Could we witness the formation of a United Ireland?

[gummy]

5 minutes ago, NorfolkandChance said:

A bit like Norwich and Ipswich.

Wash you mouth out sir, 

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, NorfolkandChance said:

Meanwhile the walls are still up, dividing the 2 communities in Belfast. Never happen.

Not sure what "walls" you are talking about, but the moveable barriers such as the gate on the Falls Rd no longer have checkpoints and have been open for years. There are discussions taking place with a view to removing most of these structures by 2023.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_lines

Extract: In September 2017, the Northern Ireland Department of Justice published its Interface Programme, established to deliver the commitment made by the Northern Ireland Executive to remove all Interface structures by 2023 under the Together: Building a United Community Strategy.

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, mickkotlarski said:

So are these walls between die hards enough to keep the 2 nations separate?

I think when it's all said and done, very few people on either side have any appetite for the return of the gunmen. 25 years of relative peace and calm have shown that they can co-exist.

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, gummy said:

Suspect it will require a further generation for common sense to prevail  putting an end finally to religious and nationalistic bigotry.

Religious bigotry will still exist. It's just another form of populist fascism. Thankfully, most of the western world is heading slowly towards secularism. 

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, gummy said:

Now that's worth a whole new thread.

Even football rivalries in general.

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, NorfolkandChance said:

A bit like Norwich and Ipswich.

I don't suppose that too many people are aware that there was once a war between Norfolk and Suffolk at the end of the Peasants Revolt in 1381. I wonder if the people of Suffolk ever say, "The South will rise again" (hahaha)

[NorfolkandChance]

1 hour ago, JohninDubin said:

Not sure what "walls" you are talking about, but the moveable barriers such as the gate on the Falls Rd no longer have checkpoints and have been open for years. There are discussions taking place with a view to removing most of these structures by 2023.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_lines

Extract: In September 2017, the Northern Ireland Department of Justice published its Interface Programme, established to deliver the commitment made by the Northern Ireland Executive to remove all Interface structures by 2023 under the Together: Building a United Community Strategy.

There are more then 20 miles of Peace walls/ Peace lines in Northern Ireland. 
I think there might be a problem if they removed the Fall road/ Shankill road wall.

[JohninDublin]

14 minutes ago, NorfolkandChance said:

There are more then 20 miles of Peace walls/ Peace lines in Northern Ireland. 
I think there might be a problem if they removed the Fall road/ Shankill road wall.

And then again, sanity might take hold?

[mickkotlarski]

1 hour ago, NorfolkandChance said:

There are more then 20 miles of Peace walls/ Peace lines in Northern Ireland. 
I think there might be a problem if they removed the Fall road/ Shankill road wall.

Should we call in Reagan and Gorbachev? I really am at a loss for words that a modern day European nation has squabbles like the Hatfield's and the McCoy's feud. Perhaps the best way is to expose the hard line fools on the global stage.

I've learnt a lot about a topic in recent days and can understand about historical events that lead to hostility but unfortunately I understand more about what has kept it that way.

If there is a leprechaun's pot of gold at the end of the rainbow it is the new generation and most of the old can finally realize that historical bad blood is only that and a United Ireland belongs to all the citizens not just a religious group or political ideology.

 

[Wanderer]

On 10/27/2021 at 2:46 PM, mickkotlarski said:

But is it purely religious? Nearly every nation in South East Asia or for that matter world wide has several religions residing together yet these are 2 Christian faiths on the same island in a democratic nation Gummy.

It has never been purely religious, it is nationalistic. Are you British or are you Irish.? 

[Wanderer]

On 10/29/2021 at 3:21 PM, JohninDubin said:

Religious bigotry will still exist. It's just another form of populist fascism. Thankfully, most of the western world is heading slowly towards secularism. 

And theological illiteracy. 

[JohninDublin]

14 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

And theological illiteracy. 

Why is theological literacy even something that we might consider? There are multiple religions, many of whose values contradict each other. It follows that religion is like a conspiracy theory. If there are 1000 CT's surrounding one event then it follows that at least 999 must be wrong. And if 999 must be wrong, why not 1000? There is as much validity for the existence of deities as there are for the existence of fairies. 

Personally, I am not a believer but I do like the current Pope who said that there will be room in the next world for Atheists, and not because I think that is a loophole for me. I like it because I think that if god did exist he would be a just god and reward those who were good people, regardless of whether like some, they came to church every Sunday.  before going home to enjoy a bit of spousal abuse. 

The fact that someone does not know scripture does not detract from them IMHO.

[Wanderer]

Well according to Scripture it does. Being a good boy, being kind to animals, helping old ladies cross the road etc are not what gets people into heaven.

By God's grace you are saved through believing, not through your own efforts. (Ephesians) a newish Bible version not the King Janes

If you are saved/born again you will do the above things anyway. I mentioned theological illiteracy as an adjunct to secularism. 

Your HO and possibly that of the majority of people are a long way from what Scripture contains. 

[Wanderer]

I mentioned theological illiteracy as it contributes to secularism. 

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, Wanderer said:

I mentioned theological illiteracy as it contributes to secularism. 

So reading the bible is the only way to get into heaven?

[Wanderer]

I'll try again. 

Theological illiteracy is a contributory factor to secularism. 

People are growing up not understanding the faith and culture they are a part of so they reject it. 

But to answer your question if a person considers themselves a Christian I would think the Bible would be their rule and guide. 

[mickkotlarski]

On 11/22/2021 at 7:55 PM, Wanderer said:

It has never been purely religious, it is nationalistic. Are you British or are you Irish.? 

Actually neither which is why I opened the topic so I can understand better why the resentment is continuing.

You mention nationalism but both are Irish.

Is Northern Ireland not predominantly protestant?  The republic is catholic but is this truly enough for a United Ireland not to exist?

[JohninDublin]

On 11/22/2021 at 1:59 PM, Wanderer said:

Well according to Scripture it does. Being a good boy, being kind to animals, helping old ladies cross the road etc are not what gets people into heaven.

By God's grace you are saved through believing, not through your own efforts. (Ephesians) a newish Bible version not the King Janes

If you are saved/born again you will do the above things anyway. I mentioned theological illiteracy as an adjunct to secularism. 

Your HO and possibly that of the majority of people are a long way from what Scripture contains. 

It would help when you are replying, to click the "quote" button at the bottom of the post you are responding to. That way the person you are replying to will get a notification that he can action as he sees fit.

There is something of Munchausen's Syndrome in the god you portray with his need to be worshipped. He will not reward those who lead a good life, but will those who worship him and believe in him, and that would include the monstrous Mexican cartel members who build shrines in the hope of attracting good luck and protection from their deity while they go about their murderous deeds. I don't know why he doesn't just open a Facebook account, and count his likes. And of course if you are from somewhere where Xianity has never been heard of, then the implication is that you are doomed regarding an after life, unless your god makes a get out clause for that group. And if he does, why would he not also make such an exemption for people who spend their lives doing good works but don't believe in him

But whose to say that your book is any more reliable than say, L. Ron Hubbard's writings? The bible has a long history of contradictory interpretation. In the 19th Century, it was used to justify slavery. American Conservative Xians get extremely upset with me when I quote from Matthew 25: 31-46 to show them that Jesus was a socialist, especially as it attacks a lot of their values.

I find your version of god a very flawed personality. 

[mickkotlarski]

On 11/24/2021 at 4:25 PM, Rookiescot said:

So reading the bible is the only way to get into heaven?

Exactly!! Are we to believe that people of other faiths are automatically deemed as heathens to be cast into Hades?

I don't knock people that choose to adopt Christian faith but the forest dwelling people of the world can be cracking folk with wonderful morals but must they be spiritually devoid because of "theological illiteracy". My scientific thought says b+llocks to that.   

[mickkotlarski]

6 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

It would help when you are replying, to click the "quote" button at the bottom of the post you are responding to. That way the person you are replying to will get a notification that he can action as he sees fit.

There is something of Munchausen's Syndrome in the god you portray with his need to be worshipped. He will not reward those who lead a good life, but will those who worship him and believe in him, and that would include the monstrous Mexican cartel members who build shrines in the hope of attracting good luck and protection from their deity while they go about their murderous deeds. I don't know why he doesn't just open a Facebook account, and count his likes. And of course if you are from somewhere where Xianity has never been heard of, then the implication is that you are doomed regarding an after life, unless your god makes a get out clause for that group. And if he does, why would he not also make such an exemption for people who spend their lives doing good works but don't believe in him

But whose to say that your book is any more reliable than say, L. Ron Hubbard's writings? The bible has a long history of contradictory interpretation. In the 19th Century, it was used to justify slavery. American Conservative Xians get extremely upset with me when I quote from Matthew 25: 31-46 to show them that Jesus was a socialist, especially as it attacks a lot of their values.

I find your version of god a very flawed personality. 

Agreed and appreciated. But I guess as a theologically illiterate person according to Wanderer I have cause to be bound to secularism. A voluntary choice I shall follow with an open mind.

[Andrew Reeve]

There are many off topic posts and please return to the topic of the thread 

Any off topic posts will be removed

Could we witness the formation of a United Ireland?

[mickkotlarski]

2 minutes ago, Andrew Reeve said:

There are many off topic posts and please return to the topic of the thread 

Any off topic posts will be removed

Could we witness the formation of a United Ireland?

Yes!  Got triggered there.  Thanks Andrew.

[Soidog]

I have to declare nothing other than an emotional and irrational view of the question of Ireland and Northern Ireland. As a youngster growing up in England I got utterly sick to the back teeth of the news reports. The terrorist attacks in England and the never ending pictures of rain soaked streets in council houses strewn with bricks and stones and young kids hurling insults at soldiers. Even when my parents finally bought a colour television, it still didn’t change the grim grey images coming out of Belfast. I honestly couldn’t care what the Northern Irish do. I would be perfectly happy to have them stay or reunify with Ireland. Geographically it makes sense and I’m sure historically it makes sense for them to reunify. I’m just sick of the whole sorry mess a bunch of Irish people can’t seem to sort out.

Will it happen? I honestly don’t know and I honestly don’t care. I suspect from what I hear and read it probably will.

Sorry but I had to get that off my chest  

[gummy]

50 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I have to declare nothing other than an emotional and irrational view of the question of Ireland and Northern Ireland. As a youngster growing up in England I got utterly sick to the back teeth of the news reports. The terrorist attacks in England and the never ending pictures of rain soaked streets in council houses strewn with bricks and stones and young kids hurling insults at soldiers. Even when my parents finally bought a colour television, it still didn’t change the grim grey images coming out of Belfast. I honestly couldn’t care what the Northern Irish do. I would be perfectly happy to have them stay or reunify with Ireland. Geographically it makes sense and I’m sure historically it makes sense for them to reunify. I’m just sick of the whole sorry mess a bunch of Irish people can’t seem to sort out.

Will it happen? I honestly don’t know and I honestly don’t care. I suspect from what I hear and read it probably will.

Sorry but I had to get that off my chest  

With you 100%.  With such a bunch of intolerant religious weirdos on both sides they really do deserve each other.

[Wanderer]

14 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

It would help when you are replying, to click the "quote" button at the bottom of the post you are responding to. That way the person you are replying to will get a notification that he can action as he sees fit.

There is something of Munchausen's Syndrome in the god you portray with his need to be worshipped. He will not reward those who lead a good life, but will those who worship him and believe in him, and that would include the monstrous Mexican cartel members who build shrines in the hope of attracting good luck and protection from their deity while they go about their murderous deeds. I don't know why he doesn't just open a Facebook account, and count his likes. And of course if you are from somewhere where Xianity has never been heard of, then the implication is that you are doomed regarding an after life, unless your god makes a get out clause for that group. And if he does, why would he not also make such an exemption for people who spend their lives doing good works but don't believe in him

But whose to say that your book is any more reliable than say, L. Ron Hubbard's writings? The bible has a long history of contradictory interpretation. In the 19th Century, it was used to justify slavery. American Conservative Xians get extremely upset with me when I quote from Matthew 25: 31-46 to show them that Jesus was a socialist, especially as it attacks a lot of their values.

I find your version of god a very flawed personality. 

I was just quoting the theology.