, the underlying issue at the trial will be whether or not police officers can actually be held to account for their actions. As a long-term visitor/resident here, I have my doubts on accountability, but on the other hand, it is pretty difficult to have a more clear-cut case than this; its all on video.

Its turning point time, Thailand.

Are you going to join civilized nations who hold their police accountable or are you going to continue to allow government officials to flaunt the law at whim?

There are going to be repercussions galore from this; will they be good or bad?

Hmm...

PS does anyone remember that Prayut promised to reform the Police at the time of the Coup? Does anyone think this case will be an election issue in the coming contest?

Double Hmm...

[Marble-eye]

Hopefully it will be "squeaky bum time time" for jalopy Joe.

[Bluesofa]

7 minutes ago, Shade_Wilder said:

PS does anyone remember that Prayut promised to reform the Police at the time of the Coup? Does anyone think this case will be an election issue in the coming contest?

Double Hmm...

I do, I do.
Then he ran away from it. Did someone threaten him, or was it the usual frog-kissing bullsh!t we've come to expect?

When nature reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his head and fled, brave, brave, brave Prayut.
(With apologies to Monty Python's The Holy Grail)

[palooka]

7 minutes ago, Shade_Wilder said:

PS does anyone remember that Prayut promised to reform the Police at the time of the Coup? Does anyone think this case will be an election issue in the coming contest?

Think you are right, elections -so throw them under the bus.

This mess has also been a massive loss of face for RTP and Thailand -- they got caught out badly.

Bet Joe wishes he had skipped the country when he had the chance.

[Shade_Wilder]

1 minute ago, Bluesofa said:

I do, I do.
Then he ran away from it. Did someone threaten him, or was it the usual frog-kissing bullsh!t we've come to expect?

When nature reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his head and fled, brave, brave, brave Prayut.
(With apologies to Monty Python's The Holy Grail)

I can't argue with your post, and I LOVE that Brave Sir Robin tune, but I am not so sure of the outcome, even though it seems to have clearer than the clearest proof.

The Thai police have been called the largest organized gang in Asia and a political party will have to think carefully about going after them in an election. The PPRP is going to be facing some serious headwinds come the next election (late next year; you heard it here first) and having an ally that can screw with your opponents campaign is a powerful tool. Move Forward getting popular? Bust one of their leaders for Yaba. Pheu Thai surging? Deny a permit for a rally and claim a bribery attempt. The BJP not supporting you enough? In the most ironic fashion, bust a few supporters for weed. The Dems attracting support in their southern base? Investigate their leader for land encroachment.

There is an old saying "Don't fight with people who buy ink by the barrel" i.e. newspapers. There should be an equivalent saying of "Don't fight with people who have the power to arrest you and your supporters".

But yes, he is a 'Frog-Kissing Fabricator".

[Rookiescot]

C'mon guys. Just a big misunderstanding. 

500 baht and a Wai. 

[Nobodysfriend]

The one who originally ' leaked ' the video to the lawyer who presented it to the public , needs to be scared for his life now ...

But , still , it was a good thing to be done .

[gummy]

15 minutes ago, Nobodysfriend said:

The one who originally ' leaked ' the video to the lawyer who presented it to the public , needs to be scared for his life now ...

If he is still alive. The senior members of the RTP and those who sponsor them in the government won't like this sort of exposure to their operational methods.

[thaicm]

Gee, I wonder if they've decided yet whether or not to fire him.

[Bluesofa]

2 minutes ago, thaicm said:

Gee, I wonder if they've decided yet whether or not to fire him.

Hopefully out of a cannon without a safety net.

[mickkotlarski]

5 minutes ago, thaicm said:

Gee, I wonder if they've decided yet whether or not to fire him.

I believe that is already done and he can now be put on trial as a civilian. I hope they throw the book at him.

[palooka]

7 hours ago, mickkotlarski said:

I believe that is already done and he can now be put on trial as a civilian. I hope they throw the book at him.

Agree.

Should have been a public (tv) official stripping of rank and insignia, officially making him a nobody, and "he who is not to be named" should have done it, this would send a big message to others.

Civilian,  cop, does it matter after you kill someone, the person is still dead either way.

[Soidog]

8 hours ago, thaicm said:

Gee, I wonder if they've decided yet whether or not to fire him.

Verbal warning even? 
 

It’s probably how they will get this guy off. They will say that as he hasn’t had two verbal warnings and a written warning previously, any other charges of malpractice simply can’t be applied. Moved to an “inactive post” for a month and then allowed to get on with his life. 

[mickkotlarski]

4 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Verbal warning even? 
 

It’s probably how they will get this guy off. They will say that as he hasn’t had two verbal warnings and a written warning previously, any other charges of malpractice simply can’t be applied. Moved to an “inactive post” for a month and then allowed to get on with his life. 

Last I heard is the cops keep discipline in house which is why they often get away with a slap and simply move to another police station. Unlike military court guilty often get off lightly.

But Joe Ferrari being high profile is now dishonorably discharged to face charges of murder and extortion as a civilian.

Authorities claim that the trial will not drag on and optimism/hope kick in and I'm hoping this is truly the case. But the authorities also said they'll make a full investigation into all his links so some will go low profile others will get thrown under the bus. This part of the case will take time.

If they try him for murder jail the savage and then prosecute him for extortion, this would be ideal but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Sparks]

From a legal perspective, the new charge seems to open the door for acquittal on the most serious charge as it is hard to prove pre-meditation. If the intent was to get him to pay up...you don't want the person to die. As the video shows, he was clearly tortured and murdered, but can you determine it was premeditated? Maybe pre-meditation is defined differently here.

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Sparks said:

From a legal perspective, the new charge seems to open the door for acquittal on the most serious charge as it is hard to prove pre-meditation. If the intent was to get him to pay up...you don't want the person to die. As the video shows, he was clearly tortured and murdered, but can you determine it was premeditated? Maybe pre-meditation is defined differently here.

As I explained in the parallel thread here, pre-meditation / intent isn't a requirement for a murder charge under Section 289(5), which is what he's charged under.

 

[mickkotlarski]

7 minutes ago, Stonker said:

As I explained in the parallel thread here, pre-meditation / intent isn't a requirement for a murder charge under Section 289(5), which is what he's charged under.

Surprising that motive is still non pertinent as the murder was committed on a suspect with clear evidence showing no obvious aggression by the subject during interrogation.  But then in your parallel post outlining Section289(5) torture is punishable by death. ,,, If caught with water tight supporting evidence such as in this case. I'm sure many people are patiently awaiting for the outcome of this case.

But what is also of major interest is how he obtained all his assets as the prosecutors and investigators have made it public that "all avenues" of the investigation will be looked into. This is actually even more interesting than the murder charge. Some may even see a quickly administered death penalty as convenient. 

[Stonker]

7 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Some may even see a quickly administered death penalty as convenient. 

Even if found guilty very quickly, any death penalty here is very unlikely to be "quickly administered".

All sentenced to death here have the right to not only appeal through the courts but to ask the King for clemency, to have their death sentence commuted to life imprisonment.

Apparently neither the present nor the previous King have replied to such requests one way or the other, so nobody who asked for royal clemency has been executed pending any reply.

[mickkotlarski]

15 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Even if found guilty very quickly, any death penalty here is very unlikely to be "quickly administered".

All sentenced to death here have the right to not only appeal through the courts but to ask the King for clemency, to have their death sentence commuted to life imprisonment.

Apparently neither the present nor the previous King have replied to such requests one way or the other, so nobody who asked for royal clemency has been executed pending any reply.

Hence even more interest here Stonker as I know of only of one execution in 2018. Both the appeals court and even the King would have many eyes watching and waiting. But with a move away from capital punishment and so many other related charges I also doubt that a speedily administered execution would happen.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, mickkotlarski said:

Hence even more interest here Stonker as I know of only of one execution in 2018. Both the appeals court and even the King would have many eyes watching and waiting. But with a move away from capital punishment and so many other related charges I also doubt that a speedily administered execution would happen.

That was the first for nine years.

I know there are other appeals for clemency 'pending', but as far as I know the only appeal formally granted recently was for the two Burmese men convicted in the controversial Koh Tao case.

[Paulw]

I smell a rat, so if they are not found guilty under sec 289 they get to walk!!! WTF

[Paulw]

15 hours ago, mickkotlarski said:

Surprising that motive is still non pertinent as the murder was committed on a suspect with clear evidence showing no obvious aggression by the subject during interrogation.  But then in your parallel post outlining Section289(5) torture is punishable by death. ,,, If caught with water tight supporting evidence such as in this case. I'm sure many people are patiently awaiting for the outcome of this case.

But what is also of major interest is how he obtained all his assets as the prosecutors and investigators have made it public that "all avenues" of the investigation will be looked into. This is actually even more interesting than the murder charge. Some may even see a quickly administered death penalty as convenient. 

Yes I am sure he has accomplices in high places that wouldn't like to see the truth come out so maybe the death penalty will make a few sleep easier and maybe a greater share of their ill gotten gains!

[gummy]

16 minutes ago, Paulw said:

Yes I am sure he has accomplices in high places that wouldn't like to see the truth come out so maybe the death penalty will make a few sleep easier and maybe a greater share of their ill gotten gains!

Unless it has already been agreed and the right people paid off, I doubt if he will be alive by the time the trial starts.