News Forum - Alcohol ban predicted to damage Thailand’s reopening, reputation

[Stonker]

  On 10/29/2021 at 5:14 AM, NoshowJones said:

the average adult under the age of 60, who was no health issues, is not obese, is not a heavy drinker or smoker, is not going to die.

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Well, that's probably around A THIRD OF THE POPULATION here in Thailand!

In the States, where the stats are more easily available, it would be nearer to half and well over half if you included those over the age of 60.

[vlad]

Stonker don't start with the old show numbers to back up your statements as you know full well the figures are fudged. Only today The Dean of Faculty in Chiang Mai has said there at breaking point due to Covid patients filling ICU in hospitals with 380 new cases daily and new clusters are being discovered daily and that's in just 1 district.

[gummy]

  On 10/29/2021 at 5:52 AM, longwood50 said:

I nominate you gummy to be in charge of the alcohol policy in Thailand.  Can you also include it on the baht bus? 

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Too much spillage I think 

[Thommo]

  On 10/28/2021 at 2:52 PM, sangchai said:

I do drink alcohol but OK with the ban, didn't affect me.

Anyways alcohol is shit in Thailand: either buffalo pee Chang or cheap disgusting Australian wine.

Good imported alcohol sold in Tops / Gourmet, including some nice craft beers which you won't get in a restaurant.

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For someone who does not drink alcohol I am a bit bewildered how you are aware of the taste of Chang which is elephant not buffalo pee and cheap disgusting Australian wine.  Can you point me in the direction of the cheap oz wine as I've failed to find any here 

[Griff1315]

  On 10/28/2021 at 2:28 PM, JamesR said:

Lets see how you laugh in a few months time if the country does open up.

PS, most of the people dying from covid in the UK at the moment are unvaccinated, that is a stark warning for the masses of unvaccinated in Thailand. 

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Your forgetting something the vast number of unvaccinated in Thailand want a vaccine but have had no chance to get one. Only the elite areas of Bangkok, Phuket and now Chonburi (Pattaya) have had easy access to vaccines.

[Stonker]

  On 10/29/2021 at 5:48 AM, vlad said:

I personally know friends where i live who have brought there wives over from Thailand, they have bought test kits for family and sent them over. They were afraid there family members had not even been tested this was in the last few week's not Month's ago.

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@Vlad, I agree with you 100% as I did just now (#93241) that there's a shortage of tests here for those who want to be tested, but most of those who need to be tested are being, at least locally which is why I was curious about your reference to a lack of tests here in Issan; here, even those who don't want to be tested still are if there's considered to be a need, whereas in the UK it's entirely voluntary.

The UK's done more tests per capita than anyone else in the world - 4,762,015 per million, so an average of nearly five tests per person, while Thailand's only tested 212,951 so not five tests each but only one in five people.

But what's the point if you're not testing the right people?

What's the point if "Only a minority of people experiencing COVID-19 symptoms get a test ... between 18% and 33% of people who experience Covid-19 symptoms report getting a test" in the UK, which is unlikely to be any better than in Thailand and could very well be considerably worse?

What's the point in posting out hundreds of millions of free tests when "only 14% of 691 million lateral flow tests sent out had results reported"?

It's just $50 billion wasted, however good the number of tests carried out looks - and that's not just my view but that of the House of Commons Committee that looked into it who have access to all the facts.

[Stonker]

  On 10/29/2021 at 5:59 AM, vlad said:

Stonker don't start with the old show numbers to back up your statements as you know full well the figures are fudged. Only today The Dean of Faculty in Chiang Mai has said there at breaking point due to Covid patients filling ICU in hospitals with 380 new cases daily and new clusters are being discovered daily and that's in just 1 district.

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The only "numbers to back up your statements" I've given are THE UK'S NUMBERS over testing!!!

I agree with you absolutely that in some areas hospitals here are at breaking point, and that the number of cases is unlikely to be accurate here or anywhere near it.

I've said so repeatedly, constantly and consistently, even citing local numbers that aren't accurate, so I can't imagine why you suggest I'm trying to hide it when the complete opposite is true !

[longwood50]

  On 10/29/2021 at 5:53 AM, Bob20 said:

The alcohol ban alone is not going to solve the Covid problem. But together with masks, distancing, hygiene etc. it all contributes. Not just here, but we've seen it all over the world.

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The "statistics" just don't bear that out.  Notice Sweden.  No lockdown, no mask mandate, no quarantines, no ban on alcohol. 

Its rate of covid infection per million is less than the U.K., Serbia, Luxenberg, the Netherlands, and Belgium.  If those strict covid measures were at all effective, their rate of infection would be much lower and Sweden's would be the worst in the world which it is not. 

[Bob20]

  On 10/29/2021 at 6:35 AM, longwood50 said:

The "statistics" just don't bear that out.  Notice Sweden.  No lockdown, no mask mandate, no quarantines, no ban on alcohol. 

Its rate of covid infection per million is less than the U.K., Serbia, Luxenberg, the Netherlands, and Belgium.  If those strict covid measures were at all effective, their rate of infection would be much lower and Sweden's would be the worst in the world which it is not. 

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Well, we're not in Sweden.

The first 14 months of the pandemic Thailand outperformed, partially unexplained, most other countries. 

Statistics is used to study and manipulate data into numeric values. It doesn't "explain".

[Stonker]

  On 10/29/2021 at 6:06 AM, Jamey27 said:

You must have missed Melbourne then because it was on lockdown for 6 months and one of the harshest in the world.

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No, like the rest of it, I didn't "miss" it but Melbourne isn't "Australia" and neither is "Australia" Melbourne, and Melbourne actually had six lockdowns (43 days, 111 days, 5 days, 14 days, 12 days, and 82 days) so nearly nine months in total.

  On 10/29/2021 at 6:06 AM, Jamey27 said:

So again are you going to live in fear forever?

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"Again", I've told you twice already.

As I said blast time "As I said in reply, "everyone's living with it until they're properly vaccinated" which as I said later I think will be around Songkran next year."

I'm not "living in fear" as you put it, at least not for myself as I've been double vaccinated with Pfizer and will get a Moderna booster next year, and death doesn't worry me unduly, but I'm "in fear" for those around me, as they are for themselves and their loved ones.

I see nothing wrong with that, although apparently you do.

[billywillyjones]

  On 10/29/2021 at 6:46 AM, Bob20 said:

Well, we're not in Sweden.

The first 14 months of the pandemic Thailand outperformed, partially unexplained, most other countries. 

Statistics is used to study and manipulate data into numeric values. It doesn't "explain".

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Thailand didn't outperform anyone.  They simply weren't testing in any significant numbers.  I have always said test and you shall find.  What do you think all those Wuhan tourists were bringing to Thailand when everyone else had closed their borders?  Flowers?  lol

[Stonker]

  On 10/29/2021 at 6:06 AM, Jamey27 said:

How long are you going to wear a mask? 5 more years? Forever?

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At least as long as everyone else around me does, which will probably be until Songkran next year.

You may not agree or do so, but to me it would be way beyond disrespectful not to do so and to do as the community around me does.

[Stonker]

  On 10/29/2021 at 6:06 AM, Jamey27 said:

So you’re saying you and the “locals” are happy to live in isolation and fear and don’t mind the loss in income? I guess there’s a reason Thailand is a 3rd world country and places like America and Europe are pretty much back to normal while you live in abject terror… how proud your ancestors must be of you 

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No, that's not what I said so please don't repeatedly mis-represent what I've written.

What I've said is that "The only noticeable differences to life around me is that schools are closed, which everyone is tired of, everyone wears masks routinely, which no one gets upset about, and there are no tourists which has hit the local economy hard but everyone's living with it until they're properly vaccinated."

... and while the "loss in income" has hit everyone it's only short term and they can live with that rather than the alternative as the untimely loss of their loved ones would be forever.

They're no more "in isolation" than they were before and it's only natural for most people I've ever known to want to protect their community, their family, and their loved ones.

If you have no interest in protecting your community, your family and your loved ones and you think that would make your "ancestors"proud of you, then I'm relieved we come from a different gene pool.

[Stonker]

  On 10/29/2021 at 6:35 AM, longwood50 said:

The "statistics" just don't bear that out.  Notice Sweden.  No lockdown, no mask mandate, no quarantines, no ban on alcohol. 

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Actually the " "statistics" " do bear that out, emphatically, as long as you look at them objectively and compare like with like rather than ignoring all the other factors (social, geographical, economic, population density, health care etc) and compare it with similar countries.

Compare like with like, comparing Sweden to the other Scandanavian countries, and comparing  deaths per million,  Sweden is every bit as bad as would be expected:

Norway: 168 deaths per million

Finland:  208 deaths per million

Denmark:  465 deaths per million

Sweden: 1,460 deaths per million

Even comparing Covid cases per million, Sweden is still by far the worst:

Finland: 28,289 cases per million

Norway: 37,457 cases per million

Denmark: 66,315 cases per million

Sweden: 115,197 cases per million

.

Edit:

Sources:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104645/covid19-testing-rate-select-countries-worldwide/

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-and-daily-covid-cases-per-million?country=~OWID_WRL

[Stonker]

  On 10/29/2021 at 6:55 AM, billywillyjones said:

I have always said test and you shall find.

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It all depends on who you test.

If "Only a minority of people experiencing COVID-19 symptoms get a test ... between 18% and 33% of people who experience Covid-19 symptoms report getting a test"  and  "only 14% of 691 million lateral flow tests sent out had results reported" then it's more a case of 'test and you shall waste $50,000,000,000'.

[Saltire]

Some good news for the drinkers in 4 provinces.

[Stardust]

  On 10/28/2021 at 5:08 AM, Bob20 said:

All true, but missing the most important point.

Those carrying the virus, will sell you your food on a market, souvenir at an attraction or "clean" your hotel room.

BINGO!

And now the vaccinated tourist likely asymptomatically carries and spreads the virus too...

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Comon we have to live with the virus you cannot lockdown countries forever and it would be costs mor lives than the virus. For people who panic can lock themself forever in their rooms. If you have have clear mind you have to understand there are people with families who have to feed them, there are children who need food and schools. You want lock the children and damage their whole because some people are in panic?! Damage their mental health because of the selfish ones who panic about their life. People who are scared about they could die should lock themself anyway at home because the chance to die at an accident is much higher than to die from covid and sure not breath outside in Bangkok or Chiang Mai you would be surprised how much are dying every year i  Thailand because of air pollution. Thailand has the highest death rate on motorcycle accidents in the world so why we not discusd about to lockdown all roads in  Thailand? It seams covid creates more damage on the sense for common sense.

[vlad]

There's no point in mentioning what other Country's are doing or what has been done. Wer'e debating about Thailand's opening up of bar's and selling Alcohol. I would love to be sat on a beach now and as soon as it has eased and open to all I'll be on the plane. However Thailand is not yet ready to open fully until most have been inoculated with a double high quality Vaccine. I want to feel safe and not worry if i myself infect someone, we must stop worrying that we may catch covid and know it will not  effect my hard earned Holiday.

[gummy]

  On 10/29/2021 at 9:02 AM, vlad said:

There's no point in mentioning what other Country's are doing or what has been done. Wer'e debating about Thailand's opening up of bar's and selling Alcohol. I would love to be sat on a beach now and as soon as it has eased and open to all I'll be on the plane. However Thailand is not yet ready to open fully until most have been inoculated with a double high quality Vaccine. I want to feel safe and not worry if i myself infect someone, we must stop worrying that we may catch covid and know it will not  effect my hard earned Holiday.

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Yes sure is a bummer for you guys currently with the restrictions. I also worry that as there are 100,000s of Thais desperate for any income despite all the government protestations so the sooner normality returns the better.

[Benroon]

  On 10/28/2021 at 1:09 PM, DaveSimmons said:

Seriously - what is wrong with policy makers here? who wants to holiday to a place where you can't drink (assuming you do drink, which is the majority of people); by all accounts everywhere outside of Phuket is a dead ghost town. Do these morons in charge think they're going to get anywhere near the predicted numbers or tourists in??

Before anyone comments with 'go somewhere else then', that's the whole point - we will and it's ordinary Thais that will suffer.

I sometimes wonder what goes through the heads of politicians; totally out of touch. Idiots. 

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But that's the issue they're not politicians - they are clueless military personnel who thought how difficult can this be, now they're finding out as they wade through treacle !

[Benroon]

  On 10/28/2021 at 1:14 PM, DaveSimmons said:

Most people like a drink. A drink on the beach or with a meal does not make someone a barfly. Get off your high horse; you're in the small minority. 'High quality tourists'? have you heard yourself?? 

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Nor does sipping champagne from the small of Aom's back while she giggles suggestively counting her money - does it ? 

Each to their own

[gummy]

  On 10/29/2021 at 9:22 AM, Benroon said:

But that's the issue they're not politicians - they are clueless military personnel who thought how difficult can this be, now they're finding out as they wade through treacle !

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Well as in "Toby the Tank Engine" there is a controller so whilst these muppets or rather more aptly puppets carry on you have to think as to why and who wants Thailand taken back 3/400 years where foreigners arrived in boats to swap coloured beads for chillies from Mexico and then they would sail away.

[Benroon]

  On 10/28/2021 at 3:30 PM, JamesR said:

Buy some new glasses as all tourist bars sell European beer.

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I wish they did - maybe Heineken and a high proportion of that is fake. It's difficult in most bars to get past the usual protectionist crap of Chang/Leo/Singha - overgassed tasteless dross ! San Miguel is about as exotic as it gets in most bars.

I nearly cried when I got back to the UK and could finally get a pint of gorgeous Peroni or a decent Guinness. 

(I did find Peroni in a bkk bar couple of years ago at 230baht small bottle)

[Benroon]

  On 10/29/2021 at 9:29 AM, gummy said:

Well as in "Toby the Tank Engine" there is a controller so whilst these muppets or rather more aptly puppets carry on you have to think as to why and who wants Thailand taken back 3/400 years where foreigners arrived in boats to swap coloured beads for chillies from Mexico and then they would sail away.

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but who's controlling the controller as there's not a high level of IQ there either

[gummy]

  On 10/29/2021 at 9:40 AM, Benroon said:

but who's controlling the controller as there's not a high level of IQ there either

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That's always the problem with in-breeding perhaps