News Forum - Alcohol ban predicted to damage Thailand’s reopening, reputation

[Benroon]

5 hours ago, Stonker said:

As I've pointed out before, "testing" figures can have no possible relevance to "deaths" as they're completely unconnected, particularly as neither country includes deaths within 28 days of testing unless the deaths are Covid related.

As far as I'm aware, the figures of deaths in both countries are in line with hospitalisations and excess deaths which are the only valid guides, so I'd be very interested to see any figures that support what you've said.

I'd be very interested in your figures relating to deaths too, @vlad, if you have any that show that the number of deaths here isn't as "true" as the UK's.

I can see a clear connection between testing and deaths. If a country had a comprehensive testing regime which showed up a problem far greater than previously thought, then measures (lockdowns etc) would be put into place surely reducing deaths ? 

I listened to an enlightening radio programme yesterday about Covid in the UK. If you are diagnosed with Covid, then within 28 days go to get some shopping and get squashed by a bus, then your death is registered as 'due to Covid', - bizarrely if you are diagnosed with Covid and then 29 days later die of Covid you are NOT registered as died of 'Covid' in the figures ! 

Try and wade through that madness !

[Benroon]

8 minutes ago, gummy said:

That's always the problem with in-breeding perhaps

Spot on ! 

[Benroon]

5 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

You cannot compare these morons you mentioned to the many decent tourists who like a drink with their meals, or a social drink with their mates. So no! alcohol should not be banned, though I would have the ones that are drunk and incapable in public, fined and locked up for the night.

May I also point out that I am a life long non drinker.

So you have never experienced the head thumping, room spinning misery of a nightmare hangover where even blinking hurts, whilst puking into a bucket at the side of a bed wondering why you're wearing someone elses clothes ? ? Really ?

What kind of shallow life is that ??? 

[Stonker]

19 minutes ago, Benroon said:

I can see a clear connection between testing and deaths. If a country had a comprehensive testing regime which showed up a problem far greater than previously thought, then measures (lockdowns etc) would be put into place surely reducing deaths ?

Agreed absolutely, @Benroon, but I'm talking about the stats - for any number of reasons the number of tests may not reflect the number of deaths and vice-versa as there are just too many other factors at play.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, vlad said:

There's no point in mentioning what other Country's are doing or what has been done.

Well, if there are lessons to be learnt one way or the other I think it may help!

[Poolie]

21 minutes ago, Benroon said:

So you have never experienced the head thumping, room spinning misery of a nightmare hangover where even blinking hurts, whilst puking into a bucket at the side of a bed wondering why you're wearing someone elses clothes ? ? Really ?

What kind of shallow life is that ??? 

I would call it a cracking night out. Particularly if you've no idea where you woke up.

[longwood50]

6 hours ago, Stonker said:

Actually the " "statistics" " do bear that out, emphatically, as long as you look at them objectively and compare like with like rather than ignoring all the other factors (social, geographical, economic, population density, health care etc) and compare it with similar countries.

Why does it not surprise me that you are the person to make a statement like that.  I am not sure where you get your predisposition to jump to conclusions and make off the wall assertions but I do admire your commitment to it.  You remind me of the person who conducted an experiment pulling the wings off a fly and then upon clapping their hands close to the fly saw that the fly did not fly away.  They then concluded that pulling the wings off the fly caused the fly to lose its hearing.  Yep, a correlation but not a causation. 

I terms of statistics, as said, and repeated,  Sweden does have a higher covid infection rate than Norway, Denmark, or Finland.  However it has a lower covid rate than Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.  PS. If you bothered to look at a map those countries are geographically as close to Denmark and Finland as Sweden with Estonia being markedly closer to Finland only 86 KM away.  Or are you making the preposterous assertion that because those countries are not Scandinavian they don't count. 

Taking Sweden out of the discussion, but Amsterdam is 633 km from Copenhagen compared to 627 KM from Amsterdam. Yet the Netherlands rate of Covid infection is much higher than Swedens.  Even Brussels is only 793 km and London 915 km distant from Copenhagen and both Belgium and the UK have higher rates of covid infection per million than Sweden.  Or do those masks, quarantines, social distancing and lock downs only work in Scandinavian countries and therefore you can't use them to compare to Sweden. 

If it is similar ethnic and distance that you jump to the conclusion makes a difference, I am including a map of the NE United States.  Perhaps in your infinite wisdom you can explain how New York can have a covid rate of infection more than double Vermont a state it connects with.  Or how sparsely populated West Virginia has a rate 33% higher than neighboring state Virginia.  And of course one final answer that I am sure you can make up an answer to is how Washington D.C. the most densely populated area, with a black population more shown to be more prone to covid infection has a rate 40% higher than neighboring Delaware. 

Your assertion that somehow Sweden's rate of Covid infection being higher is due to their lax covid restrictions.  That is an a conclusion using the GOTTA method.  Grabbed out of thin air.  If any of those measures were significantly effective, ALL OF THE COUNTRIES of Europe would have lower covid infection rates than Sweden and THEY DON'T. 

All that can be stated with any certainty is that Sweden is the only country that chose not to do extensive social distancing, quarantines, lockdowns, alcohol bans etc and that it rate of infection is 115,051 per million.  Out of 47 EU countries Sweden ranks 15th in terms of its infection rate and countries including the U.K., Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxenburg all of whom imposed the most severe covid measures HAVE RATES OF INFECTION HIGHER than Sweden. 

Why?  who knows but certainly the fact that their rates of infection being higher blows a hole in any theory that somehow masks, quarantines, social distancing, and lock downs were effective.  The fact that you have adjoining EU countries with identical covid prevention measures but differing rates of infection blows a hole in any assertion that Sweden's rate of infection being higher than Norway, Denmark, or Finland is due to its less rigid covid measures.  The fact that countries as close to Sweden also using the same EU protocols such as Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania have higher rates of infection than Sweden is further evidence that the EU measures were of little to no effect.  The same is true in the USA where you have states bordering each other with hugely different covid infection rates. 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Smithydog
Number of Images posted exceeds Forum Guidelines for a single post. Last Image shown deleted.

[gummy]

1 minute ago, longwood50 said:

Why does it not surprise me that you are the person to make a statement like that.  I am not sure where you get your predisposition to jump to conclusions and make off the wall assertions but I do admire your commitment to it. 

I terms of statistics, as said, and repeated,  Sweden does have a higher covid infection rate than Norway, Denmark, or Finland.  However it has a lower covid rate than Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.  PS. If you bothered to look at a map those countries are geographically as close to Denmark and Finland as Sweden with Estonia being markedly closer to Finland only 86 KM away.  Or are you making the preposterous assertion that because those countries are not Scandinavian they don't count. 

Taking Sweden out of the discussion, but Amsterdam is 633 km from Copenhagen compared to 627 KM from Amsterdam. Yet the Netherlands rate of Covid infection is much higher than Swedens.  Even Brussels is only 793 km and London 915 km distant from Copenhagen and both Belgium and the UK have higher rates of covid infection per million than Sweden.  Or do those masks, quarantines, social distancing and lock downs only work in Scandinavian countries and therefore you can't use them to compare to Sweden. 

If it is similar ethnic and distance that you jump to the conclusion makes a difference, I am including a map of the NE United States.  Perhaps in your infinite wisdom you can explain how New York can have a covid rate of infection more than double Vermont a state it connects with.  Or how sparsely populated West Virginia has a rate 33% higher than neighboring state Virginia.  And of course one final answer that I am sure you can make up an answer to is how Washington D.C. the most densely populated area, with a black population more shown to be more prone to covid infection has a rate 40% higher than neighboring Delaware. 

Your assertion that somehow Sweden's rate of Covid infection being higher is due to their lax covid restrictions.  That is an a conclusion using the GOTTA method.  Grabbed out of thin air.  If any of those measures were significantly effective, ALL OF THE COUNTRIES of Europe would have lower covid infection rates than Sweden and THEY DON'T. 

All that can be stated with any certainty is that Sweden is the only country that chose not to do extensive social distancing, quarantines, lockdowns, alcohol bans etc and that it rate of infection is 115,051 per million.  Out of 47 EU countries Sweden ranks 15th in terms of its infection rate and countries including the U.K., Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxenburg all of whom imposed the most severe covid measures HAVE RATES OF INFECTION HIGHER than Sweden. 

Why?  who knows but certainly the fact that their rates of infection being higher blows a hole in any theory that somehow masks, quarantines, social distancing, and lock downs were effective.  The fact that you have adjoining EU countries with identical covid prevention measures but differing rates of infection blows a hole in any assertion that Sweden's rate of infection being higher than Norway, Denmark, or Finland is due to its less rigid covid measures.  The fact that countries as close to Sweden also using the same EU protocols such as Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania have higher rates of infection than Sweden is further evidence that the EU measures were of little to no effect.  The same is true in the USA where you have states bordering each other with hugely different covid infection rates. 

What on earth has this to do with Thailand and the alcohol ban ?

[longwood50]

5 minutes ago, gummy said:

What on earth has this to do with Thailand and the alcohol ban ?

Oh Stonker took umbrage when I said there was no such covid measures including an alcohol ban in Sweden and he stated that Sweden's covid rate was higher do to lax covid enforcement and pointed to only Denmark, Finland, and Norway as proof. 

[gummy]

Just now, longwood50 said:

Oh Stonker took umbrage when I said there was no such covid measures including an alcohol ban in Sweden and he stated that Sweden's covid rate was higher do to lax covid enforcement and pointed to only Denmark, Finland, and Norway as proof. 

So it is completely off topic then 

[RobMuir]

14 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

further evidence that the EU measures were of little to no effect.  The same is true in the USA

Yes, the Thais did a heaps better job than all of them Ai farangers. Anutin predicted that would happen way back in March last year.

Thankyou Thailand 

[Smithydog]

Members,

I remember seeing Haley's Comet. One could feel it almost came closer to Earth than some of the posts are starting to get in their association  to the Topic!

Move the discussion back please.

Moderator

[Stonker]

31 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

Why does it not surprise me that you are the person to make a statement like that.  I am not sure where you get your predisposition to jump to conclusions and make off the wall assertions but I do admire your commitment to it.  You remind me of the person who conducted an experiment pulling the wings off a fly and then upon clapping their hands close to the fly saw that the fly did not fly away.  They then concluded that pulling the wings off the fly caused the fly to lose its hearing.  Yep, a correlation but not a causation. 

I terms of statistics, as said, and repeated,  Sweden does have a higher covid infection rate than Norway, Denmark, or Finland.  However it has a lower covid rate than Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.  PS. If you bothered to look at a map those countries are geographically as close to Denmark and Finland as Sweden with Estonia being markedly closer to Finland only 86 KM away.  Or are you making the preposterous assertion that because those countries are not Scandinavian they don't count. 

Taking Sweden out of the discussion, but Amsterdam is 633 km from Copenhagen compared to 627 KM from Amsterdam. Yet the Netherlands rate of Covid infection is much higher than Swedens.  Even Brussels is only 793 km and London 915 km distant from Copenhagen and both Belgium and the UK have higher rates of covid infection per million than Sweden.  Or do those masks, quarantines, social distancing and lock downs only work in Scandinavian countries and therefore you can't use them to compare to Sweden. 

If it is similar ethnic and distance that you jump to the conclusion makes a difference, I am including a map of the NE United States.  Perhaps in your infinite wisdom you can explain how New York can have a covid rate of infection more than double Vermont a state it connects with.  Or how sparsely populated West Virginia has a rate 33% higher than neighboring state Virginia.  And of course one final answer that I am sure you can make up an answer to is how Washington D.C. the most densely populated area, with a black population more shown to be more prone to covid infection has a rate 40% higher than neighboring Delaware. 

Your assertion that somehow Sweden's rate of Covid infection being higher is due to their lax covid restrictions.  That is an a conclusion using the GOTTA method.  Grabbed out of thin air.  If any of those measures were significantly effective, ALL OF THE COUNTRIES of Europe would have lower covid infection rates than Sweden and THEY DON'T. 

All that can be stated with any certainty is that Sweden is the only country that chose not to do extensive social distancing, quarantines, lockdowns, alcohol bans etc and that it rate of infection is 115,051 per million.  Out of 47 EU countries Sweden ranks 15th in terms of its infection rate and countries including the U.K., Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxenburg all of whom imposed the most severe covid measures HAVE RATES OF INFECTION HIGHER than Sweden. 

Why?  who knows but certainly the fact that their rates of infection being higher blows a hole in any theory that somehow masks, quarantines, social distancing, and lock downs were effective.  The fact that you have adjoining EU countries with identical covid prevention measures but differing rates of infection blows a hole in any assertion that Sweden's rate of infection being higher than Norway, Denmark, or Finland is due to its less rigid covid measures.  The fact that countries as close to Sweden also using the same EU protocols such as Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania have higher rates of infection than Sweden is further evidence that the EU measures were of little to no effect.  The same is true in the USA where you have states bordering each other with hugely different covid infection rates. 

I compared Sweden to the other Scandanavian countries because they're the countries that are the most directly comparable, with the least differences in terms of other factors and variables such as  population density, cultural behaviour, etc.

If you can't see that and prefer to ignore it and compare Sweden to other countries with no similarities such as "the U.K., Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxenburg " then I can't be bothered to even start trying to explain it to you.

Edit:

apologies, @Smithydog, I posted at the same time as your instruction and I accept 100% that it's off-topic

[vlad]

4 hours ago, Stonker said:

Well, if there are lessons to be learnt one way or the other I think it may help!

Thing is though Stonker the Thai government ignored all help offered, or looked or Bothered  looking at how other Country's Pandemic efforts. It was the the old "we know better" they should have copied other country's efforts at the start. There paying the price now, Rumor has it the Thai PM is coming to the climate summit in Glasgow and will ask other governments to Donate vaccines  ? whats he going to say when some other heads say hang on your spending millions for 2 performers and a lavish bash, how do you expect us to donate when your paying out for this ? Give your head a wobble lol. 

[Stardust]

16 hours ago, gummy said:

Yes sure is a bummer for you guys currently with the restrictions. I also worry that as there are 100,000s of Thais desperate for any income despite all the government protestations so the sooner normality returns the better.

And with their structure of economy, highest private houshold debts in Asia, yearly state household deficts they brought it to an huge liquidity problem in the country that they have no other choice or their economy collapse. They have only the tourism and foreign investment to compensate the liquidity. If the private housholds have debts of 98% this money is gone and plus state housholds deficit yearly you are f....up. But sure they will never talk about because they never tell the truth how the destroyed the economy since they in charge and just because they are even too stupid for a cleaning job but think they should be in charge. Anyway the numbers are out there but I am not sure many understand the numbers or that exactly the same problem crashed them 97 caused by the same incompetent clowns. It seams this clowns who made coups and destroyed the economies after are the evil circle of Thailand. And wondering how often can happen the same even the history showed it destroyed and damaged the country and always by the same Clowns. And one thing is to mention it was Thaksin who brought them out of this complety economic disaster and bankruptcy. And handled the debts the clowns made and handled the imf. The clowns know only obe thing living on debt and make more debts and fill their pockets, exactly every time it is the same procedure.

[gummy]

39 minutes ago, Stardust said:

And with their structure of economy, highest private houshold debts in Asia, yearly state household deficts they brought it to an huge liquidity problem in the country that they have no other choice or their economy collapse. They have only the tourism and foreign investment to compensate the liquidity. If the private housholds have debts of 98% this money is gone and plus state housholds deficit yearly you are f....up. But sure they will never talk about because they never tell the truth how the destroyed the economy since they in charge and just because they are even too stupid for a cleaning job but think they should be in charge. Anyway the numbers are out there but I am not sure many understand the numbers or that exactly the same problem crashed them 97 caused by the same incompetent clowns. It seams this clowns who made coups and destroyed the economies after are the evil circle of Thailand. And wondering how often can happen the same even the history showed it destroyed and damaged the country and always by the same Clowns. And one thing is to mention it was Thaksin who brought them out of this complety economic disaster and bankruptcy. And handled the debts the clowns made and handled the imf. The clowns know only obe thing living on debt and make more debts and fill their pockets, exactly every time it is the same procedure.

Yes and it was under the astute economic policies of Thaksin that the borrowing from the IMF were repaid early. I understand that is the first and still only the country to do so. I think it is fair to say that had the militry clowns not been ordered to get rid of Thaksin then this country would be in a very strong position by now and he would have moved heaven and earth early 2020 to ensure there were enough vaccines for all of the nation, not just the elite, to have received double doses over a year ago so we would not be even discussing the issue of this ongoing alcohol ban as the country would have been opened fully and safely by now.  Those 100,000s that the current military clowns and their master  have made destitute would by now be almost back to normal.

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, Jamey27 said:

So you’re saying people are ok having no money, food or basic necessities for life? Something tells me you’re just making this up. This virus has a 99.8% worldwide survival rate, what are you people so scared of?  <deleted abusive content>

Again, 'no', that's not what I'm saying. There's little point in my repeating what I've said if you're incapable of basic comprehension.

... and I'm clearly not "making this up" as I've posted photos of the signs the locals have put up saying that they're closed to tourists, here and in other threads.

If you're also incapable of understanding that the direct effects of the virus aren't just "surviving" or dying after it's been around for nearly two years, but it means people being unable to work and having to be cared for, short and long term, then clearly you prefer to live in ignorance, with no concern for others as long as you can have your holiday.

[BigHewer]

Topic locked for review.

[BigHewer]

 

An off-topic post has been removed.
The topic of this thread is “Alcohol ban predicted to damage Thailand’s reopening, reputation”. A previous request from a moderator has been made to stay on topic. 

Any further off-topic posting will not be tolerated. Members are advised once again to stay on topic.

Thanks,

Moderator

 

[billywillyjones]

On 10/29/2021 at 2:47 PM, Stonker said:

It all depends on who you test.

If "Only a minority of people experiencing COVID-19 symptoms get a test ... between 18% and 33% of people who experience Covid-19 symptoms report getting a test"  and  "only 14% of 691 million lateral flow tests sent out had results reported" then it's more a case of 'test and you shall waste $50,000,000,000'.

yes many asymptomatic this has been around for a long time it just wasn't detected often intentionally I believe

[vlad]

Stonker who's fault is it people are unable to work and struggling financially ? You seem to want to put the blame on Tourists for wanting a holiday. There's only one to blame for there woe's. If the PM acted quickly and procured the correct vaccine last year tourists would be flocking in and most of the entertainment industry would be sustainable. So stop blaming people for wanting a holiday.

[Bob20]

2 minutes ago, vlad said:

Stonker who's fault is it people are unable to work and struggling financially ? You seem to want to put the blame on Tourists for wanting a holiday. There's only one to blame for there woe's. If the PM acted quickly and procured the correct vaccine last year tourists would be flocking in and most of the entertainment industry would be sustainable. So stop blaming people for wanting a holiday.

Vlad, being allowed to travel doesn't mean you have to.

We live in a country where not even half the population is protected by the vaccine and you don't need anyone to tell you or allow you to do something that could put others in harm's way.

If you're clever enough to know it's wrong and blame the PM for it, you can be clever enough not to follow his advice as well!

The ones who are fully vaccinated are lucky and they ought to have some consideration for others. If instead they had been last in line for a jab, they would surely expect the same!

[LoongFred]

On 10/29/2021 at 4:37 PM, Benroon said:

I wish they did - maybe Heineken and a high proportion of that is fake. It's difficult in most bars to get past the usual protectionist crap of Chang/Leo/Singha - overgassed tasteless dross ! San Miguel is about as exotic as it gets in most bars.

I nearly cried when I got back to the UK and could finally get a pint of gorgeous Peroni or a decent Guinness. 

(I did find Peroni in a bkk bar couple of years ago at 230baht small bottle)

Sounds like serious drinkers need to stay in the UK. 

[LoongFred]

On 10/29/2021 at 4:37 PM, Benroon said:

I wish they did - maybe Heineken and a high proportion of that is fake. It's difficult in most bars to get past the usual protectionist crap of Chang/Leo/Singha - overgassed tasteless dross ! San Miguel is about as exotic as it gets in most bars.

I nearly cried when I got back to the UK and could finally get a pint of gorgeous Peroni or a decent Guinness. 

(I did find Peroni in a bkk bar couple of years ago at 230baht small bottle)

James R probably goes  to high end places. 

[LoongFred]

On 10/29/2021 at 4:37 PM, Benroon said:

I wish they did - maybe Heineken and a high proportion of that is fake. It's difficult in most bars to get past the usual protectionist crap of Chang/Leo/Singha - overgassed tasteless dross ! San Miguel is about as exotic as it gets in most bars.

I nearly cried when I got back to the UK and could finally get a pint of gorgeous Peroni or a decent Guinness. 

(I did find Peroni in a bkk bar couple of years ago at 230baht small bottle)

Sounds like serious drinkers need to stay in the UK.