News Forum - Pattaya frustrated by exclusion from alcohol ban lift in restaurants

[Stardust]

43 minutes ago, kmc said:

Reminds me of my mate Isan John...

Yes only Clowns can advocat Clowns. But the most amazing thing is they think there are only Clowns and kids in the outside world. They even not realize that there are some adults on the forum, too. As I have children I am aware of the awareness from kids and alsways surprised when I read some comments from people who should be too old for such a mindset. They really think the outside world must be clowns too, they are not aware that adults know if someone is an incompetent clown just by listening and watching somebodies actions and not aware that had to care for their business, jobs, family and therefore knows very well what is responsibility, skills and competence.

 

[LoongFred]

10 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Somebody must be a Clown to advocat Clowns or a mindset of kindergarten kids like them never was an adult who knows what competence, skills, responsibility is. Every adult who had to work in a international company needed responsibility, develop skills and competence and is able to see on which level these guys are. A behaviour and mindset like kindergartenkids, no competence or skills . In no company I worked my life they would get any job and I guess you never worked for a international company or in a developed country. Sombody must be a clown or a mindset of a kindergartenkid to advocat it because no responsible adult who not lost his mind or is not dumb like hell would do it. I guess you not exactly know what competence is and for adults in the outside world they ask themself how could it be that this clowns and kindergarten could be in charge. But for sure first you have to know about what is competence, skills and responsibilty and therefore you must be an adult and some minimum education.

You have totally lost me. I have no,zero,idea what you are trying to say.

[LoongFred]

1 hour ago, TWS60 said:

It is unfair, however it reveals the government's ulterior motive, as if any of us need a map to see the chess pieces being moved around.  Never let a fortuitous crisis go to waste.

Pattaya is a proverbial Heroin addict.  Result of prolonged lockdowns represents an engineered rock bottom, which is when rehab is most likely to succeed.  

Objective, clinical POV?  As much as I hate to say it, and for all his faults, the current PM is likely the only one able to resist the addict's protests and desperate pleading, and see this thing through for Pattaya's own long-term good.  Now is the time.

Voices in denial will eventually fade away. 

Punters will find a way, go elsewhere, or, who knows... if allowed, some of it may transfer over to the Dark Side.  I suspect many East Pattaya residents wouldn't be happy about that either.

In any case, Thais will adapt, fill the void and exploit the new situation, as they do.

They are interested in Thailand as a whole, not through the lense of a few drinking falangs. They really don't care about what you want but what Thailand as a whole wants. Majority of Thais bypass Pattaya because of its reputation of, booze,hookers,drugs,and gangs. 

This is there best opportunity to change that.

[Stardust]

36 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

They are interested in Thailand as a whole, not through the lense of a few drinking falangs. They really don't care about what you want but what Thailand as a whole wants. Majority of Thais bypass Pattaya because of its reputation of, booze,hookers,drugs,and gangs. 

This is there best opportunity to change that.

Ok I understand your lense is through a kids eye . First question is who do you think build up Pattaya?! And please dont expect that on the outside world or on this forum has a mindset like little child. Maybe you never learned about reflection or selfreflection and thats the difference when you are become on the stage of an adult. Sure in a mindset of a kid the world is like that with a example I give you now. You come with a monkey to a conference and introduce the monkey as the new ceo of the company. One would say then but it is a monkey the others would be quiet. As sombody who has no knowledge about common sense, selfreflection, reflection and competence you will be angry about the one who said this is a monkey without realizing that the others saw also a monkey and your action would not change this fact. Little kids always blame others for their failure and always angry about somebody tell them what is the failure. Now everybody could see the ones in charge see their actions, what they anounce or how they talk in a press conference and the outside world could see and listen. You expect the outside world is not able to see of someones level, competence or not see if someone is dumb like hell? In my work experience since the 90s if these clowns would take part in a company conference ir meeting on their level of competence and mindset , everybody would look each others face and thinking where these clowns escaped. If you are not able to reflect that it says something about your mindset and level. What do you think would happen I would do my job for a company without responsibility and have no competence or skills for that job. Guess what?! Someone must be a Clown to think an incompetent Clown is good to be in charge to manage a company or a country. But to think the outside world is not able to see and reflect it, someone must have a mindset of a kindergarten kid or dumb like hell or both. I remember a old woman that said on a small restaurant in a village area on the Esan country side when she heard him talking on his friday show that all her animals and even her buffalo is more intelligent then him. There are people outside there who are able to reflect if someone has any competence but if sombody cannot selfreflect himself sure he will not understand it and shows that is mindset is the same of a kindergarten kid. And guess what all could see!

[gummy]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

They are interested in Thailand as a whole, not through the lense of a few drinking falangs. They really don't care about what you want but what Thailand as a whole wants. Majority of Thais bypass Pattaya because of its reputation of, booze,hookers,drugs,and gangs. 

This is there best opportunity to change that.

Well let's not let  stuff and nonsense   get in the way of few facts should we.  Whilst it is unproven that the majority of Thais do not come to Pattaya a 10 year old could no doubt indicate statistically that is true. Out of a population of around 70 million and of those 40 million are of adult age  it is against all probability that the majority of 40 million adult Thais visit one place.   However to state that the majority of Thais bypass is Pattaya is in the realms of absurdity. Why would the majority of 40 million Thais go to Chonburi in the 1st place let alone bypass the city of Pattaya. ?

Pattaya is host to many holidaying Thais and the highways 3 and 7 together with many of the hotels are clear illustration that very many Thais with families  visit Pattaya and was a weekend ritual prior to covid and by reports returning that way again. 

 

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

They are interested in Thailand as a whole, not through the lense of a few drinking falangs. They really don't care about what you want but what Thailand as a whole wants. Majority of Thais bypass Pattaya because of its reputation of, booze,hookers,drugs,and gangs. 

This is there best opportunity to change that.

Ok let me ask who do you think put the mayor of Pattaya in charge after the coup?! Guess who! You must be think like a kid to think Pattaya will become Singapore over night. To develop Singapore it needed skilled and competent people, time or better say a decade and lots of money. All what Thailand at the moment not has. And another question do you understand the difference of their skills and competence of the people who are in charge in Singapore and the one who are in charge in Thailand at the moment??!!!

[JohninDublin]

7 hours ago, Grumpyoldman said:

They want Pattaya dead in the water to rid them of its sleazy reputation. Still too many bars being refurbished here - extra time needed to make those owners bankrupt.

That might well be the ultimate aim, but the powers that be are a bit like arms dealers, who pray for peace, but not just yet.

Besides which, what else does Pattaya really have to offer?

[JohninDublin]

On 10/30/2021 at 9:21 AM, Rip255 said:

Good to see my lobbying for the closure of these dive bars has had an impact.

Barflys out ---》high quality tourists in

Taking the sleaze out of Pattaya is like taking the gambling out of Las Vegas. Never mind quality tourists, how many tourists are you going to attract if you remove either vice from either city? What else can they offer?

In 2019, Pattaya had 9.44 mill visitors. How many of those came to sunbathe on a filthy rat-infested beach or to get ripped off by the Jet-ski Mafia?

[gummy]

24 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Taking the sleaze out of Pattaya is like taking the gambling out of Las Vegas. Never mind quality tourists, how many tourists are you going to attract if you remove either vice from either city? What else can they offer?

In 2019, Pattaya had 9.44 mill visitors. How many of those came to sunbathe on a filthy rat-infested beach or to get ripped off by the Jet-ski Mafia?

The best thing to get Pattaya on its feet and for it to be the no1 destination in SE Asia is to legalise Casinos for the City and let it become a "new Macau".

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, TWS60 said:

It is unfair, however it reveals the government's ulterior motive, as if any of us need a map to see the chess pieces being moved around.  Never let a fortuitous crisis go to waste.

Pattaya is a proverbial Heroin addict.  Result of prolonged lockdowns represents an engineered rock bottom, which is when rehab is most likely to succeed.  

Objective, clinical POV?  As much as I hate to say it, and for all his faults, the current PM is likely the only one able to resist the addict's protests and desperate pleading, and see this thing through for Pattaya's own long-term good.  Now is the time.

Voices in denial will eventually fade away. 

Punters will find a way, go elsewhere, or, who knows... if allowed, some of it may transfer over to the Dark Side.  I suspect many East Pattaya residents wouldn't be happy about that either.

In any case, Thais will adapt, fill the void and exploit the new situation, as they do.

The TH tourism economy is 18% GDP. 25% of visitors go to Pattaya. All things being equal, that's 4.5% of that GDP generated by Pattaya, which is only a fraction of the size of BKK. I've been reading about gov proposals to do something about the image of Pattaya since my first trip to TH in 2006. No doubt they will when they can find something to generate the cash that "fixing" the problem will lose them.

I don't see the Chinese making a lot of difference. In fact they are making the same mistakes in TH as they have made in China itself with their "herd mentality" approach to investment. Not satisfied with building over 50 mill unsold apartments, they have plans to build 100+ casinos in Snooky. A town with a population of 160K and 1.3 mill visitors a year. Vegas which has nearly 150 casinos, has 42 mill tourists, the majority of whom come for the casinos. Now the Chinese are engaged in a large hotel building spree in Pattaya. When they have the same problems that they had with their other two "over-Building" projects, how happy do you think they will be to see the gov trying to eliminate "what made Pattaya famous".

One of my regular watering holes used to be on Soi8. They had a sign there which was meant to discourage Muslims along the lines of, "We respect Islam, and therefore we will not serve Muslims". It was politer than that, but I am sure you will get my drift. On a later visit, I noticed that the sign had been removed and I asked the owner about it. This was just after "credit crunch". He told me that "times were hard", and even if they only sold one bottle to a group of five, it all helped. 

So unless there is something to attract visitors to Pattaya when the sleaze is removed....? 

But a final comment on Pattaya tourism is this: There are two groups who we have seen increasingly in Pattaya in recent years. The Indians and Chinese. We know why most of the Indians come, and OI have a theory about why the Chinese are there. Just like many tourists to Amsterdam, who visit the RLD, where girls are working out of shop-windows, they go to rubber-neck. I am wondering how many Chinese would visit Pattaya if there was no longer anything to rubberneck at? And if the Indians can no longer indulge...?

[JohninDublin]

2 hours ago, LoongFred said:

They are interested in Thailand as a whole, not through the lense of a few drinking falangs. They really don't care about what you want but what Thailand as a whole wants. Majority of Thais bypass Pattaya because of its reputation of, booze,hookers,drugs,and gangs. 

This is there best opportunity to change that.

How dare you accuse that TH gov of altruism? Don't you realise the impact that may have on their brown envelopes if people started to believe that?

[JohninDublin]

35 minutes ago, gummy said:

The best thing to get Pattaya on its feet and for it to be the no1 destination in SE Asia is to legalise Casinos for the City and let it become a "new Macau".

I don't have any problems with legalising gambling, but I suspect that those who can't exercise the necessary self control, would have a miserable time if they were there for say 14 days, and lost all their money on day 2.

[gummy]

2 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

I don't have any problems with legalising gambling, but I suspect that those who can't exercise the necessary self control, would have a miserable time if they were there for say 14 days, and lost all their money on day 2.

They will loose their money wherever they are.

[JohninDublin]

19 minutes ago, gummy said:

They will loose their money wherever they are.

Not if they can't gamble. Besides which, with that attitude, it appears you have no aversion to casinos getting wealthy on the backs of these people.

So how does that benefit tourism? What about the locals who think they have discovered a system, and having lost their money time and again, think "I've only got to add a little tweak to my system and I will never need to work again".

Not one of your better ideas IMO.

[Stardust]

5 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

The TH tourism economy is 18% GDP. 25% of visitors go to Pattaya. All things being equal, that's 4.5% of that GDP generated by Pattaya, which is only a fraction of the size of BKK. I've been reading about gov proposals to do something about the image of Pattaya since my first trip to TH in 2006. No doubt they will when they can find something to generate the cash that "fixing" the problem will lose them.

I don't see the Chinese making a lot of difference. In fact they are making the same mistakes in TH as they have made in China itself with their "herd mentality" approach to investment. Not satisfied with building over 50 mill unsold apartments, they have plans to build 100+ casinos in Snooky. A town with a population of 160K and 1.3 mill visitors a year. Vegas which has nearly 150 casinos, has 42 mill tourists, the majority of whom come for the casinos. Now the Chinese are engaged in a large hotel building spree in Pattaya. When they have the same problems that they had with their other two "over-Building" projects, how happy do you think they will be to see the gov trying to eliminate "what made Pattaya famous".

One of my regular watering holes used to be on Soi8. They had a sign there which was meant to discourage Muslims along the lines of, "We respect Islam, and therefore we will not serve Muslims". It was politer than that, but I am sure you will get my drift. On a later visit, I noticed that the sign had been removed and I asked the owner about it. This was just after "credit crunch". He told me that "times were hard", and even if they only sold one bottle to a group of five, it all helped. 

So unless there is something to attract visitors to Pattaya when the sleaze is removed....? 

But a final comment on Pattaya tourism is this: There are two groups who we have seen increasingly in Pattaya in recent years. The Indians and Chinese. We know why most of the Indians come, and OI have a theory about why the Chinese are there. Just like many tourists to Amsterdam, who visit the RLD, where girls are working out of shop-windows, they go to rubber-neck. I am wondering how many Chinese would visit Pattaya if there was no longer anything to rubberneck at? And if the Indians can no longer indulge...?

Fully agree with your comment but it is difficult to explain people with a mindset of a kindergarten kid. As I have children I am aware of such mindsets and on which level he and they are. It is like the little children who wanna be a astronout but not aware that it is a long way to be that and they say I wanna be Singapore but have not the the brain or mindset it is a long way to there, needs skilled and compenent people and a lot of money. What shocks me is that Thailand becomes a hub of incompetent clowns since they are in charge. And if you hear people who support such Clowns that their mindset is the same of little kid. At a kid you can understand that but if people in a age from 20 to 60 are on that level, unable to reflect anything or themself, dumb and like they never saw a school from inside have a say or can come in charge to manage a country is quite shocking. What will happen with Thailand ruled and managed by incompetent clowns, people with a mindset of a kindergarten kid. Sombody must lost his mind to think it is good for a country to be ruled and managed by such unskilled, incompetent Clowns. What also is shocking they even not know the difference between competent experts or skilled people for example who develop Singapore and the ones who are in charge in Thailand. If you not even that understand who will save this country? And if you compare their competence or iq neutral with Thaksin it is quite shocking. So it is no wonder everything went down and now they have a huge liquity problem inside their economy with a private houshold debt of 98% of the gdp and yearly state household deficits and with a economy that can compensate the liquidity problem only with tourism. But even if you them the numbers then they are too dumb cliwn supporters to understand. I asked one of them according to the private houshold debts, if you have to pay from your monthly income every month your debts and interests do you have more money to spend every month for shopping or less. He needed long time to think about it and to find out what could be the answer. They are too dumb even to understand in what situation they are or their economy but say the want to be Singapore or a little kud with no money I want a ferrari.

[gummy]

5 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Not if they can't gamble. Besides which, with that attitude, it appears you have no aversion to casinos getting wealthy on the backs of these people.

So how does that benefit tourism? What about the locals who think they have discovered a system, and having lost their money time and again, think "I've only got to add a little tweak to my system and I will never need to work again".

Not one of your better ideas IMO.

Can't gamble  ? which universe do you live in, certainly not this one. I have seen people gambling at traffic lights in Bangkok on the time it takes to change colour. People who have that addiction will gamble anyway  on anything. The casinos will just bring in the wealthy punters from elsewhere and provide much needed employment for the locals and the service industries.

[LoongFred]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

Ok let me ask who do you think put the mayor of Pattaya in charge after the coup?! Guess who! You must be think like a kid to think Pattaya will become Singapore over night. To develop Singapore it needed skilled and competent people, time or better say a decade and lots of money. All what Thailand at the moment not has. And another question do you understand the difference of their skills and competence of the people who are in charge in Singapore and the one who are in charge in Thailand at the moment??!!!

Plenty of skilled people in Thailand, but most would not live in Pattaya unless it's cleaned up.

 

[Poolie]

3 minutes ago, gummy said:

Can't gamble  ? which universe do you live in, certainly not this one. I have seen people gambling at traffic lights in Bangkok on the time it takes to change colour. People who have that addiction will gamble anyway  on anything. The casinos will just bring in the wealthy punters from elsewhere and provide much needed employment for the locals and the service industries.

No wonder there's so many accidents. Ancient farangs piking at what the locals are doing instead of paying attention.

[LoongFred]

2 hours ago, Stardust said:

Ok I understand your lense is through a kids eye . First question is who do you think build up Pattaya?! And please dont expect that on the outside world or on this forum has a mindset like little child. Maybe you never learned about reflection or selfreflection and thats the difference when you are become on the stage of an adult. Sure in a mindset of a kid the world is like that with a example I give you now. You come with a monkey to a conference and introduce the monkey as the new ceo of the company. One would say then but it is a monkey the others would be quiet. As sombody who has no knowledge about common sense, selfreflection, reflection and competence you will be angry about the one who said this is a monkey without realizing that the others saw also a monkey and your action would not change this fact. Little kids always blame others for their failure and always angry about somebody tell them what is the failure. Now everybody could see the ones in charge see their actions, what they anounce or how they talk in a press conference and the outside world could see and listen. You expect the outside world is not able to see of someones level, competence or not see if someone is dumb like hell? In my work experience since the 90s if these clowns would take part in a company conference ir meeting on their level of competence and mindset , everybody would look each others face and thinking where these clowns escaped. If you are not able to reflect that it says something about your mindset and level. What do you think would happen I would do my job for a company without responsibility and have no competence or skills for that job. Guess what?! Someone must be a Clown to think an incompetent Clown is good to be in charge to manage a company or a country. But to think the outside world is not able to see and reflect it, someone must have a mindset of a kindergarten kid or dumb like hell or both. I remember a old woman that said on a small restaurant in a village area on the Esan country side when she heard him talking on his friday show that all her animals and even her buffalo is more intelligent then him. There are people outside there who are able to reflect if someone has any competence but if sombody cannot selfreflect himself sure he will not understand it and shows that is mindset is the same of a kindergarten kid. And guess what all could see!

You've lost me in your verbose response. I think that Pattaya didn't develop logically and/or with purpose. That being said I believe that the current focus of Pattaya on booze and hookers reflects poorly on the rest of Thailand.  Authorities  probably realize that the silver lining on the current crisis is that they can change things for the better and possibly make Pattaya a world class destination. With many bars already closed and walking street cleaned up, it should be easy.

Get over it but Thai authorities don't care what a few falangs think, about their booze and babies.

[JohninDublin]

9 minutes ago, gummy said:

Can't gamble  ? which universe do you live in, certainly not this one. I have seen people gambling at traffic lights in Bangkok on the time it takes to change colour. People who have that addiction will gamble anyway  on anything. The casinos will just bring in the wealthy punters from elsewhere and provide much needed employment for the locals and the service industries.

I am not talking about the penny-ante gambling that takes place just about everywhere, and I am also not talking about wealthy gamblers either. So you can refrain from your "which universe" comments,

Do you think these owners will be putting up signs saying, "Only wealthy gamblers allowed in here"?

[gummy]

1 minute ago, JohninDubin said:

I am not talking about the penny-ante gambling that takes place just about everywhere, and I am also not talking about wealthy gamblers either. So you can refrain from your "which universe" comments,

Do you think these owners will be putting up signs saying, "Only wealthy gamblers allowed in here"?

Well generally they will only let in those that are respectively dressed. That will exclude I suspect the less well off and those whom only fashion sense is T-shorts and shorts.

[JohninDublin]

1 minute ago, gummy said:

Well generally they will only let in those that are respectively dressed. That will exclude I suspect the less well off and those whom only fashion sense is T-shorts and shorts.

I am not too sure about the latter, as it is very-much the "uniform of the day, in TH. But how many of the "less well off", don't have access to a pair of jeans and a polo shirt? 

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, gummy said:

The best thing to get Pattaya on its feet and for it to be the no1 destination in SE Asia is to legalise Casinos for the City and let it become a "new Macau".

This could be a good thing but who will make the infrastructure? As you can see in Pattaya they doesn't know anything about city planning. They just build high rise buildings and after they realize ups I forgot the infrastructure for it like waste water management, floodwater management and oops many who live in such building have cars I forgot to make the street for it and oops there is no place for a street anymore and oops there is no place anymore for the rainwater, etc etc. Who shows them how to make a proper sidewalk and wiring without the poles fall on people or cars because of the tons of cables, etc etc. This are all things you need to make Pattaya to a Macau. I also would support to make Pattaya to Miami but you will need skilled competent people and not incompetent clowns and sure it would need time and money. There are possibilities if you have realistic people who knows what is needed to manage or develop it. Open minded and competent, the opposite we see at the moment.

[Poolie]

8 minutes ago, gummy said:

Well generally they will only let in those that are respectively dressed. That will exclude I suspect the less well off and those whom only fashion sense is T-shorts and shorts.

Pointless discussion. They havent given a single indication that they intend to legalise gambling. It's the farang pipedream. Another one.

[Stardust]

34 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Plenty of skilled people in Thailand, but most would not live in Pattaya unless it's cleaned up.

Wrong again as you not aware that in Chonbury and Rayong are the key industry is like automotive and the most multinational companies. And I know a lot who live in the Pattaya area because of many real estate and short distance. Many I know have condo or house in Bangkok and Chonbury. Interesting that you think you kniw something about Thailand but as I can see you dont know. Many of this leading companies have the their office buildings in Bangkok and Chonbury. As I see you have no knowledge about economy in Thailand and where the skilled one are working! Mitsubishi, Bmw, etc etc etc etc