News Forum - Thailand to require 3 million baht insurance for non- OA immigrant visas

[LoongFred]

On 10/20/2021 at 2:14 PM, AussieBob said:

There was a lot of media stories some years ago - many hospitals complained - they sent a delegation to see the Junta Govt about losing money over the period of many previous years.  After 'consultation' with the Thai health insurance industry, the Junta announced the mandatory insurance for O-A Visas.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/advanced/217882/destitute-foreigners-and-thailand-hospitals

Additionally, there has been a lot of uninsured tourists visiting Thailand and ending up costing the hospitals (and themselves) a lot of money.  This issue has become a big one too for many years - and the flow on the long term Expats is inevitable. 

UK manhttps://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2018/10/24/uk-man-stranded-in-thailand-facing-a-100000-medical-bill-may-be-rescued-by-crowd-funding-success/

Yea , I remember that the unpaid hospital bills were specific to tourists from certain countries only. I think some tourist figure that since there government pays at home they'll also pay in Thailand.  It was pretty country specific and did not include those on long term retirement or marriage visas. My question is why not go after the offenders and leave the rest of us alone.  

Also the 300 baht (now 500 baht) entry tax was suppost to address this. Lastly I believe most of this was cause by tourists on scooters. Why not add an insurance requirement to scooter rentals.

Maybe this is all a scheme by the insurance companies to get new policies. 

[RobMuir]

3 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

believe most of this was cause by tourists on scooters. Why not add an insurance requirement to scooter rentals.

Well, due to the current covid climate there WILL be tourists that contract covid and some of those will need ICUs. That can get expensive.

Most tourists don't bring enough cash with them to cover an extended hospital stay and they are not likely to pay when returning home. If everyone just did the right thing this would be unnecessary, but thousands haven't thus the need to fix the problem. Instead of blaming "the government" we should be blaming the scumbag foreigners who were treated and skipped the bill.

So just like you suggested about having an insurance requirement on scooters, this has been introduced to cover people who will catch covid and need medical care. 

A good idea that the government should be commended for.

[ninja]

23 hours ago, DwizzleyMatthews said:

I would say many here don’t have insurance purely because they are not forced to have it, if they were forced to have it I think many would not complain ……….. providing the premiums are in line with the policies of course .

well,  that is a pretty HUGE provision.    Once again i find myself in the naysayers group who either a. object to being told they have to do something   b. are able to pay themselves   c.  have plenty of money saved because they never had health insurance with all the BS  and fine print and escalating costs whether one had ever had a claim or not .

its very simple .   leave me alone !   i am doing just fine without these mandates,  thank you

[Faz]

7 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

So just like you suggested about having an insurance requirement on scooters, this has been introduced to cover people who will catch covid and need medical care. 

That's a separate requirement for all those entering Thailand - $100,000 USD Covid Insurance.

The topic is mandatory Health Insurance 400/40K.

[LoongFred]

6 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

Well, due to the current covid climate there WILL be tourists that contract covid and some of those will need ICUs. That can get expensive.

Most tourists don't bring enough cash with them to cover an extended hospital stay and they are not likely to pay when returning home. If everyone just did the right thing this would be unnecessary, but thousands haven't thus the need to fix the problem. Instead of blaming "the government" we should be blaming the scumbag foreigners who were treated and skipped the bill.

So just like you suggested about having an insurance requirement on scooters, this has been introduced to cover people who will catch covid and need medical care. 

A good idea that the government should be commended for.

Last year I was offer 500k covid insurance for like 500 baht and I took it. Very cheap. My wife got 1M coverage but I can't recall the price, but it wasn't enough to worry about

 

[ninja]

Just now, RobMuir said:

Well, due to the current covid climate there WILL be tourists that contract covid and some of those will need ICUs. That can get expensive.

Most tourists don't bring enough cash with them to cover an extended hospital stay and they are not likely to pay when returning home. If everyone just did the right thing this would be unnecessary, but thousands haven't thus the need to fix the problem. Instead of blaming "the government" we should be blaming the scumbag foreigners who were treated and skipped the bill.

So just like you suggested about having an insurance requirement on scooters, this has been introduced to cover people who will catch covid and need medical care. 

A good idea that the government should be commended for.

oh rob !   rob from the poor and give to the rich ?       The "taxes"  we all pay no matter what country go mostly to increase the wealth of those in power.    (which includes the insurance mafias)

now,  if every person coming to thailand were to have just 100 baht added to their ticket.... and all those billions would be put in YOUR charge to oversee and pay the bills of those who were in need of care,  i'm all for it.      IF done without lining someones pockets,  there would be a huge account surplus, i am sure

[ThailandBob]

I'm not wealthy by expat standards but can pay for almost anything short term. Something long term (or longer lol) and I'd go back to the states where I continue to pay monthly Medicare premiums just to ensure that heaven forbid, it's there if  I need it someday.

I would be fine with putting up a 3M baht deposit like was mentioned previously, and just pay as I go for the everyday cuts, scrapes, tears, that I tend to receive due to sheer clumsiness. 

[riclag]

41 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Yea , I remember that the unpaid hospital bills were specific to tourists from certain countries only. I think some tourist figure that since there government pays at home they'll also pay in Thailand.  It was pretty country specific and did not include those on long term retirement or marriage visas. My question is why not go after the offenders and leave the rest of us alone.  

Also the 300 baht (now 500 baht) entry tax was suppost to address this. Lastly I believe most of this was cause by tourists on scooters. Why not add an insurance requirement to scooter rentals.

Maybe this is all a scheme by the insurance companies to get new policies. 

Your last paragraph described the pot of gold  at the end of the Thai govt rainbow!

[RobMuir]

21 minutes ago, ninja said:

oh rob !   rob from the poor and give to the rich ?       The "taxes"  we all pay no matter what country go mostly to increase the wealth of those in power.    (which includes the insurance mafias)

now,  if every person coming to thailand were to have just 100 baht added to their ticket.... and all those billions would be put in YOUR charge to oversee and pay the bills of those who were in need of care,  i'm all for it.      IF done without lining someones pockets,  there would be a huge account surplus, i am sure

Anyway, it is lucky myself and yourself are not required to get this insurance because of the visas we are on.

But I like your idea of putting me in charge of it! 

A big hello to Smiley. Seeniu is dozing.

[Soidog]

8 hours ago, AussieBob said:

The cheapest policy for my age when/if move there (and not worth it obviously) will cost me about 70K PA, and the premiums will go up big time each year, and then they go up massively once I hit 70, and then at 75 then they can (and will) decline.  And that is at the current 400K/40K.  There are no policies (yet) for the proposed 3M/40K coverage - maybe 50-100% increase in the premiums? 

BUT and this is the issue - the Junta can and will change that insurance requirement at any time. They just did less than 2 years after first introducing the mandatory policy. There is absolutely no guarantees in the Thailand expat program - there are in all those other countries I previously mentioned. And there are no guarantees that the Junta will not impose that same mandatory insurance on Expat married Visas - despite what others may say. The only reason that have not already (IMO) is because there are many young married Expats - only the over-50s can get a retirement Visa.  Watch out for a new Visa/Extension category - the over-50 married Visa - that means only one thing - they are coming for you next - so start preparing.

I totally agree. I posted a similar thing a few days ago. I’m very happy to spend many months of my life in Thailand and I may very well look to spend all of my time there when I fully retire. However, I will always ensure I’m in a position to return home and have a roof over my head.  
 

It is a difficult thing to debate as I can see the issue from both sides. If you allow many retired people to live in Thailand without any medical cover, what happens when they get sick and need expensive medical cover? Why should the Thai tax payer cover you? Then there is the argument that many moved to Thailand around the age of 55 (many much earlier) and have contributed to the economy for 20 years and in many cases spending the equivalent of 40 to 60 years spending compared to your average Thai. So why shouldn’t they be taken care of?
 

Hopefully in the coming years things will change and you will be able to settle more securely and in the knowledge that you won’t reach the age of 75-80 and have to return to your homeland. It is a scary situation if you stop and think what could happen at the whim of a few individuals. 

[riclag]

3 mill coverage for age 65.Anybody here have “a ball park “ figure on a just to get in the door , monthly/yearly premium, without going Online price hopping? I’m curious 

 

Just so you know I realize the many options ,plans and particulars.

Edited October 21, 2021 by riclag

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, RobMuir said:

I can honestly say that wouldn't bother me in the slightest. The less of us there are here the less we have like the bloke the other day who bashed and raped the massage woman and molested the school kid etc.

True, but that guy was in his 40’s. I don’t think many old boys in their 70’s would have engaged in such actions? 

[Soidog]

2 minutes ago, riclag said:

3 mill coverage for age 65.Anybody here have “a ball park “ figure on a just to get in the door , monthly/yearly premium, without going Online price hopping? I’m curious 

Just so you know I realize the many options ,plans and particulars.

@AussieBob posted that around 65-69 it’s 70k baht a year. That sounds about right to me. At 70 it will go up again and at 75 you’ll be lucky to get the cover. 

[Soidog]

29 minutes ago, ThailandBob said:

I'm not wealthy by expat standards but can pay for almost anything short term. Something long term (or longer lol) and I'd go back to the states where I continue to pay monthly Medicare premiums just to ensure that heaven forbid, it's there if  I need it someday.

I would be fine with putting up a 3M baht deposit like was mentioned previously, and just pay as I go for the everyday cuts, scrapes, tears, that I tend to receive due to sheer clumsiness. 

Yes I would be in a similar position when I retire. This could perhaps do with a topic of its own as it would be good to see what current arrangements exit around the world and what options people think could be employed in Thailand. This would be for academic purposes only of course as it wouldn’t influence any Thai policies! 
 

What is really required is reciprocal arrangements from our home countries. You pay Medicare in the US and I pay a “tax” for U.K. NHS. why shouldn’t that cover extend to us when outside of the country? I’m told Norway health system does exactly that. Any medical costs you incur abroad is covered? I don’t have the details and it may only cover you in an emergency. Surgery for cancer for example may not be covered and they may expect you to return home? Maybe a Norwegian could clarify? 

[Soidog]

7 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

Yes, a mate had it and used it when he caught covid. Ten nights in Bangkok Phuket hospital. 

Very well looked after, ICU on hand but it wasn't required. His girlfriend also tested positive a few days later and after the first night they put them in the same room. She had different insurance but also was fully covered.

All these people moaning about paying a bit of insurance will be the ones moaning more when they get their hospital bills.

The bill would have done to 130,000 he said.

They are doing us a favour.

Thankyou Thailand! 

Can you explain a little further the favour they are doing please? If the 500 baht cover was available to all and to cover all at any age then I’d gladly pay 10 or even 100 times that per year. The problem is when it’s 70,000 for 60-69 years old. 100,000 for 70-75 and no cover beyond 75. So can you explain what I’m missing in your post? 

[Faz]

49 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Last year I was offer 500k covid insurance for like 500 baht and I took it. Very cheap. My wife got 1M coverage but I can't recall the price, but it wasn't enough to worry about

That wasn't for Covid to cover as an 'inbound' passenger, that was a local inhouse Thai policy.
Read it again the coverage amounts are in Thai BHT, not USD.

I have one of those policies, it covers me for 100,000 THB, or in the event of death from Covid, pays the wife 1M THB. These policies do not meet the requirements for 'inbound' travels entering Thailand.

The topic is not about the $100,000 UD Covid Insurance required by all entering Thailand.
It's about the mandatory Health Insurance requirement of currently 400/40K THB, proposed to increase to 3M THB from September next year.

After that explanation, further off topic posts will be removed.
If you don't understand the differences in Insurance requirements, please refrain from posting and muddying the water.

[Faz]

Some off topic posts discussing the $100,000 Covid Insurance requirement have been removed.

[HolyCowCm]

1 hour ago, ThailandBob said:

I'm not wealthy by expat standards but can pay for almost anything short term. Something long term (or longer lol) and I'd go back to the states where I continue to pay monthly Medicare premiums just to ensure that heaven forbid, it's there if  I need it someday.

I would be fine with putting up a 3M baht deposit like was mentioned previously, and just pay as I go for the everyday cuts, scrapes, tears, that I tend to receive due to sheer clumsiness. 

Even 1 or 1.5 million probably would be good. But that would be my way to go. 1.5 I already have just sitting. Add the renewal amount and more than that easily. 

[LoongFred]

20 minutes ago, Faz said:

That wasn't for Covid to cover as an 'inbound' passenger, that was a local inhouse Thai policy.
Read it again the coverage amounts are in Thai BHT, not USD.

I have one of those policies, it covers me for 100,000 THB, or in the event of death from Covid, pays the wife 1M THB. These policies do not meet the requirements for 'inbound' travels entering Thailand.

The topic is not about the $100,000 UD Covid Insurance required by all entering Thailand.
It's about the mandatory Health Insurance requirement of currently 400/40K THB, proposed to increase to 3M THB from September next year.

After that explanation, further off topic posts will be removed.
If you don't understand the differences in Insurance requirements, please refrain from posting and muddying the water.

They look at who was running out from their bills and it was obviously younger tourists from certain countries, especially renting scooters. Why do they want to make those of us who pay our bills and behave pay?

I do have insurance that would pay for something big, but I’ve never needed to use it. 

The cost of care here is very cheap compared with the US and maybe I don't mind paying. 

Anyway I sure this will not affect those of us extending Non O visas. It seem like a yearly promotion to help the insurance companies.

 

[HolyCowCm]

3 hours ago, LoongFred said:

My question is why not go after the offenders and leave the rest of us alone.  

If that was publicized to all then great. Have a hot line of non payment and then you are not leaving the country. Also if you die then there should have been some sort of a pre die tax of 50 baht on your entry ticket. Not too many people die here and don't pay their bills. I actually love this idea. Sign the understanding and consent form before landing or get back on the next flight out not enjoying it here.

3 hours ago, LoongFred said:

Also the 300 baht (now 500 baht) entry tax was suppost to address this. Lastly I believe most of this was cause by tourists on scooters. Why not add an insurance requirement to scooter rentals.

Maybe this is all a scheme by the insurance companies to get new policies. 

As far as I care put the amount at 1000 baht per entry. For us expats we would be in a different category of fee when renewal. For me better that way because I am normally 10 or 11 months in country every year. 

[Bob20]

 

Now here's what you call SPIN !

Health cover perks for foreigners

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2201423/health-cover-perks-for-foreigners

[JamesR]

I bought from a British company an insurance which covered me for all sorts of things including £7.5 million (pounds sterling) for health insurance, covering sickness, accidents, in-patient, out-patient and emergency repatriation back to the UK.

I was for nine months and started in January 2020 which was pre covid and cost me a few hundred pounds I think, nothing too much, so why would it put anyone off unless the prices have drastically changed for the worse?

I was 64 at the time so maybe the price of the insurance starts to climb steeply once you get nearer to 75?

But why would anyone want to live with little insurance as it is too risky?

 

[AussieBob]

16 hours ago, ThailandBob said:

In a previous iteration of this new rule, back in June, there was mention that for those who are 70+ or otherwise not able to get insurance, a deposit of 3M baht would be allowed. Did that get cast by the wayside, or is that in the guidance somewhere?

Note: Around mid-August, the Thais lowered the maximum amount of deposit insurance coverage to 1M baht, so we'd need to open accounts across 3 banks to have that much on deposit.

As far as I am aware that proposal was dropped. General consensus is that they want to money to be 'permanent' and therefore pay for insurance, whereas a bank deposit would have been refunded. Others believed that they actually believed that the Junta wants to drive 70+ Expats out so they dropped it.  I think it is a bit of both.

 

[AussieBob]

15 hours ago, LoongFred said:

Yea , I remember that the unpaid hospital bills were specific to tourists from certain countries only. I think some tourist figure that since there government pays at home they'll also pay in Thailand.  It was pretty country specific and did not include those on long term retirement or marriage visas. My question is why not go after the offenders and leave the rest of us alone.  

Also the 300 baht (now 500 baht) entry tax was suppost to address this. Lastly I believe most of this was cause by tourists on scooters. Why not add an insurance requirement to scooter rentals.

Maybe this is all a scheme by the insurance companies to get new policies. 

I guarantee that the insurance industry proposed to the Govt these new policies - that is how they are.  And yes, that 300/500 baht fee was supposed to be for uninsured tourists - but the Chinese and others complained because they had insurance. So they kept the fee of course - and now they up it. The 800K in a bank account was also supposed to be for that reason - to make sure Expats had money for medical bills. 

Mate - they think nothing of Expats and taking their money for any reason they like - that is how they see us.

[Graexx]

On 10/20/2021 at 1:05 PM, longwood50 said:

First point, if there was truly a problem with foreigners running up insurance bills and not paying there are other ways to address that.  Personally, I don't believe it.  If I go to a hospital and want service, I am required to pay often in advance for treatment.  A friend of mine who is Thai was fell and had a badly broken leg that required surgery.  She went to Bangkok hospital that required she pay in advance for her treatment.  The simple solution "if there really is a problem" is to require a payment of perhaps 1,000 to 5,000 baht for the visa extension and put that money in a fund to be used to reimburse hospitals for bills incurred by foreigners that go unpaid. 

Are these people that delusional that they can not see the result of this policy.  Any foreigner considering Thailand for retirement will immediately exclude it knowing that eventually they will not be able to obtain or afford the required health insurance.  Those foreigners already here will be forced to liquidate their condo's and homes and move elsewhere causing prices to plummet.  That will impact not just the foreigners but the value of those residences owned by Thai's.  Seeing the value of their home now worth less than what they owe, Thai's will walk away from their homes leaving the banks with huge losses from repossessed properties. 

At the very least, even the consideration of this as a proposal has negative consequences.  Those considering retiring here will now pause or choose someplace else and those already here may out of caution sell their residence and head to exit Thailand seeing that the value of their residence and even their ability to stay here is in peril. 

The Thai Immigration office stated in their advisory, that $13m in hospital bills is annually unpaid by foreigners. This is not large 3nough to be a concern (thailand earns $30B annually from tourists.

So, this new higher insurance requirement is only caused by covid. And should disappear with covid in a year or two. IMHO.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Faz
double posting of comment removed.