Could we witness the formation of a United Ireland?

[Wanderer]

15 hours ago, mickkotlarski said:

Actually neither which is why I opened the topic so I can understand better why the resentment is continuing.

You mention nationalism but both are Irish.

Is Northern Ireland not predominantly protestant?  The republic is catholic but is this truly enough for a United Ireland not to exist?

The question was intended to illustrate the division not get a response. The division is not about religion it is about nationality. People fighting in the streets are not fighting over the real presence in the mass, they are fighting over Irish v British. 

But does anyone here understand the real presence.? If you do best not to explain it or it may get deleted. 

[Wanderer]

On 11/24/2021 at 4:25 PM, Rookiescot said:

So reading the bible is the only way to get into heaven?

I did reply but omitted to use the quote symbol so you may not have seen it. 

Being Scottish it is likely you will have an understanding of both the Reformation and the situation in Ulster. 

[mickkotlarski]

1 hour ago, Wanderer said:

The question was intended to illustrate the division not get a response. The division is not about religion it is about nationality. People fighting in the streets are not fighting over the real presence in the mass, they are fighting over Irish v British. 

But does anyone here understand the real presence.? If you do best not to explain it or it may get deleted. 

Thanks Wanderer...Its truly something I don't understand but what I do gather is that the hatred runs very deep. Shame really.

 

[JohninDublin]

2 hours ago, Wanderer said:

I was just quoting the theology. 

Good to see that you took my advice about the quote function. Thank you.

Regarding the theology, does it not occur to you that if Ulster was totally devoid of Theological literacy, thousands might not have died over who's interpretation of the Bible was correct?

[Soidog]

49 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Thanks Wanderer...Its truly something I don't understand but what I do gather is that the hatred runs very deep. Shame really.

It’s like all intrenched hatred Mick, it takes bold decisions by big hearts and brains to stop it. The situation in Ireland requires it, just as much as the Palestinian issue does or the South African Apartheid issue did. I still hold on to the hope that most people want these conflicts sorted out and would happily get on with their life. It’s the small power crazy minorities with vested interests in keeping the conflict raging who need sorting out. It’s my experience that most people simply want to live their life. Go to work, raise their family and be happy. Maybe even go to Pattaya once in a while

[mickkotlarski]

1 minute ago, Soidog said:

It’s like all intrenched hatred Mick, it takes bold decisions by big hearts and brains to stop it. The situation in Ireland requires it, just as much as the Palestinian issue does or the South African Apartheid issue did. I still hold on to the hope that most people want these conflicts sorted out and would happily get on with their life. It’s the small power crazy minorities with vested interests in keeping the conflict raging who need sorting out. It’s my experience that most people simply want to live their life. Go to work, raise their family and be happy. Maybe even go to Pattaya once in a while

Thank you Soidog.

[23RD]

I wasn't going to comment on this topic despite having some first hand knowledge off the matter after 1174 days of service in Northern Ireland.

The answer is yes and it's all down to demographics when I first served in Northern Ireland in 1992 there was nearly a 2/3 Protestant majority now the Protestants hold a majority in only the over 60's amongst School Children it's now a 2/3 majority in favour off Catholics.

I don't think we'll see a Hong Kong type handover in the next few years however it will eventually fade into the Republic over time.

There is over 100 thousand Protestants living in the Republic with no problems at all and I really believe it will eventually become a unified Country.

I had some good memories off my service there (apart from feeling tired and wet for most off it) and I've meet some really decent People (on both sides off the Religious divide).

[mickkotlarski]

13 minutes ago, 23RD said:

I wasn't going to comment on this topic despite having some first hand knowledge off the matter after 1174 days of service in Northern Ireland.

The answer is yes and it's all down to demographics when I first served in Northern Ireland in 1992 there was nearly a 2/3 Protestant majority now the Protestants hold a majority in only the over 60's amongst School Children it's now a 2/3 majority in favour off Catholics.

I don't think we'll see a Hong Kong type handover in the next few years however it will eventually fade into the Republic over time.

There is over 100 thousand Protestants living in the Republic with no problems at all and I really believe it will eventually become a unified Country.

I had some good memories off my service there (apart from feeling tired and wet for most off it) and I've meet some really decent People (on both sides off the Religious divide).

Thanks 23RD. Nice to see that there is hope after all.

[Wanderer]

3 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

Good to see that you took my advice about the quote function. Thank you.

Regarding the theology, does it not occur to you that if Ulster was totally devoid of Theological literacy, thousands might not have died over who's interpretation of the Bible was correct?

Does it not occur to you that if the world was devoid of theological literacy millions might not have died. No need to pick on Ulster. 

I am divided over whether or not who's is correct or should be whose. 

I am regretting starting to watch crime+investigation, not seen this one before and want to go out for a drink. 

 

[Rookiescot]

5 hours ago, Wanderer said:

I did reply but omitted to use the quote symbol so you may not have seen it. 

Being Scottish it is likely you will have an understanding of both the Reformation and the situation in Ulster. 

Yes I am fully aware of the reformation and the situation in Northern Ireland. It is sadly reflected in Scotland with sectarianism and bigotry on both sides of the religious divide.

Thankfully it is on the wane but sadly I dont think we will ever be free of it.

[mickkotlarski]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yes I am fully aware of the reformation and the situation in Northern Ireland. It is sadly reflected in Scotland with sectarianism and bigotry on both sides of the religious divide.

Thankfully it is on the wane but sadly I dont think we will ever be free of it.

It's sad really that no matter how many conflicts and strife humanity endures over politics and greed that hatred can be this deeply rooted. 

[JohninDublin]

21 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

Does it not occur to you that if the world was devoid of theological literacy millions might not have died. No need to pick on Ulster. 

I am divided over whether or not who's is correct or should be whose. 

I am regretting starting to watch crime+investigation, not seen this one before and want to go out for a drink. 

Of course that thought occurs to me. Regardless, you are decrying theological illiteracy while admitting that it was the opposite that is part of the problem in Ulster, and even worse, in many other countries.

You are correct. It should be "whose". Not sure that adds much to the debate.

[JohninDublin]

6 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

It's sad really that no matter how many conflicts and strife humanity endures over politics and greed that hatred can be this deeply rooted. 

That's the human failing. We can find plenty of reasons to hate complete strangers who may have no ill will towards us. And so in Ulster, there are those who hate people they have never met simply because of the difference in faith.

Regarding the need to hate that some feel, I am reminded of the story of the man walking through Belfast late at night, who is accosted by a couple of masked gunmen. They ask him if he is a Catholic or a Protestant? He replies that he's an Atheist. The gunmen keep their weapons trained on him but move away for a heated conference. After a couple of minutes they return and ask him, "Are you a Catholic Atheist, or a Protestant Atheist"?

[mickkotlarski]

1 minute ago, JohninDubin said:

That's the human failing. We can find plenty of reasons to hate complete strangers who may have no ill will towards us. And so in Ulster, there are those who hate people they have never met simply because of the difference in faith.

Regarding the need to hate that some feel, I am reminded of the story of the man walking through Belfast late at night, who is accosted by a couple of masked gunmen. They ask him if he is a Catholic or a Protestant? He replies that he's an Atheist. The gunmen keep their weapons trained on him but move away for a heated conference. After a couple of minutes they return and ask him, "Are you a Catholic Atheist, or a Protestant Atheist"?

I guess even in neanderthal fueled conflict there is a comical side to things.   

[Rookiescot]

38 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

I guess even in neanderthal fueled conflict there is a comical side to things.   

Its genuinely worse than that. Consider how each side of the sectarian divide used to agree as to who owned certain activities in areas of Northern Ireland. Prostitutes, drugs, illegal gambling and the taxis are are good examples.

You think those arrangements came about accidentally? 

Also consider how each side were able to take out targets which were high profile but never managed to take out each others senior ranks. Its curious.

Its more like 2 feuding mafia families where the bosses remain safe but the low level players are fair game. 

[mickkotlarski]

42 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Its genuinely worse than that. Consider how each side of the sectarian divide used to agree as to who owned certain activities in areas of Northern Ireland. Prostitutes, drugs, illegal gambling and the taxis are are good examples.

You think those arrangements came about accidentally? 

Also consider how each side were able to take out targets which were high profile but never managed to take out each others senior ranks. Its curious.

Its more like 2 feuding mafia families where the bosses remain safe but the low level players are fair game. 

I guess that's a good way to describe it. Two feuding mafia families with hatred for the other passed on generation after generation.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, mickkotlarski said:

I guess that's a good way to describe it. Two feuding mafia families with hatred for the other passed on generation after generation.

Yes but it radically boiled down to one thing.

Making money.

[Rangers]

On 10/29/2021 at 5:39 AM, NorfolkandChance said:

Rangers and Celtic will be bosom pals then.

That will be f*ckin right. 

[oldschooler]

On 10/27/2021 at 3:48 PM, Chaimai said:

So, even now 60% don't want want reunification.

I am slightly surprised by that.

Be part of an irrelevant backwater …..or sit at the worlds top tables …. as part of a highly advanced country & the most successful union in history ……Yeah that’s a real difficult decision for any rational person.

[oldschooler]

On 11/27/2021 at 4:29 PM, Soidog said:

It’s like all intrenched hatred Mick, it takes bold decisions by big hearts and brains to stop it. The situation in Ireland requires it, just as much as the Palestinian issue does or the South African Apartheid issue did. I still hold on to the hope that most people want these conflicts sorted out and would happily get on with their life. It’s the small power crazy minorities with vested interests in keeping the conflict raging who need sorting out. It’s my experience that most people simply want to live their life. Go to work, raise their family and be happy. Maybe even go to Pattaya once in a while

No comparison between crazed Arabs / Africans who clearly can never agree on anything and rational civilized Europeans who stepped down in SA,  reached agreement over NI and who transformed post - Nazi Germany.

[Vince]

On 10/26/2021 at 10:07 PM, mickkotlarski said:

With Germany and Vietnam unifying and the two Korea's reopening communication. A question to be asked is if the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland could unite to become one nation. Could this lead to membership in the EU or would an independent Island nation follow the same policies as Switzerland, Iceland and Norway.

As soon as Taiwan and China get sorted out I'm sure Ireland won't be long after. 

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

10 minutes ago, Vince said:

As soon as Taiwan and China get sorted out I'm sure Ireland won't be long after. 

Regardless of what China may say, and what Taiwan may say. 

I do believe the current situation suits both of them very well, even if publicly they both "save face" (by stating otherwise). 

This is pure speculation, but from my extensive with dealing with Chinese people (heck, I'm married to one)... I don't think anything will change in the foreseeable future. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by ctxa

[Vince]

40 minutes ago, ctxa said:

Regardless of what China may say, and what Taiwan may say. 

I do believe the current situation suits both of them very well, even if publicly they both "save face" (by stating otherwise). 

This is pure speculation, but from my extensive with dealing with Chinese people (heck, I'm married to one)... I don't think anything will change in the foreseeable future. 

What? The China-Taiwan situation isnt going to be sorted? 

Well I'm sure as soon as the Israel-Palestine situation is sorted out, Ireland will be next. 

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

7 minutes ago, Vince said:

What? The China-Taiwan situation isnt going to be sorted? 

Highly doubt it. 

See? Most chips in the world are come from Taiwanese companies, TSMC, ASE Technology, Mediatek, etc... And these companies have a lot of customers from the west. AND it also happens that all these companies manufacture most of their products in the Mainland of China. 

Now let's suppose for a moment China takes Taiwan, will the west keep using those chips that Taiwan (now China) produces? Highly doubt it, provided that the west has even banned Huawei phones! 

On the other hand let's suppose Taiwan formally declares independence from China to the point they piss off the CCP and the CCP closes those Taiwanese factories in the Mainland. Taiwan will miss on a lot of money they badly need, because manufacture cost in Taiwan will skyrocket for those chips and they will no longer be competitive!

Those Taiwanese factories need China to be profitable (manufacture in the mainland), and China won't be keen on missing out on the money that comes from the Taiwanese chip industry either. 

 

So the current way of hating each other with propaganda during the day, but sleeping together at night, works very well for both of them. In the end it's all about money. 

 

(Hope this theory of mine doesn't get proved wrong in the near future)

Edited January 20, 2022 by ctxa

[Vince]

3 minutes ago, ctxa said:

Highly doubt it. 

See? Most chips in the world are come from Taiwanese companies, TSMC, ASE Technology, Mediatek, etc... And these companies have a lot of customers from the west. AND it also happens that all these companies manufacture most of their products in the Mainland of China. 

Now let's suppose for a moment China takes Taiwan, will the west keep using those chips that Taiwan (now China) produces? Highly doubt it, provided that the west has even banned Huawei phones! 

On the other hand let's suppose Taiwan formally declares independence from China to the point they piss off the CCP and the CCP closes those Taiwanese factories in the Mainland. Taiwan will miss on a lot of money they badly need, because manufacture cost in Taiwan will skyrocket for those chips and they will no longer be competitive!

Those Taiwanese factories need China to be profitable (manufacture in the mainland), and China won't be keen on missing out on the money that comes from the Taiwanese chip industry either. 

So the current way of hating each other with propaganda during the day, but sleeping together at night, works very well for both of them. In the end it's all about money. 

(Hope this theory of mine doesn't get proved wrong in the near future)

Well then I guess Ireland will have to wait a bit.