News Forum - Singapore delays intellectually disabled drug trafficker’s execution due to Covid infection

[Thaiger]

A highly-controversial case involving an intellectually disabled, Malaysian drug trafficker has captivated Singapore and the world, as the court has delayed carrying out the death penalty due to Covid-19. Singapore has normally been a society that doesn’t protest the use of the death penalty, but since the drug trafficker, Nagaenthran K. Dharmalingam, has an IQ of just 69, the case has gained widespread attention. The execution was due to be carried out today, but a last minute appeal has suspended the proceedings based on compassion as the man tested positive for the Covid virus. Activists have been up in arms […]

The story Singapore delays intellectually disabled drug trafficker’s execution due to Covid infection as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Malc-Thai]

Ahh at least they're going to let him recover from covid before they execute him!

Edited November 10, 2021 by Malc-Thai

[Shade_Wilder]

18 minutes ago, Thaiger said:

A highly-controversial case involving an intellectually disabled, Malaysian drug trafficker has captivated Singapore and the world, as the court has delayed carrying out the death penalty due to Covid-19.

Hmm... exactly what are they worried about here? Are they afraid of potentially having him die of Covid rather than killing him themselves? Would he somehow be 'cheating' if he managed to die on his own terms? If he doesn't have the mental capacity to understand the consequences of his crime, can he be held responsible? Will Singapore forcefully treat and vaccinate him before killing him? If one feels the Death Penalty is justified, why not just leave his Covid untreated and hope for the best (worst)?

It is all a bit confusing and soul-sucking.

The Death Penalty is one of those issues where good people can honestly disagree. Personally, I am not in favour, but it is one of those 51% / 49% issues. On one side are Harold Shipman (UK), Ted Bundy (USA), Clifford Olsen (Canada), etc. etc. etc. On the other hand, is there anyone out there who can state unequivocally that no innocent person has ever been executed by the State (hint: No)?

On balance, life imprisonment is better because if there was a mistake, then it is possible to fix. If there wasn't a mistake, then a lifetime of incarceration is punishment enough.

[AlexPTY]

40 minutes ago, Thaiger said:

an intellectually disabled

is this new "politically correct" definition?

[gummy]

Just now, AlexPTY said:

is this new "politically correct" definition?

No it's just a coded message  to mean he will soon be given Thai nationality and deported so that he can be nominated for a ministerial position here 

[AussieBob]

7 minutes ago, Shade_Wilder said:

Hmm... exactly what are they worried about here? Are they afraid of potentially having him die of Covid rather than killing him themselves? Would he somehow be 'cheating' if he managed to die on his own terms? If he doesn't have the mental capacity to understand the consequences of his crime, can he be held responsible? Will Singapore forcefully treat and vaccinate him before killing him? If one feels the Death Penalty is justified, why not just leave his Covid untreated and hope for the best (worst)?

It is all a bit confusing and soul-sucking.

The Death Penalty is one of those issues where good people can honestly disagree. Personally, I am not in favour, but it is one of those 51% / 49% issues. On one side are Harold Shipman (UK), Ted Bundy (USA), Clifford Olsen (Canada), etc. etc. etc. On the other hand, is there anyone out there who can state unequivocally that no innocent person has ever been executed by the State (hint: No)?

On balance, life imprisonment is better because if there was a mistake, then it is possible to fix. If there wasn't a mistake, then a lifetime of incarceration is punishment enough.

Mate - you are 100% correct - there is no valid counter argument. The only thing anyone has is time and that ceases when you die - there are no makeovers or mulligans when a person is executed by mistake - and humans are not perfect and court mistakes are a proven fact.  What I believe is OK is that if a person is found guilty and sentenced to death, that they have the right to accept that, or to commute that to life (real life) inside prison, with the hope that one day they are found to be innocent. Hope is enough when you are innocent - the alternative is permanent.

 

[AussieBob]

6 minutes ago, AlexPTY said:

is this new "politically correct" definition?

It is actually maybe a big problem one day.  If anyone is found 'not guilty' because they are 'intellectually disabled' - then the criminals will use intellectually disabled people to commit crimes (like smuggling drugs). Ignorance of the Law is not an excuse, so is intellectual capacity IMO. 

[AlexPTY]

5 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

It is actually maybe a big problem one day.  If anyone is found 'not guilty' because they are 'intellectually disabled' - then the criminals will use intellectually disabled people to commit crimes (like smuggling drugs). Ignorance of the Law is not an excuse, so is intellectual capacity IMO. 

there are few ways to defend people like this: mentally incompetent to stand trial and insanity. i assume this is an attempt make first to sound less offensive

[Pinetree]

1 hour ago, Thaiger said:

has an IQ of just 69

As do most, if not all criminals.  Think about all the people whos lives are destroyed by this man and his kind.

[Pinetree]

1 hour ago, AlexPTY said:

there are few ways to defend people like this: mentally incompetent to stand trial and insanity. i assume this is an attempt make first to sound less offensive

Criminality is a form of mental instability, assessing its severity in criminals is almost impossible.  

[Jason]

I can never agree with the death penalty. It is not retributive. A "never to be released" sentence has some chance of being retributive.

[Jason]

Singapore still canes offenders. These are punishments that began with the PrimeMinistership of Lee Kuan Yew. 

[Donald]

If they execute him within 4 weeks after he tested positive he can be added to the Covid 19 fatalities if the official counting method is applied. No pun intended. And I  certainly don't condone the death penalty in this case. Check Robert Hart in New Zealand who was killed by gunshots on Novemder the 5th and was recorded as a Covid 19 death.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Donald
Adding extra information

[JohninDublin]

On 11/10/2021 at 3:24 AM, AlexPTY said:

is this new "politically correct" definition?

It is used to refer to persons with a sub-70 point IQ. Not so long ago they were labelled as "educationally sub-normal" (ESN)

[JohninDublin]

On 11/10/2021 at 3:32 AM, AussieBob said:

It is actually maybe a big problem one day.  If anyone is found 'not guilty' because they are 'intellectually disabled' - then the criminals will use intellectually disabled people to commit crimes (like smuggling drugs). Ignorance of the Law is not an excuse, so is intellectual capacity IMO. 

Intellectual disability is not a plea that is recognised as to guilt or innocence. It is used in mitigation. It is well accepted that those with an IQ in the 50-70 usually know the difference between right and wrong, but are less likely to recognise the consequences of their actions, thus they are generally given more lenient sentences. 

But I too would have concerns about them being used by traffickers. It is not uncommon for them to use kids now who are deemed as being below the age of criminal responsibility, and therefore cannot be prosecuted, so why not the intellectually challenged.

[JohninDublin]

On 11/10/2021 at 3:40 AM, AlexPTY said:

there are few ways to defend people like this: mentally incompetent to stand trial and insanity. i assume this is an attempt make first to sound less offensive

No. It's simply a reference to someone with an IQ of below 70. In this case, he scores 69.

A thought has just occurred to me. Supposing that had adopted the convention of not using the DP on the intellectually disabled, and he had an accomplice whose IQ was 70 also found guilty? 

It is often said of the DP, that it is arbitrary and capricious.

[poohy]

On 11/10/2021 at 10:26 AM, gummy said:

No it's just a coded message  to mean he will soon be given Thai nationality and deported so that he can be nominated for a ministerial position here 

He would qualify on 2 accounts

Thick (er) than 2 short planks

And previous experience of drug smuggling

Hes made for the job

[HiuMak]

On 11/10/2021 at 11:17 AM, Shade_Wilder said:

Will Singapore forcefully treat and vaccinate him before killing him? If one feels the Death Penalty is justified, why not just leave his Covid untreated and hope for the best (worst)?

Why would Singapore add this to its Covid death numbers by leaving him untreated? Treating and if possible vaccinate him before his execution is just humane.

[HiuMak]

On 11/10/2021 at 4:21 PM, Jason said:

Singapore still canes offenders. These are punishments that began with the PrimeMinistership of Lee Kuan Yew. 

Look at Michael Fay. Teaches him something he will remember for life.

Edited November 14, 2021 by HiuMak

[Pinetree]

On 11/12/2021 at 11:50 PM, JohninDubin said:

It is used to refer to persons with a sub-70 point IQ. Not so long ago they were labelled as "educationally sub-normal" (ESN)

or politicians 

[JohninDublin]

5 hours ago, Pinetree said:

or politicians 

No. You've got that wrong, The condition that afflicts politicians id "IDD". Intention Deficit Disorder.