UK Pensioners

[Agudbuk]

 

UK Frozen Pensions

 

UK politicians say that's the way it's always  been.  Probably said the same thing about women getting the vote.

If it was a private pension company freezing pensions would it be acceptable?

If there are going to be frozen pensions freeze them all. Public and private schemes, UK resident and foreign resident.

Make it fair.

 

 

 

 

[Rookiescot]

34 minutes ago, Agudbuk said:

UK Frozen Pensions

UK politicians say that's the way it's always  been.  Probably said the same thing about women getting the vote.

If it was a private pension company freezing pensions would it be acceptable?

If there are going to be frozen pensions freeze them all. Public and private schemes, UK resident and foreign resident.

Make it fair.

OK then freeze my company pension but stop taxing it given I no longer live in the UK. I would be WAY better off.

For what its worth I dont agree with state pensions being frozen but why do you want EVERYONE to suffer because of it?

[Saltire]

47 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

OK then freeze my company pension but stop taxing it given I no longer live in the UK. I would be WAY better off.

 

Agree, I have paid UK income tax every year for the last 10 years since I left.

My UK pension just started this year on my 66th birthday meaning my tax bill will be more than before from now on,

Now it is adequate, but what will it be worth in 10 years time?

 

 

 

[Agudbuk]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

OK then freeze my company pension but stop taxing it given I no longer live in the UK. I would be WAY better off.

For what its worth I dont agree with state pensions being frozen but why do you want EVERYONE to suffer because of it?

Setting it as a comparison to show how unfair freezing the state pension is even though all pay the same amount of National Insurance

[Rookiescot]

53 minutes ago, Agudbuk said:

Setting it as a comparison to show how unfair freezing the state pension is even though all pay the same amount of National Insurance

I think everyone agrees its unfair. Calling for others to suffer as well seems ridiculous given they will have made contributions to those pension schemes throughout their working lives.

As I alluded to earlier I also pay a lot of tax every month when I receive my company pension even though I am no longer resident in the UK and because I do not yet qualify for a state pension I gain absolutely no benefit at all for paying that tax. What I am doing though is paying for YOUR state pension.

We also do not all pay the same National insurance.

 

Example

If you’re in category A and you earn £1,000 in a week you’ll pay:

nothing on the first £184

12% (£93.96) on your earnings between £184.01 and £967

2% (£0.66) on the remaining earnings above £967

This means your National Insurance payment will be £94.62 for the week.

Now again this shows the unfairness within the system. It should be a flat rate for all earnings but of course rich people dont want that so earnings above 967 pounds per week the tax rate drops to 2%.

Pretty crap eh?

 

[Agudbuk]

20 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I think everyone agrees its unfair. Calling for others to suffer as well seems ridiculous given they will have made contributions to those pension schemes throughout their working lives.

As I alluded to earlier I also pay a lot of tax every month when I receive my company pension even though I am no longer resident in the UK and because I do not yet qualify for a state pension I gain absolutely no benefit at all for paying that tax. What I am doing though is paying for YOUR state pension.

We also do not all pay the same National insurance.

Example

If you’re in category A and you earn £1,000 in a week you’ll pay:

nothing on the first £184

12% (£93.96) on your earnings between £184.01 and £967

2% (£0.66) on the remaining earnings above £967

This means your National Insurance payment will be £94.62 for the week.

Now again this shows the unfairness within the system. It should be a flat rate for all earnings but of course rich people dont want that so earnings above 967 pounds per week the tax rate drops to 2%.

Pretty crap eh?

Graduated system same as taxation. 

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, Agudbuk said:

Graduated system same as taxation. 

Indeed. The rich do not like paying tax so the entire system is loaded in their favour.

Even then they employ tax evasion and avoidance. But of course things the government does costs money so they ensure others are paying it.

Estimates vary as to how much revenue is lost to the exchequer every year because of tax avoidance and evasion but in the UK its something like 50 billion pounds. Every year.

If they had that money your pension might not be frozen. 

[Benroon]

12 hours ago, Agudbuk said:

UK Frozen Pensions

UK politicians say that's the way it's always  been.  Probably said the same thing about women getting the vote.

If it was a private pension company freezing pensions would it be acceptable?

If there are going to be frozen pensions freeze them all. Public and private schemes, UK resident and foreign resident.

Make it fair.

How public and private pensions are funded are entirely unconnected - are you saying you want others to suffer just because you do ?

There was nothing stopping you getting both 

[Benroon]

11 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

OK then freeze my company pension but stop taxing it given I no longer live in the UK. I would be WAY better off.

For what its worth I dont agree with state pensions being frozen but why do you want EVERYONE to suffer because of it?

Declare yourself non resident, that will stop it getting taxed 

[Benroon]

9 hours ago, Agudbuk said:

Setting it as a comparison to show how unfair freezing the state pension is even though all pay the same amount of National Insurance

To be fair I think you need to read up on how pensions work. 

[Benroon]

7 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Indeed. The rich do not like paying tax so the entire system is loaded in their favour.

Even then they employ tax evasion and avoidance. But of course things the government does costs money so they ensure others are paying it.

Estimates vary as to how much revenue is lost to the exchequer every year because of tax avoidance and evasion but in the UK its something like 50 billion pounds. Every year.

If they had that money your pension might not be frozen. 

But playing devils advocate, the top 1% of earners pay 25% of all income tax ! 

In your tax evasion figures will be a significant black market consideration by ‘working class’ people - never had a plumber fix your radiator for cash ? It’s not exclusively a ‘rich’ thing. 

[Agudbuk]

6 hours ago, Benroon said:

To be fair I think you need to read up on how pensions work. 

Maybe I did not make it clear. I meant that all pay in on the same scale . Meaning that expats should get the same pension payments as people retiring in the UK.

Imagine twins, living in the UK all their working lives on exactly the same salary doing the same work. Both pay into the same pivate (non-opted out) pension scheme.

On retirement one stays in the UK and the other emigrated to be with family in Canada. 

Both will get their private pension with any inflation increases .

The state pension however is frozen for the twin that goes to Canada.

Is that fair?

After 10 years the twin in Canada  moves to the USA and then gets the same pension payments as his twin in the UK.i hope that illustrates the unfairness. 

 

[Saltire]

7 hours ago, Benroon said:

Declare yourself non resident, that will stop it getting taxed 

Ah there's the rub! I am declared non-resident but money earned in the UK is still taxed in the UK.

[Saltire]

2 minutes ago, Agudbuk said:

Maybe I did not make it clear. I meant that all pay in on the same scale . Meaning that expats should get the same pension payments as people retiring in the UK.

Imagine twins, living in the UK all their working lives on exactly the same salary doing the same work. Both pay into the same pivate (non-opted out) pension scheme.

On retirement one stays in the UK and the other emigrated to be with family in Canada. 

Both will get their private pension with any inflation increases .

The state pension however is frozen for the twin that goes to Canada.

Is that fair?

After 10 years the twin in Canada  moves to the USA and then gets the same pension payments as his twin in the UK.i hope that illustrates the unfairness. 

That's me and my twin back in the UK

Got our pension Feb this year at 66. Both had good jobs and good rivate pensions.

My UK goov pension is about £10 a week more than him, but that wont last long as mine is fixed and his will rise.

There is no argument for this, it's a scandal and I hope it gets fixed soon, but I am not hopeful with the state of governments these days.

 

[Benroon]

9 hours ago, Saltire said:

Ah there's the rub! I am declared non-resident but money earned in the UK is still taxed in the UK.

How is it 'earned' ? If it's money taken from a UK registered business so paying you profits etc yes. 

If it's from investments, equities, private pensions (SIPPS) etc then it won't be taxed and you will be paid gross

A lot of people think that ANY money generated in the UK is taxable but that's not the case.

[Benroon]

9 hours ago, Agudbuk said:

Maybe I did not make it clear. I meant that all pay in on the same scale . Meaning that expats should get the same pension payments as people retiring in the UK.

Imagine twins, living in the UK all their working lives on exactly the same salary doing the same work. Both pay into the same pivate (non-opted out) pension scheme.

On retirement one stays in the UK and the other emigrated to be with family in Canada. 

Both will get their private pension with any inflation increases .

The state pension however is frozen for the twin that goes to Canada.

Is that fair?

After 10 years the twin in Canada  moves to the USA and then gets the same pension payments as his twin in the UK.i hope that illustrates the unfairness. 

Now we're in agreement but you've removed one of the goal posts - you said that private pension holders should 'suffer' (my word) becuase state pension holders do.

I entirely agree it's an unfair system but I believe they are reciprocal arrangements ? and there would be no appetite to unravel it as that would present a huge bill to an already cash strapped government. Personally life is too short to worry about amounts like that. 

Out of interest I wonder what would happen if you came back to the UK for a year or so - then declared yourself a resident again ? Would you then go on the current pension ? If so you could then just depart again on the new one ? I don't know.

[Agudbuk]

6 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Now we're in agreement but you've removed one of the goal posts - you said that private pension holders should 'suffer' (my word) becuase state pension holders do.

I entirely agree it's an unfair system but I believe they are reciprocal arrangements ? and there would be no appetite to unravel it as that would present a huge bill to an already cash strapped government. Personally life is too short to worry about amounts like that. 

Out of interest I wonder what would happen if you came back to the UK for a year or so - then declared yourself a resident again ? Would you then go on the current pension ? If so you could then just depart again on the new one ? I don't know.

I'm not 100% sure on this but I think the correct pension with increases is paid immediatley when in the UK or if you visit a country where it is not frozen. Now this is the bit I am not sure on but I think if you can prove permanent residency in the UK again  with proofs of  foreign property sales / rental terminations  that the pensions can be reset I think I read it takes several years. After which you could emigrate again and have the pension frozen at the revised rate.  I would think the burocracy would be a nightmare. 

In theory you have to be in UK for 6 months to get free NHS treatment .

 

 

 

[Marble-eye]

1 minute ago, Agudbuk said:

I'm not 100% sure on this but I think the correct pension with increases is paid immediatley when in the UK or if you visit a country where it is not frozen. Now this is the bit I am not sure on but I think if you can prove permanent residency in the UK again  with proofs of  foreign property sales / rental terminations  that the pensions can be reset I think I read it takes several years. After which you could emigrate again and have the pension frozen at the revised rate.  I would think the burocracy would be a nightmare. 

In theory you have to be in UK for 6 months to get free NHS treatment .

As far as I'm aware it is up to the pensions officer discretion as to whether the pension gets paid permanently, of course that will be judged in years, could be any length of time.

You say "in theory you have to be in UK for 6 months to get free NHS treatment" the general concensus on that one is if you tell them that you have returned permanently you will get your treatment which we have all paid for over the years.

[Saltire]

16 hours ago, Benroon said:

How is it 'earned' ? If it's money taken from a UK registered business so paying you profits etc yes. 

If it's from investments, equities, private pensions (SIPPS) etc then it won't be taxed and you will be paid gross

A lot of people think that ANY money generated in the UK is taxable but that's not the case.

Yes my pensions are paid gross but I still have to do a tax return where anything over your personal allowance is taxed.

I have a very good UK accountant who does mine annually.

I have paid tax for the last 10 years, and believe me I've spoken to HMRC several times, they always win.

https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Saltire

[Fluke]

16 hours ago, Marble-eye said:

You say "in theory you have to be in UK for 6 months to get free NHS treatment" the general concensus on that one is if you tell them that you have returned permanently you will get your treatment which we have all paid for over the years.

You need to registers with a G.P first to get any treatment . 

To register you need a home address with a utility bill/official mail in your name sent to that address .

   If you are already registered , no need to tell the G.P that you have been abroad .

I recently went to visit my G.P after being abroad for ten years , and I just told them I hadn't needed to visit the doctor because I hadn't felt unwell in ten years

[LoongFred]

This is rich. The British finally have something legit  to complain about. So it's not just the falling pound that doing them in, it can also be health costs and inflation. 

I now understand why many are grumpy old men and it's nothing to do with Thailand. Meanwhile, the US social security has announced an auto adjustment of 5.9% for inflation. Taken in reverse the UK pension is worth 5.9% less next year.

[Rookiescot]

8 hours ago, LoongFred said:

This is rich. The British finally have something legit  to complain about. So it's not just the falling pound that doing them in, it can also be health costs and inflation. 

I now understand why many are grumpy old men and it's nothing to do with Thailand. Meanwhile, the US social security has announced an auto adjustment of 5.9% for inflation. Taken in reverse the UK pension is worth 5.9% less next year.

Its nice that you gloat about others suffering. 

Of course it could also happen to you eventually so do please bare with us if that happens.

[Faraday]

On 11/8/2021 at 11:27 AM, LoongFred said:

This is rich. The British finally have something legit  to complain about. So it's not just the falling pound that doing them in, it can also be health costs and inflation. 

I now understand why many are grumpy old men and it's nothing to do with Thailand. Meanwhile, the US social security has announced an auto adjustment of 5.9% for inflation. Taken in reverse the UK pension is worth 5.9% less next year.

Got any more pearls of wisdom, Fred?

[Agudbuk]

On 11/7/2021 at 10:56 AM, Fluke said:

You need to registers with a G.P first to get any treatment . 

To register you need a home address with a utility bill/official mail in your name sent to that address .

   If you are already registered , no need to tell the G.P that you have been abroad .

I recently went to visit my G.P after being abroad for ten years , and I just told them I hadn't needed to visit the doctor because I hadn't felt unwell in ten years

New changes reported in  the Express even for European living  UK expats.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1464637/expats-news-brexit-latest-NHS-bills-EU-rules-boris-Johnson-travel-quarantine

[LoongFred]

On 11/12/2021 at 2:26 PM, Faraday said:

Got any more pearls of wisdom, Fred?

Since you asked I'll try answering.

I'm starting to understand why some who only receive a UK pension are unhappy.

During my working years our employers always recommended extra retirement saving  and luckily my wife and I both followed the advise.  We invested the maximum in IRAs to reduce taxes. The problem now is recovering the saving without high taxes. Most will probably go to our children. We also received a company pension that was generious.  

My pearls of wisdom is for young people to save and plan for retirement. Don't rely on the government. If you are already retired on a fixed pension, spend no more that 80% and put 20% away. You'll probably need it.