News Forum - Alcohol ban predicted to damage Thailand’s reopening, reputation

[vlad]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

The statement of deaths mainly occurring amongst unvaccinated is correct.

And the fact that there's a low vaccination rate in Thailand while the government is opening up the country is what I've been warning for ever since they announced it (far too early).

Fortunately it appears that they are announcing things, whilst at the same time making it so unappealing to come here that the opening is mainly in name and the actual large inflow won't happen just yet. 

I do expect that when it eventually does happen, it will still be too early.

But in true Thai style, they'll find someone else to blame.

In one Bob they will never hold there hands up and say we're sorry  or we made a mistake. They will blame the Tourists or a junior admin officer who cant defend him pr herself like a Martyr for the top Brass in charge.  

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, vlad said:

In one Bob they will never hold there hands up and say we're sorry  or we made a mistake. They will blame the Tourists or a junior admin officer who cant defend him pr herself like a Martyr for the top Brass in charge.  

yup, agreed

[JamesR]

20 minutes ago, vlad said:

In one Bob they will never hold there hands up and say we're sorry  or we made a mistake. They will blame the Tourists or a junior admin officer who cant defend him pr herself like a Martyr for the top Brass in charge.  

No @vlad they will just blame you. 

[JamesR]

9 hours ago, Smithydog said:

Several posts have been amended as members have used disparaging or derogatory remarks against other members.

Watch your emotions when posting and maintain a civil debate.

Moderator

In other words do this

Do not comment when you are in any of these states

 

[Bob20]

8 minutes ago, JamesR said:

No @vlad they will just blame you. 

That's fine too

[Stonker]

10 hours ago, vlad said:

We have gone through lockdowns, entertainment venues, shops, all closed until we were safe to open up its not perfect ...

How can it have  been "safe to open up" in the UK?

There are three times as many people dying every day now than are dying in Thailand.

Twice as many as were dying back in April, and as many as were dying in March, and there are more hospital admissions from Covid now than there were in February.

... and yes, the vast majority of those are unvaccinated, maybe as many as 95%+, but the UK still has twice as many fully vaccinated as Thailand and with better vaccines.

What Thailand has to learn from the UK isn't that good  vaccines work, as pretty much everyone knows that.

What it has to learn is that if you open up and take off the restrictions  too soon, as the UK has done, then the numbers dying and being hospitalised will spiral and there'll be no option but to revert to Plan B or Plan C and to re-introduce all the restrictions you've just lifted as 70% vaccinated isn't good enough.

 

[JamesR]

35 minutes ago, Stonker said:

How can it have  been "safe to open up" in the UK?

There are three times as many people dying every day now than are dying in Thailand.

Twice as many as were dying back in April, and as many as were dying in March, and there are more hospital admissions from Covid now than there were in February.

... and yes, the vast majority of those are unvaccinated, maybe as many as 95%+, but the UK still has twice as many fully vaccinated as Thailand and with better vaccines.

What Thailand has to learn from the UK isn't that good  vaccines work, as pretty much everyone knows that.

What it has to learn is that if you open up and take off the restrictions  too soon, as the UK has done, then the numbers dying and being hospitalised will spiral and there'll be no option but to revert to Plan B or Plan C and to re-introduce all the restrictions you've just lifted as 70% vaccinated isn't good enough.

We don't mind if the majority of people dying in the UK due to covid are unvaccinated by choice when they could out of choice have the vaccine.

Plus you can not compare the rates of infection or deaths between the UK to Thailand as Thailand is not doing many tests.

If you do not test you do not know, this applies to software, engineering, many other things and the virus. 

 

 

[vlad]

That's why all the figures and numbers cannot be relied on as true figures in Thailand. this time last year testing was hardly done and even today testing is very slow especially in rural areas up in Issan so I don't believe there numbers Stonker lets see the true numbers were 70-80% are tested then compare your numbers to the uk. like JamesR says low test numbers = less infections.

[JamesR]

6 minutes ago, vlad said:

That's why all the figures and numbers cannot be relied on as true figures in Thailand. this time last year testing was hardly done and even today testing is very slow especially in rural areas up in Issan so I don't believe there numbers Stonker lets see the true numbers were 70-80% are tested then compare your numbers to the uk. like JamesR says low test numbers = less infections.

On a funny note and this is not to be taken seriously, the number of cars/motorbikes I am behind while driving in Thailand who do not check to see if their rear lights are working is quite high as I see many with one or both lights 'out', so this must be reflected in the amount of covid tests done :)

Also here in the UK you can order testing kits which are posted to you for free, we can test ourselves on a weekly basis to see how we are.

[Lowseasonlover]

8 hours ago, sangchai said:

I do drink alcohol but OK with the ban, didn't affect me.

Anyways alcohol is shit in Thailand: either buffalo pee Chang or cheap disgusting Australian wine.

Good imported alcohol sold in Tops / Gourmet, including some nice craft beers which you won't get in a restaurant.

Where I live a few places do sell imported beers 

[gummy]

4 minutes ago, Lowseasonlover said:

Good imported alcohol sold in Tops / Gourmet, including some nice craft beers which

Strange that because some of the well to do locals insist that it is the only stuff that get their toilets clean properly 

[Stonker]

9 hours ago, JamesR said:

We don't mind if the majority of people dying in the UK due to covid are unvaccinated by choice when they could out of choice have the vaccine.

With all due respect, I don't think you're in any position to say "we don't mind" if people die who have chosen not to be vaccinated. While that may be your view, you're in no position to speak for anyone else.

Not only is it their right to make that choice, but as well as for religious or other reasons they may be unable to be vaccinated for valid medical reasons also.

The "we don't mind" argument is also rather short-sighted at best as not only does it ignore the economic and social effects of the one third of the UK's population being potentially affected by Covid as they're unvaccinated, but it ignores the affect on the NHS.

As a direct result of the numbers with Covid-19, with ten times more Covid patients than a year ago, delays for  everybody for treatment, whether vaccinated or not, for   everything as nearly six million are facing record delays due to the number being treated for Covid:

Over 325,000 have been waiting more than six weeks for basic diagnostic tests, when pre-pandemic it was a tenth of that number.

Over 1.2 million have been waiting over six months and well over 300,000 have been waiting more than a year to start treatment, including for cataract surgery and hip and knee replacements when even in mid 2020 when the pandemic was far worse less than a fifth of that number had to wait for more than six months and less than a third had to wait for more than a year, with some having to wait as long as five years for routine, basic treatment.

Don't you "mind" about them either?

All that could have been avoided had more people been persuaded to be vaccinated as happened in Portugal where 95% have been vaccinated rather than the UK's less than 70%, or if control measures had been continued as they have in the rest of western Europe.

Thailand needs to learn the lessons from other countries' mistakes and to avoid making the same ones, and the UK's are the most glaring mistakes.

Removing alcohol restrictions to avoid "damaging Thailand's reopening" needs to be balanced against the risk of "damaging" everything else, from its health service to its people.

 

 

[NoshowJones]

On 10/27/2021 at 9:17 PM, yetanother said:

"They advise that the nightlife that millions flocked to Thailand for before the Covid-19 pandemic, is being destroyed by the long-term closures"

you put extremely narrow-minded military generals in charge of a third world country and this is where things get headed

"you put extremely narrow-minded military generals in charge of a third world country and this is where things get headed"

Who put them in?? They put themselves in, and turned this country into a Banana Republic.

[Stonker]

9 hours ago, JamesR said:

Plus you can not compare the rates of infection or deaths between the UK to Thailand as Thailand is not doing many tests.

As I've pointed out before, "testing" figures can have no possible relevance to "deaths" as they're completely unconnected, particularly as neither country includes deaths within 28 days of testing unless the deaths are Covid related.

As far as I'm aware, the figures of deaths in both countries are in line with hospitalisations and excess deaths which are the only valid guides, so I'd be very interested to see any figures that support what you've said.

7 hours ago, vlad said:

That's why all the figures and numbers cannot be relied on as true figures in Thailand.

I'd be very interested in your figures relating to deaths too, @vlad, if you have any that show that the number of deaths here isn't as "true" as the UK's.

[NoshowJones]

On 10/27/2021 at 11:41 PM, Gieza said:

Keep the alcohol ban!

Alcohol is responsible for more deaths and misery than Covid, while the sale of cheap booze in Thailand attracts the scum of the earth which brings associated crime.

Many high spending tourists avoid Thailand because of the unshirted tattooed hordes’ embarrassing behavior at Pattaya, Phuket and Khao San Road. Let’s get rid of them and use this opportunity to up our game in Thailand.

You cannot compare these morons you mentioned to the many decent tourists who like a drink with their meals, or a social drink with their mates. So no! alcohol should not be banned, though I would have the ones that are drunk and incapable in public, fined and locked up for the night.

May I also point out that I am a life long non drinker.

[Stonker]

7 hours ago, vlad said:

(snip) ... even today testing is very slow especially in rural areas up in Issan so I don't believe there numbers ... (snip)

As I live in one of the "rural areas up in Issan" I'd be very interested to know where you're talking about and what it's based on, since in my district we had three positive cases yesterday and a couple a few days ago which seems about right.

[Stonker]

8 hours ago, vlad said:

Stonker lets see the true numbers were 70-80% are tested then compare your numbers to the uk. like JamesR says low test numbers = less infections.

 

I agree absolutely that testing here isn't adequate as it's concentrated only on those who need to be tested rather than those who want to be, but in UK the system is little better as it's the reverse: those who want to be tested rather than those who need to be.

Consequently while the UK's testing two or three times more than virtually anyone else in Europe, and has more vaccinated than most, it's still in a far worse position with Covid than any other country in western Europe.

While the figures look very impressive on the surface, the reality according to the recent report from the House of Commons Committee on it is that despite having a budget of some $50 billion it's been a complete failure and "has not achieved its main objective to help break chains of Covid-19 transmission and enable people to return towards a more normal way of life".

The UK has simply been testing the wrong people, and that isn't so much my view but that of the report from the House of Commons Committee, who should probably know:

"Only a minority of people experiencing COVID-19 symptoms get a test ... between 18% and 33% of people who experience Covid-19 symptoms report getting a test".

Thailand needs to test more, certainly, but it needs to learn from the UK's continued mistakes and to test those who need it, not just those who want it.

 

[Stonker]

8 hours ago, JamesR said:

Also here in the UK you can order testing kits which are posted to you for free, we can test ourselves on a weekly basis to see how we are.

Indeed you can, @JamesR, but according to Meg Hillier, the chair of the House of Commons PAC Committee looking into Test and Trace who's probably in a good position to know, it was a waste of time and money sending out the vast majority of them (86%), as "only 14% of 691 million lateral flow tests sent out had results reported".

Hundreds of millions of "tests" which looks seriously impressive, until you learn that 86% of the results aren't known.

As you yourself correctly said "if you do not test you do not know" - well, if you don't get the results for 86% of the tests you "do not know" either !

[NoshowJones]

On 10/28/2021 at 6:19 AM, Stonker said:

EXACTLY - setting back the possibility of any sort of recovery by months if not years just as has happened in so many other countries that opened up and loosened restrictions too soon.

A questionable short term gain, in return for a probable massive long term loss.

I don't see how it can be any worse than it is now, the cure has always been worse than the disease. the average adult under the age of 60, who was no health issues, is not obese, is not a heavy drinker or smoker, is not going to die.

If he/she gets the Chinese virus, they will probably recover in three or four weeks, of course there will always be the odd exception.

[longwood50]

While drinking alcohol may not be a requirement for some tourists it will be for others.  Even if only 1 member of the family wants to enjoy an alcoholic beverage with their meal it will likely cause the trip for the entire group to be cancelled. 

This nonsense about alcohol and Covid is just ludicrous.  Consider for yourself.  Would you if you were forced to choose want to sit next to 100 people at a restaurant with drinks being served, or sitting on a BTS train next to 100 people crowded like sardine. 

This is particularly true if it is like most dining venues, open air dining. 

[gummy]

2 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

While drinking alcohol may not be a requirement for some tourists it will be for others.  Even if only 1 member of the family wants to enjoy an alcoholic beverage with their meal it will likely cause the trip for the entire group to be cancelled. 

This nonsense about alcohol and Covid is just ludicrous.  Consider for yourself.  Would you if you were forced to choose want to sit next to 100 people at a restaurant with drinks being served, or sitting on a BTS train next to 100 people crowded like sardine. 

This is particularly true if it is like most dining venues, open air dining. 

Of course the real issue is compromise. Now if they served meals with alcohol on the BTS tourists would come flocking in, a win-win for all

[Stonker]

51 minutes ago, Jamey27 said:

I guess you missed the total lock down of Ho Chi Minh a few weeks ago or the 6 month total lockdown of Australia…

No, I didn't "miss" them, but I was talking about "life around me" where "the only noticeable differences to life around me is that schools are closed, which everyone is tired of, everyone wears masks routinely, which no one gets upset about, and there are no tourists which has hit the local economy hard but everyone's living with it until they're properly vaccinated."

There was no  "6 month total lockdown of Australia" - that's not correct.  There was a "lock out" (and a "lock in"), which is very different, and it wasn't "total".

57 minutes ago, Jamey27 said:

...so again how much longer are you going to want to live like this? 2 more years? 10? 20? For the rest of your life??

As I said in reply, "everyone's living with it until they're properly vaccinated" which as I said later I think will be around Songkran next year.

Here, where I live, there would normally be a constant flow of tour buses going past at this time of year as in high season there'd be a dozen or more past every hour but there hasn't been one for months - literally none.

That's not because anything else has changed, but because when they come it's closed - and the locals are not only happy to "live like this" despite the loss of income but they've chosen to "live like this".

 

[vlad]

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

With all due respect, I don't think you're in any position to say "we don't mind" if people die who have chosen not to be vaccinated. While that may be your view, you're in no position to speak for anyone else.

Not only is it their right to make that choice, but as well as for religious or other reasons they may be unable to be vaccinated for valid medical reasons also.

The "we don't mind" argument is also rather short-sighted at best as not only does it ignore the economic and social effects of the one third of the UK's population being potentially affected by Covid as they're unvaccinated, but it ignores the affect on the NHS.

As a direct result of the numbers with Covid-19, with ten times more Covid patients than a year ago, delays for  everybody for treatment, whether vaccinated or not, for   everything as nearly six million are facing record delays due to the number being treated for Covid:

Over 325,000 have been waiting more than six weeks for basic diagnostic tests, when pre-pandemic it was a tenth of that number.

Over 1.2 million have been waiting over six months and well over 300,000 have been waiting more than a year to start treatment, including for cataract surgery and hip and knee replacements when even in mid 2020 when the pandemic was far worse less than a fifth of that number had to wait for more than six months and less than a third had to wait for more than a year, with some having to wait as long as five years for routine, basic treatment.

Don't you "mind" about them either?

All that could have been avoided had more people been persuaded to be vaccinated as happened in Portugal where 95% have been vaccinated rather than the UK's less than 70%, or if control measures had been continued as they have in the rest of western Europe.

Thailand needs to learn the lessons from other countries' mistakes and to avoid making the same ones, and the UK's are the most glaring mistakes.

Removing alcohol restrictions to avoid "damaging Thailand's reopening" needs to be balanced against the risk of "damaging" everything else, from its health service to its people.

I personally know friends where i live who have brought there wives over from Thailand, they have bought test kits for family and sent them over. They were afraid there family members had not even been tested this was in the last few week's not Month's ago.

[longwood50]

12 minutes ago, gummy said:

Of course the real issue is compromise. Now if they served meals with alcohol on the BTS tourists would come flocking in, a win-win for all

I nominate you gummy to be in charge of the alcohol policy in Thailand.  Can you also include it on the baht bus? 

[Bob20]

3 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

While drinking alcohol may not be a requirement for some tourists it will be for others.  Even if only 1 member of the family wants to enjoy an alcoholic beverage with their meal it will likely cause the trip for the entire group to be cancelled. 

This nonsense about alcohol and Covid is just ludicrous.  Consider for yourself.  Would you if you were forced to choose want to sit next to 100 people at a restaurant with drinks being served, or sitting on a BTS train next to 100 people crowded like sardine. 

This is particularly true if it is like most dining venues, open air dining. 

Along the same lines (although nothing to do with Covid): Whilst some people like Thai food, others will not like it. This may cause the whole family trip to Thailand to be cancelled.

So what? People have a choice.

And before you say "you can eat other food in Thailand too", you can have a drink in your hotelroom too. 

Don't go to Madrid if you want a beach holiday and don't go to Las Vegas for skiing. And at the moment don't go to Thailand for drinking.

We all know how Thais are. The restaurant and bar owners will not step in and police it.

The alcohol ban alone is not going to solve the Covid problem. But together with masks, distancing, hygiene etc. it all contributes. Not just here, but we've seen it all over the world.

Funny that the voices are getting louder now more people are vaccinated. It's all me, me, me and nobody cares about the ones who get the vaccines last.

Maybe they should have vaccinated the bar owners and alci's last. I'm sure we'd not have the same demands then.