Dont travel to Thailand Now

[AussieBob]

This thread has been going since early November -  but only now a 30 year local Expat 'expert' finds out about it all.   

 

One of my sources is Richard Barrow, and the Thai channels and outlets, and many other Expats on social media such as Peter.  As Richard says - " I have no paid affiliation or personal agenda. I don’t gain anything if tourists come back to Thailand or not. I am not always correct, but I always try to do my best to help people to the extent of my ability."  https://www.getrevue.co/profile/richardbarrow/issues/updates-about-test-go-and-covid-extension-1010000

When you see anything stated about Thailand always ask yourself - is there anything in it for them to say that?  Those with affiliated businesses or friends dependent on tourism tend to be over positive about test & go and down play or ignore the negatives.   

IMO right now is not the time to have a short holiday to Thailand  - wait until they drop all the tests and quarantine on arrival. I am pleased that many tourists are not coming to Thailand since they learned about the original 'marketing embellishments' about Thailand being 'quarantine free'. The big increase in Nov/Dec is not being repeated now because tourists are better informed.  It is only because of those low numbers, that the Sino-Thai Junta Govt is considering dropping the tests for vaccinated and insured arrivals - and because it is too early for their mates in China to release their hordes.  

[AussieBob]

Quote:  "Being locked in an air-conditioned hotel room without even being able to window or go out for 5 minutes is very painful, not to mention the possible financial consequences. If I had to do it again I would cancel my trip to Thailand, and that's what I advise other people to do, as long as this system remains in place."  This is from France - https://www.thailande-fr.com/tourisme/117753-covid-positif-en-thailande-le-temoignage-troublant-dun-francais

More and more people are learning why not to travel to Thailand now for a short holiday, and more and more media coverage is being given to the problems tourists are having.  About 1800 travellers tested positive in February - out of only 55000 visitors. Dont come to Thailand now - wait.

The Sino-Thai Junta Government has completely stuffed up the whole management of tourism. Their constant changes and china-like impositions (facemasks while riding bikes ??) , and their total arrogance in thinking Thailand is the only country in SEAsia for tourists has done immeasurable damage. The media coverage of the Junta in Thailand and its treatment of foreigners was negative for a long time before Covid arrived - the only places increasing their arrivals since 2015 were Chinese, Russian and Indian - it was dropping elsewhere.  Since the pandemic started easing and people started looking again, the media coverage has  shown Thailand to be nothing short of farcical (as above).  And on top of that there has been constant bad media coverage of Thailand - foreigners referred to as 'dirty farangs' by Junta Minister, how tourists are continually subjected to scams, and of the many dangers to the lives of tourists (roads, crimes, accidents, etc.). Tourists are looking elsewhere and the Junta must stop all the testing and associated scams for tourists who are fully vaccinated, insured and tested negative in their home country, or the damage that has already been done will be irrecoverable.

What the Junta Govt does not understand is that Thailand can just as quickly crash, as it grew.  Back in 2000 these were the top 15 countries for tourists (in order) : France, Spain, USA, Italy, China/HK, UK,  Canada, Mexico, Russia, Poland, Austria, Germany, Czech, Hungary, Greece. The demographics have changed since back then, but Thailand was not even on the list.

Now go to 2018, and the numbers in order are : France, Spain, USA, China/HK, Italy, Turkey, Mexico, Germany, Thailand, UK.   Thailand could just as quickly drop back down that list - and I doubt it will get back up to the 40 million of 2019 for a long long time - what the Junta Govt has done will make many tourists think again about Thailand for many years to come. 

[Thommo]

On 2/8/2022 at 11:01 AM, Ben_Tallchief said:

Yes I believe you are correct. There is too much risk of blowing hard earned cash on hotel quarantines etc. at the moment. Not worth it. Maybe a couple of months down the track. Also these PPS tests are $90 (AUD) each, what a rip. And Thailand pass, too difficult.

PCR test in thailand for the phuket sandbox 4500 baht for the 2  thats about $80 aud each  my pre flight pcr test in oz was 150 aud   i guess i was ripped off more back home  As for th TP being too difficult nah   frustrating  yes

[HiuMak]

On 2/13/2022 at 8:48 AM, Thommo said:

PCR test in thailand for the phuket sandbox 4500 baht for the 2  thats about $80 aud each  my pre flight pcr test in oz was 150 aud   i guess i was ripped off more back home  As for th TP being too difficult nah   frustrating  yes

same paid A$150 for a PCR in Aus. A$300 if I want a same day result....madness

[AussieBob]

Just saw the latest CCSA update today (21st) - no information provided on number of arrivals testing positive.  I guess that is one way to solve the 'problem' - dont tell people the number.  But I just watched Jett's news report and he stated that the Phuket administration has advised that about 3% of arrivals are testing positive on day 1, and about 4% are positive in day 5 tests.  I wonder if that means over 6% are testing positive - 3/100 on day 1, plus 3.8 (4% of 97) on day 5 equals 6.8% . Or are they also re-testing those positive on Day 1 again on Day 5 (why?) and the total is about 4%. Hard to tell if they dont publish the numbers anymore . 

Either way - until they stop testing international tourists after arrival who are fully vaccinated and insured and test negative before getting on a plane, and locking up those testing positive (when they dont test domestic Thai tourists), the numbers of international tourists will not increase much - even if they call it an endemic virus (or a unicorn).  Mmmm - is that an appropriate name for the next covid mutation?? 

[LoongFred]

On 2/21/2022 at 8:13 PM, AussieBob said:

Just saw the latest CCSA update today (21st) - no information provided on number of arrivals testing positive.  I guess that is one way to solve the 'problem' - dont tell people the number.  But I just watched Jett's news report and he stated that the Phuket administration has advised that about 3% of arrivals are testing positive on day 1, and about 4% are positive in day 5 tests.  I wonder if that means over 6% are testing positive - 3/100 on day 1, plus 3.8 (4% of 97) on day 5 equals 6.8% . Or are they also re-testing those positive on Day 1 again on Day 5 (why?) and the total is about 4%. Hard to tell if they dont publish the numbers anymore . 

Either way - until they stop testing international tourists after arrival who are fully vaccinated and insured and test negative before getting on a plane, and locking up those testing positive (when they dont test domestic Thai tourists), the numbers of international tourists will not increase much - even if they call it an endemic virus (or a unicorn).  Mmmm - is that an appropriate name for the next covid mutation?? 

It points to inadequate testing at the departure airport IMO. 

[AussieBob]

34 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

It points to inadequate testing at the departure airport IMO. 

The testing is done a day or two before departure Fred - not at the airport. And clearly the testing is some places (Russia?) leaves a lot to be desired.  But even if the pre-flight test is suspect, the fact is that more people test positive on day 5 than on day 1 - which means they caught it in Thailand. Which means to me that a lot of the positive tests on day 1 are from people travelling to Thailand - home to airport, at airport/s, on planes/s, in transit lounge/s, at swampy/Phuket, on way to the hotel and test location (hotel or hospital).

 

[LoongFred]

44 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

The testing is done a day or two before departure Fred - not at the airport. And clearly the testing is some places (Russia?) leaves a lot to be desired.  But even if the pre-flight test is suspect, the fact is that more people test positive on day 5 than on day 1 - which means they caught it in Thailand. Which means to me that a lot of the positive tests on day 1 are from people travelling to Thailand - home to airport, at airport/s, on planes/s, in transit lounge/s, at swampy/Phuket, on way to the hotel and test location (hotel or hospital).

I'm not so sure if day 5 rates show that they caught it in Thailand but surely they should not be out in the general population.  Could be that they are exposed to others on the aircraft, though. 

[LoongFred]

19 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

I'm not so sure if day 5 rates show that they caught it in Thailand but surely they should not be out in the general population.  Could be that they are exposed to others on the aircraft, though. 

Sitting in a airplane for hours is a high risk of transmission. Waiting in line at boarding or immigration are also of concern.  Where  people go between day one and five might give an answer if they were places that were high risk.

[AussieBob]

4 hours ago, LoongFred said:

Sitting in a airplane for hours is a high risk of transmission. Waiting in line at boarding or immigration are also of concern.  Where  people go between day one and five might give an answer if they were places that were high risk.

I agree with both of your last comments Fred - I reckon that most positive tests are from airports and planes, by being near people who have caught it but dont know.   Either way to risk is too high IMO.

They have dropped the day 5 tests from March, but the risk is still too high IMO.  When they drop all testing after arriving, then we will return for a holiday visit.  But with daily ase numbers now hitting 20K again, they will inevitably be reluctant to do that for a while longer of course. 

The only solution IMO is as I and others have said for a while - wait it out - things will change, they always do.  

[ace035]

On 2/12/2022 at 3:52 PM, AussieBob said:

Quote:  "Being locked in an air-conditioned hotel room without even being able to window or go out for 5 minutes is very painful, not to mention the possible financial consequences. If I had to do it again I would cancel my trip to Thailand, and that's what I advise other people to do, as long as this system remains in place."  This is from France - https://www.thailande-fr.com/tourisme/117753-covid-positif-en-thailande-le-temoignage-troublant-dun-francais

More and more people are learning why not to travel to Thailand now for a short holiday, and more and more media coverage is being given to the problems tourists are having.  About 1800 travellers tested positive in February - out of only 55000 visitors. Dont come to Thailand now - wait.

The Sino-Thai Junta Government has completely stuffed up the whole management of tourism. Their constant changes and china-like impositions (facemasks while riding bikes ??) , and their total arrogance in thinking Thailand is the only country in SEAsia for tourists has done immeasurable damage. The media coverage of the Junta in Thailand and its treatment of foreigners was negative for a long time before Covid arrived - the only places increasing their arrivals since 2015 were Chinese, Russian and Indian - it was dropping elsewhere.  Since the pandemic started easing and people started looking again, the media coverage has  shown Thailand to be nothing short of farcical (as above).  And on top of that there has been constant bad media coverage of Thailand - foreigners referred to as 'dirty farangs' by Junta Minister, how tourists are continually subjected to scams, and of the many dangers to the lives of tourists (roads, crimes, accidents, etc.). Tourists are looking elsewhere and the Junta must stop all the testing and associated scams for tourists who are fully vaccinated, insured and tested negative in their home country, or the damage that has already been done will be irrecoverable.

What the Junta Govt does not understand is that Thailand can just as quickly crash, as it grew.  Back in 2000 these were the top 15 countries for tourists (in order) : France, Spain, USA, Italy, China/HK, UK,  Canada, Mexico, Russia, Poland, Austria, Germany, Czech, Hungary, Greece. The demographics have changed since back then, but Thailand was not even on the list.

Now go to 2018, and the numbers in order are : France, Spain, USA, China/HK, Italy, Turkey, Mexico, Germany, Thailand, UK.   Thailand could just as quickly drop back down that list - and I doubt it will get back up to the 40 million of 2019 for a long long time - what the Junta Govt has done will make many tourists think again about Thailand for many years to come. 

Maybe , you're the expert on this, do you know anything about the development of hotel isolation for incoming tourists going to Pattaya? I read that if the incoming tourists get positive for COVID but asymptomatic, mild symptoms or not sick at all, they have a choice of staying in an AQ Hotel of 10 days per Pattaya officials instead of sending via in an ambulance all the way to the hospital and getting ripped off. I have 3 sources on this from Thaiger & TPN but as of right now, not confirmed yet and nobody knows.

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/what-to-do-if-you-test-positive-for-covid-19-in-thailand

https://thethaiger.com/news/pattaya/pattaya-discusses-hotel-isolation-for-test-go-sandbox-travellers-with-covid-19

https://thepattayanews.com/2022/01/27/pattaya-tourism-businesses-and-hospitals-preparing-for-sandbox-and-test-developing-plan-for-hotel-isolation-for-mild-covid-positive-patients/?fbclid=IwAR18JLp1vs3UvVyHfAdn-Ok6Nvn_DGAd2ydJTe2m9dpo-92sY3TT5QyIfsQ

[AussieBob]

7 hours ago, ace035 said:

Maybe , you're the expert on this, do you know anything about the development of hotel isolation for incoming tourists going to Pattaya? I read that if the incoming tourists get positive for COVID but asymptomatic, mild symptoms or not sick at all, they have a choice of staying in an AQ Hotel of 10 days per Pattaya officials instead of sending via in an ambulance all the way to the hospital and getting ripped off. I have 3 sources on this from Thaiger & TPN but as of right now, not confirmed yet and nobody knows.

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/what-to-do-if-you-test-positive-for-covid-19-in-thailand

https://thethaiger.com/news/pattaya/pattaya-discusses-hotel-isolation-for-test-go-sandbox-travellers-with-covid-19

https://thepattayanews.com/2022/01/27/pattaya-tourism-businesses-and-hospitals-preparing-for-sandbox-and-test-developing-plan-for-hotel-isolation-for-mild-covid-positive-patients/?fbclid=IwAR18JLp1vs3UvVyHfAdn-Ok6Nvn_DGAd2ydJTe2m9dpo-92sY3TT5QyIfsQ

Not an expert - but I stay across things as much as I can.  The wife and I want to return and visit the family and friends in Thailand. Being locked away for 10-14 days would destroy our plans for seeing everyone in a 3-4 week period - in fact our itinerary usually has us moving on the the next place every 2-3 days (except for the week at the Mother's of course). 

My understanding is that the option of doing that (staying in the ASQ hotel if asymptomatic) is a matter that can be decided between the Hotel and their Hospital (each Hotel has an agreement with one private Hospital).  On top of that, the local Province can direct hotels and hospitals to use that option first  - that was done in Phuket - but I am not aware of it being done elsewhere. 

Having said that, most Thais are very accommodating, and unless someone has been unlucky to be staying at a hotel with a hospital that demands they get all positive testers even if they are healthy and no symptoms, then they will listen to any requests to stay in their hotel room and isolate there.  I have heard that some tourists have refused to leave the hotel room, and the hotel and hospital has backed down after reaching agreement (example - Hospital medical people able to visit and it will be paid for by the tourists, etc.) . I have also heard of some tourists being forced to leave and taken to hospital by 'security' under the threat of being arrested and put in a Thai jail. My only advice would be to not stay at a very cheap ASQ hotel (upmarket ones more likely to agree to stay), and if it happens to try and negotiate to stay in the hotel room very calmly, respectfully and peacefully - no threats or abuse or loud voices. Find out what they need to be able to get a deal done - remembering that most Thais are not going to say 'if you do this, then ..............' -  they are very reluctant to say things that could make the other person 'lose face' - you have to make suggestions for them - and you must do so very politely and calmly.  That is why when travelling in Thailand my wife does all the talking, and once they reach a deal, I am asked by her if that is OK - and I then smile and say thank you (sawadee khrapp) knowing she has got the best deal possible. 

[ace035]

3 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Not an expert - but I stay across things as much as I can.  The wife and I want to return and visit the family and friends in Thailand. Being locked away for 10-14 days would destroy our plans for seeing everyone in a 3-4 week period - in fact our itinerary usually has us moving on the the next place every 2-3 days (except for the week at the Mother's of course). 

My understanding is that the option of doing that (staying in the ASQ hotel if asymptomatic) is a matter that can be decided between the Hotel and their Hospital (each Hotel has an agreement with one private Hospital).  On top of that, the local Province can direct hotels and hospitals to use that option first  - that was done in Phuket - but I am not aware of it being done elsewhere. 

Having said that, most Thais are very accommodating, and unless someone has been unlucky to be staying at a hotel with a hospital that demands they get all positive testers even if they are healthy and no symptoms, then they will listen to any requests to stay in their hotel room and isolate there.  I have heard that some tourists have refused to leave the hotel room, and the hotel and hospital has backed down after reaching agreement (example - Hospital medical people able to visit and it will be paid for by the tourists, etc.) . I have also heard of some tourists being forced to leave and taken to hospital by 'security' under the threat of being arrested and put in a Thai jail. My only advice would be to not stay at a very cheap ASQ hotel (upmarket ones more likely to agree to stay), and if it happens to try and negotiate to stay in the hotel room very calmly, respectfully and peacefully - no threats or abuse or loud voices. Find out what they need to be able to get a deal done - remembering that most Thais are not going to say 'if you do this, then ..............' -  they are very reluctant to say things that could make the other person 'lose face' - you have to make suggestions for them - and you must do so very politely and calmly.  That is why when travelling in Thailand my wife does all the talking, and once they reach a deal, I am asked by her if that is OK - and I then smile and say thank you (sawadee khrapp) knowing she has got the best deal possible. 

So, you're telling me it's up to the hotel and hospital to make that decision for incoming tourists who is asymptomatic or mild symptoms. IMO, Covid positive patients should not be moving around at all to prevent the spread of the virus unless they are totally sick, out of breath, non-stop sneezing or coughing etc..that need to be send through ambulance. I do not get it and I do understand that hotel and hospital are just following orders and protocols. To my understanding, I'll need to follow it up with Pattaya officials by calling them or send email, how the heck they publish those articles that I send you without taking any further action or development, looks like they forgot or dropped the ball.

If I have to go to Pattaya in the next 3-4 months, I'll be ready in the worst case scenario so in case of a false positive on Day 1, I'll make sure that I have the best insurance( not Thai insurance due to the fact that someone on this forum said that you'll never get the money back after submitting claim) that I have along a credit card with a rewards on it because never know what will happen.

[AussieBob]

11 minutes ago, ace035 said:

So, you're telling me it's up to the hotel and hospital to make that decision for incoming tourists who is asymptomatic or mild symptoms. IMO, Covid positive patients should not be moving around at all to prevent the spread of the virus unless they are totally sick, out of breath, non-stop sneezing or coughing etc..that need to be send through ambulance. I do not get it and I do understand that hotel and hospital are just following orders and protocols. To my understanding, I'll need to follow it up with Pattaya officials by calling them or send email, how the heck they publish those articles that I send you without taking any further action or development, looks like they forgot or dropped the ball.

If I have to go to Pattaya in the next 3-4 months, I'll be ready in the worst case scenario so in case of a false positive on Day 1, I'll make sure that I have the best insurance( not Thai insurance due to the fact that someone on this forum said that you'll never get the money back after submitting claim) that I have along a credit card with a rewards on it because never know what will happen.

All good - but your comment "hotel and hospital are just following orders and protocols" is not true.  In Thailand they follow all rules and protocols that they want to follow - the rest they ignore.   Good luck contacting "Pattaya officials" - you will be waiting a long long time for a reply/answer.

They just dropped day 5 testing.  They will probably drop day 1 testing when the numbers of daily cases comes back down a lot - 1 month? 2 months?  Wait - it is a matter of when - not if - they will drop all testing after arrival soon - and sooner of people ignore the day 5 cancelled test and wait for the day 1 test to be cancelled.  The odds of testing positive on day 1 are high enough now, and they are getting higher.  Wait. Pattaya aint going anywhere. 

[Cabra]

OPINION: Expats have never been, nor will they ever be a priority for THA (except maybe cheap labor B visas). Even these new schemes to attracted so called rich expats are mostly ill conceived nonsense that will fall flat (for various reasons). It's also inaccurate to say there are a lot of retirement visas in THA (or that they cater to or should move on from retirees). Truth is there are probably less than 200k (the last number I read was 100k in 2017/2018) retirement visas having been issued. And while there are many visa types, there just aren't many retirement visas. There are only ~3 million legit expats all together, and nearly 1.8 million are on work visas (B visa) mostly from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia. However, the other 1 million expats not accounted for as married to Thai, retired or working are mostly gaming the system working ever angle to visit as frequently and stay as long as possible without having to commit to marriage, job or income requirements. No judgmental. These are just the numbers on the ground.

As far as tourist go, it's a volume game and worth twice as much to Thailand as are expats (3 million expats spending 1 million baht per year are worth far less than 40 miilion tourist spending 150k baht per trip), and tourism is never going to fully rebound until they put an end to PRC testing on arrival. 

 

[AussieBob]

OMG - check this out - thanks to @Rob666666

 

We advise everyone  traveling with children to pay attention to this part of the fine print which made us cancel even though we already have an approved Thaipass:

(3) In cases of a child is NOT infected, but ONLY his/her parents/guardians are infected, another family member may care for the child. If there is no family member or guardian to care for the child, the child is to be placed in a welfare centre or accommodation under the care of the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security

 

[LoongFred]

On 2/24/2022 at 12:38 PM, Cabra said:

OPINION: Expats have never been, nor will they ever be a priority for THA (except maybe cheap labor B visas). Even these new schemes to attracted so called rich expats are mostly ill conceived nonsense that will fall flat (for various reasons). It's also inaccurate to say there are a lot of retirement visas in THA (or that they cater to or should move on from retirees). Truth is there are probably less than 200k (the last number I read was 100k in 2017/2018) retirement visas having been issued. And while there are many visa types, there just aren't many retirement visas. There are only ~3 million legit expats all together, and nearly 1.8 million are on work visas (B visa) mostly from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia. However, the other 1 million expats not accounted for as married to Thai, retired or working are mostly gaming the system working ever angle to visit as frequently and stay as long as possible without having to commit to marriage, job or income requirements. No judgmental. These are just the numbers on the ground.

As far as tourist go, it's a volume game and worth twice as much to Thailand as are expats (3 million expats spending 1 million baht per year are worth far less than 40 miilion tourist spending 150k baht per trip), and tourism is never going to fully rebound until they put an end to PRC testing on arrival. 

Went to immigration today at 11 AM to do a 90 day. No one was there except the IO and IO boss. Both very nice ladies.  Definitely not busy. Outside the police did have a truck full of illegals from Myanmar 6-8 maybe.

  The sign in sheet had about 20 names and started at new years. I didn't have to sign in though.

[mat45]

Dear Experts,

how does this new day-5-ATK-test practically happen, did not find a really precise information about that. Is there an official way such us for the day-1-PCR-test which is organized by authorities or does it mean you have to go to 7-11, buy yourself a test kit, do the test by yourself and no one checks the result except you?

Best,
Matthias