Pfizer new antiviral Covid treatment

[Bob20]

Following the approval of MSD's Mulnopiravir in the UK, Pfizer is now launching Paxlovir (not approved yet).

It claims a much higher success rate than Merck's treatment, preventing 89% of severe illness or death when given soon after a positive test.

I'm not posting this to argue over figures or over vaccines vs treatment, but as it's not even mentioned in the Thai news, I thought I'd share it.

The source is from Pfizer, so will attract comments, but it's just to inform readers on it becoming available in the not too distant future.

The UK has ordered 200.000 courses of treatment, in addition to the 500.000 they had ordered from Merck already.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizers-novel-covid-19-oral-antiviral-treatment-candidate

[Griff1315]

8 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Following the approval of MSD's Mulnopiravir in the UK, Pfizer is now launching Paxlovir (not approved yet).

It claims a much higher success rate than Merck's treatment, preventing 89% of severe illness or death when given soon after a positive test.

I'm not posting this to argue over figures or over vaccines vs treatment, but as it's not even mentioned in the Thai news, I thought I'd share it.

The source is from Pfizer, so will attract comments, but it's just to inform readers on it becoming available in the not too distant future.

The UK has ordered 200.000 courses of treatment, in addition to the 500.000 they had ordered from Merck already.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizers-novel-covid-19-oral-antiviral-treatment-candidate

Any treatment is a bonus.

Better than relying on Mr Ed's pills ....

[Soidog]

Yes this is fantastic news. The news yesterday was good news, but today’s is even better. A cliche often used, but this is a real game changer

[gummy]

8 hours ago, Soidog said:

this is a real game changer

Let's hope so anyway and that the medication is affordable and able to be produced in any country at cost for the benefit of mankind rather than just American pharma !!  There are other companies working on similar medication development so let's hope Indian companies can bring it to the world also.

[Bob20]

 

Sky News: COVID-19: Pfizer licence for new pill could make treatment available to half world's population.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-licence-for-new-pill-could-make-treatment-available-to-half-worlds-population-12470026

[gummy]

8 hours ago, Bob20 said:

Sky News: COVID-19: Pfizer licence for new pill could make treatment available to half world's population.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-licence-for-new-pill-could-make-treatment-available-to-half-worlds-population-12470026

Don't want to repeat here but Just posted in a separate thread that Pfizer will not allow local production by Thailand.

[longwood50]

Perhaps this is the answer.  If you look at the statistics even countries with high vaccination rates are still experiencing high rates of covid infections.  Certainly vaccines are a good preventive measure but the solution might just be coming up with effective treatments once a person contracts covid. 

[billywillyjones]

should be greatly profitable for Pfizer unlike Ivermectin which could earn them pennies rather than billions... 

[Bob20]

1 hour ago, billywillyjones said:

should be greatly profitable for Pfizer unlike Ivermectin which could earn them pennies rather than billions... 

Pfizer doesn't produce ivermectin. Merck does, and could have made a huge amount of money since the start of the pandemic, except for the fact that they say it doesn't work.

Now why would big pharma, only keen on making money according to some, not have taken advantage of the situation? They didn't just -not- promote it and openly said it doesn't work, but they didn't even produce huge stockpiles for the ones who wanted to buy it voluntarily! That says enough really.

[Bob20]

2 hours ago, longwood50 said:

Perhaps this is the answer.  If you look at the statistics even countries with high vaccination rates are still experiencing high rates of covid infections.  Certainly vaccines are a good preventive measure but the solution might just be coming up with effective treatments once a person contracts covid. 

No, it really won't. The medication will be effective only if taken soon after being infected and in mild to moderate cases. 

To prevent yourself ending up in the situation that you 1) need the medication, 2) receive it in time and 3) are part of the group that it works for, you're far better off to have been vaccinated to prevent the need for this medication in the first place.

Besides, even if you receive the medication in time and recover, you could be re-infected, having to repeat the process. 

When comparing the costs of the medication with vaccines, that's another reason and if the patient would be charged, I'm sure some would run for a jab soon after.

For now vaccination remains the best prevention.

[Soidog9]

13 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Pfizer doesn't produce ivermectin. Merck does, and could have made a huge amount of money since the start of the pandemic, except for the fact that they say it doesn't work.

Now why would big pharma, only keen on making money according to some, not have taken advantage of the situation? They didn't just -not- promote it and openly said it doesn't work, but they didn't even produce huge stockpiles for the ones who wanted to buy it voluntarily! That says enough really.

And yet Dr. John Campbell reported on YOU TUBE last week that the Pfizer pill works to block the Covid virus in the same manner as Ivermectin.  But goes on to say Ivermectin actually blocks the virus replication process on more levels than the new pill.  So why have the governments that continued to push high priced cures while rejecting Ivermectin ..... now suggesting that the new Pfizer pill is the holy grail to fight Covid?

[Soidog9]

2 minutes ago, Soidog9 said:

And yet Dr. John Campbell reported on YOU TUBE last week that the Pfizer pill works to block the Covid virus in the same manner as Ivermectin.  But goes on to say Ivermectin actually blocks the virus replication process on more levels than the new pill.  So why have the governments that continued to push high priced cures while rejecting Ivermectin ..... now suggesting that the new Pfizer pill is the holy grail to fight Covid?

 

[Bob20]

I've already commented on John Campbell before, so not wasting more time on that. I'm not here to convince people that keep peddling debunked material and don't have better arguments.

That governments are pushing medication is also nonsense. They are the paying customers and Pfizer have again foregone most profit on the new product during the pandemic.

And about their working, there are already full-fact articles you could have read:

https://fullfact.org/online/new-protease-inhibitor/

Vaccination remains the best prevention. And if you inadvertently are one of the few who still fall ill while vaccinated, or are unvaccinated for whatever reason, let's hope the medication works. But the new medication is no replacement for the vaccines, nor a solution to end the pandemic.

[ThailandRyan]

18 minutes ago, Soidog9 said:

And yet Dr. John Campbell reported on YOU TUBE last week that the Pfizer pill works to block the Covid virus in the same manner as Ivermectin.  But goes on to say Ivermectin actually blocks the virus replication process on more levels than the new pill.  So why have the governments that continued to push high priced cures while rejecting Ivermectin ..... now suggesting that the new Pfizer pill is the holy grail to fight Covid?

John Campbell is not a doctor.  He misuses the credentials because he has a PHD.  He is a Nurse and a Nurse teacher and he is both pro vaccine and pro ivermectin.  Better check your sources again Sir.

[mickkotlarski]

9 minutes ago, Soidog9 said:

I'm glad you raised this. I've also followed Dr.Campbell and his data has been provided since the start of the pandemic. His most impressive clip was in December 2020. I wondered how long it would be until Ivermectin became public knowledge.

It took Joe Rogan contracting Covid19 and being cured with a cocktail of medications prescribed by a physician to go public. After that hard core propaganda  outlets like CNN and the Young Turks on you tube attacked him and claimed he used medications for horse deworming.

But the fact is Ivermectin is widely and successfully used to combat several viruses but it has a major problem. 

Its easily affordable for the  general public and works well. Big enemy to Big Pharma and bodies such as the FDA. 93% of the FDA funds are provided by large Pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer. 

Its another taboo medicine that is like ephedrine. Works too well and is affordable. The pharmacy cartel misses out.

 

[longwood50]

43 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

For now vaccination remains the best prevention.

It is the "best prevention" but certainly not the end all.  My own daughter got two vaccine shots of Pfizer and was infected later on with Covid.   Professional golfer John Rahm got covid recovered, then was fully vaccinated and got covid a second time.  His own antibodies from the first infection should have given him adequate protection. 

Portugal is the highest vaccinated EU country and Spain the 3rd highest.  Both countries have among the highest rates of Covid infection in Europe. 

So while I have been vaccinated and would encourage everyone to do so, the vaccines seem most effective at reducing the severity of the infection.  That is why I find it hopeful that they have an effective drug to treat covid rather than relying on the vaccine to prevent it.  We have had vaccines to prevent the Flu for decades and yet each year on average 9% of the world contracts the flu.  Despite the vaccine, the virus just keeps mutating.  I suspect we will find the same with Covid that we are always playing wack a mole with a new vaccine, as it mutates and the world has to come up with yet another new vaccine to combat it. 

 

[Soidog9]

30 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

John Campbell is not a doctor.  He misuses the credentials because he has a PHD.  He is a Nurse and a Nurse teacher and he is both pro vaccine and pro ivermectin.  Better check your sources again Sir.

Nurse or doctor makes no difference.  He is correct.  Believe what you will, it's your choice.  

  The new Pfizer pill works completely different from the Pfizer vaccine.  The new pill basically copies Ivermectin blocking action.  I wonder where Pfizer came up with that idea?

Edited November 17, 2021 by Soidog9

[Bob20]

9 minutes ago, Tjampman said:

No not really. I think Ivermectin is not under patent, so all can copy the drug, so it is not worth it for Merck to do the test.

When they say it doesn't work i think it is that it has not been tested and proven to work.

I believe there is a trial going on somewhere heard something about ngo where doing double blind trials. so maybe in the future we will know.

Sorry but that is not correct. Merck could simply re-patent it as it previously wasn't patented for use with Covid and there are other tricks if they really wanted to. And as I previously stated, they and others could have mass produced it so the shelves would be stocked for the ones that wanted to self-medicate. But they didn't even simply do that. So people reverted to using veterinary stuff.

BTW they did do their analysis, as they could have made a fortune with it already being available for human use and they would not have to follow every safety trial from scratch. But their research showed it had no effect.

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

 

[ThailandRyan]

17 minutes ago, Soidog9 said:

Nurse or doctor makes no difference.  He is correct.  Believe what you will, it's your choice.  

  The new Pfizer pill works compleltely different from the Pfizer vaccine.  The new pill basically copies Ivermectin.  I wonder where Pfizer came up with that idea?

Would you still believe him if he was a mailman who read information he delivered and passed it on.  It makes a big difference as to whether he is a doctor or a Nurse.  Unless your a nurse practitioner like my daughter, nurses can not prescribe medicines.

Please show us the formularies for both Ivermectin and the new Pfizer pill to prove your statement.  Stop posting misinformation and confusing the issue with what it is.  I find it hard to believe that you believe the Pfizer pill is Ivermectin in disguise

Edited November 17, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[Soidog9]

29 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Sorry but that is not correct. Merck could simply re-patent it as it previously wasn't patented for use with Covid and there are other tricks if they really wanted to. And as I previously stated, they and others could have mass produced it so the shelves would be stocked for the ones that wanted to self-medicate. But they didn't even simply do that. So people reverted to using veterinary stuff.

BTW they did do their analysis, as they could have made a fortune with it already being available for human use and they would not have to follow every safety trial from scratch. But their research showed it had no effect.

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

 Merck’s patent on Ivermectin expired in 1996 and they produce less than 5% of global supply.  There is plenty of Ivermectin produced for the world but not by Merck.  Not worthwhile re-patenting it for Covid use when it would be competing with so much generic drugs that could be prescribed off-label.    

   The problem is that the FDA will not allow Ivermectin it to be disbursed for Covid-19.  Other countries had a great results with Ivermectin against Covid.  Yet this is not proof enough for the FDA.   Why?    Because  the Covid-19 vaccines would not have been given Emergency Use Authorization in the USA if Ivermectin was confirmed to fight Covid.  They would have been required to spend much more time an money testing their vaccines.  So the drugs companies did not want Ivermectin be seen as a possible treatment.

   So now Pfizer comes out with a pill that does the same thing as Ivermectin.    Is there a conspiracy?   If it looks like a duck, walks like duck & quacks like a duck........... it is likely a duck.

 

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, Soidog9 said:

 Merck’s patent on Ivermectin expired in 1996 and they produce less than 5% of global supply.  There is plenty of Ivermectin produced for the world but not by Merck.  Not worthwhile re-patenting it for Covid use when it would be competing with so much generic drugs that could be prescribed off-label.    

   The problem is that the FDA will not allow Ivermectin it to be disbursed for Covid-19.  Other countries had a great results with Ivermectin against Covid.  Yet this is not proof enough for the FDA.   Why?    Because  the Covid-19 vaccines would not have been given Emergency Use Authorization in the USA if Ivermectin was confirmed to fight Covid.  They would have been required to spend much more time an money testing their vaccines.  So the drugs companies did not want Ivermectin be seen as a possible treatment.

   So now Pfizer comes out with a pill that does the same thing as Ivermectin.    Is there a conspiracy?   If it looks like a duck, walks like duck & quacks like a duck........... it is likely a duck.

You clearly didn't read the link that I sent, which shows you that it's absolutely not the same.

Also, no other country has shown effectiveness of ivermectin against Covid. No more than saying "I ate an M&M for 5 days and my Covid has gone". All the claims for ivermectin are for light to medium cases, which for 99% clear up by the selves and taking ivermectin or an M&M proves nothing.

And the 1% that ended up in hospital in serious condition or even in ICU were quick to renounce it and accept other medical help!

[Soidog9]

36 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Would you still believe him if he was a mailman who read information he delivered and passed it on.  It makes a big difference as to whether he is a doctor or a Nurse.  Unless your a nurse practitioner like my daughter, nurses can not prescribe medicines.

Please show us the formularies for both Ivermectin and the new Pfizer pill to prove your statement.  Stop posting misinformation and confusing the issue with what it is.  I find it hard to believe that you believe the Pfizer pill is Ivermectin in disguise

If someone has the reaserch to back up what they say I would believe them even if they were the mailman.   It is about having intellect & logic ...... not a the professional title.   Do your own research if you really want to know.  Prove that Ivermectin does not block the virus in the same manner as the Pfizer pill.

[mickkotlarski]

1 hour ago, Soidog9 said:

Nurse or doctor makes no difference.  He is correct.  Believe what you will, it's your choice.  

  The new Pfizer pill works completely different from the Pfizer vaccine.  The new pill basically copies Ivermectin blocking action.  I wonder where Pfizer came up with that idea?

None of the people in this forum are qualified physicians or microbiologists but each has data to pass on and opinions to share.

The Pfizer medication is a blocking agent as described and should the virus enter the body and not have the chance to infiltrate cell tissue (especially pulmonary) then it can basically kill it (covid19) as a free radical. 

Results speak louder than words but many successful cases have been kept low profile.

Its a shame to see folk arguing about this as humanity will not be rid of Covid19 until an anti viral treatment that can kill the virus without side affects is developed.

My fingers are crossed that the Massachusetts General Hospital can succeed with the AGO4 protein. It'll be one less topic for us to debate about but a great leap forward for humanity. Only fear is that Big Pharma will do to them what they did to Oxford Laboratories. 

[Soidog9]

15 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

You clearly didn't read the link that I sent, which shows you that it's absolutely not the same.

Also, no other country has shown effectiveness of ivermectin against Covid. No more than saying "I ate an M&M for 5 days and my Covid has gone". All the claims for ivermectin are for light to medium cases, which for 99% clear up by the selves and taking ivermectin or an M&M proves nothing.

And the 1% that ended up in hospital in serious condition or even in ICU were quick to renounce it and accept other medical help!

Bob....... I did read your link.   It says "Pfizer drug candidate is a “protease inhibitor” and that “Ivermectin was found as a blocker of viral replicase, protease and Human TMPRSS2”.    Last thing I knew "Protease Inhibitor " meant an agent that slows or interferes with a chemical action.  "Protease blocker" means pretty much the same thing.  That being the point.  They both do the same thing.   Actually Ivermectin does more.   I never said they were chemically the same.

  India has had massive success using Ivermectin.  Let's use that country as an example.  And by the way.......they did not take M&Ms.  And we are talking about the 99% of the population that you can help not the 1% that have existing conditions that end up in the hospital and will likely die no matter what treatment they receive.

[Bob20]

On 11/17/2021 at 5:34 PM, Soidog9 said:

Bob....... I did read your link.   It says "Pfizer drug candidate is a “protease inhibitor” and that “Ivermectin was found as a blocker of viral replicase, protease and Human TMPRSS2”.    Last thing I knew "Protease Inhibitor " meant an agent that slows or interferes with a chemical action.  "Protease blocker" means pretty much the same thing.  That being the point.  They both do the same thing.   Actually Ivermectin does more.   I never said they were chemically the same.

  India has had massive success using Ivermectin.  Let's use that country as an example.  And by the way.......they did not take M&Ms.  And we are talking about the 99% of the population that you can help not the 1% that have existing conditions that end up in the hospital and will likely die no matter what treatment they receive.

Well, there is a huge difference between an inhibitor and a blocker. Paxlovid and ivermectin also have different pathways.

And India was never shown as having success with ivermectin. That some took it and recovered and some didn't take it and recovered just the same, means absolutely nothing. That's the basis for all claims, as light and moderate infection clear without medication as well. That's why they may as well have taken m&m's. There isn't a single conclusive research paper that proves it works, and it being available all through the pandemic and people claiming large population countries' success, there should be plenty available.