News Forum - Thailand to require 3 million baht insurance for non- OA immigrant visas

[AussieBob]

11 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Ya know I actually do not know what they are truly after other than getting foreigners money, but xenophobic does come close to my thoughts. But this actually goes towards their own people being anyone out of their elite illustrious circle.  I think the big point is if one has dug in and really retires and lives here with or without family and then when a certain age or cannot get health care will be very distraught and displaced after pumping money in settling down and creating a life for them in this place. For me I would rather self fund as I have always done and I certainly have those funds to use when and if I ever need them. That is my choice. You are correct in that what they are doing is going to drive the wealthy and medium income people far away from here. the ones scraping by I am not sure how they will fare, but I hope everyone can get past this or they change or drop it entirely. All I know is since i have kids and dogs and home and my life here for decades now, i will have to jump and do what i can do to stay here.

Lots of older blokes in that same situation mate - they have no choice but to grin and bear it.  

But because of what the Junta has done, many Farangs have left (as they wanted) and there are far far less western Farangs interested in retiring in Thailand.  I include Japan and Korea in that list. - and the Junta does not care for all of them.   Meanwhile Malaysia Philippines Indonesia Singapore all have retired expat programs that are far far more attractive than what Thailand currently imposes on Expats. Those other countries realise that there are economic and social benefits from encouraging retired expats to live long term in their country - the vast majority being older single males. Thailand's expat retirement rules have been moving more and more towards those of China - and I fear that those same rules will also be imposed on married expats in the future. Never ever buy property in Thailand - you can sell a car quickly but you cannot sell a condo quickly, or a house that is not in your name. 

[AussieBob]

11 hours ago, Benroon said:

That's often said on expat forums but I don't feel that, have never felt it nor do most I know - the bigger picture is trying to raise the profile of Thailand IMO - since the first day of the dictatorship they have made it quite plain they want rid of Thailands sex industry tag and confine it to the history books - it's evident week in week out. This is another stepping stone in that direction to get people in that can actually afford to live here and not be a potential drain on the economy. whether misguided or not who knows.

Unfortunately the Junta sees ALL expats (that are not working) as sexpats. Their 'good guys in, bad guys out' campaign (remember that) resulted in lots of good guys leaving and has stopped many from entering (only 3K of retired expats came in last 2 years - it was at least 10K a year before that).  

[Chaimai]

12 hours ago, Benroon said:

Agreed - I know dozens of people completely oblivious as to how close they are to that knock on the door, with others convinced they're doing nothing wrong and its completely legal !!

I've always wondered about the completely illegal agent route - when the day comes where a new wannabee government climber climbing up the greasy poll, gets to his desk and thinks right lets just check out this 'money in the bank' agent circumvention and how widespread it is - swiftly followed by reams of 10 year banning orders getting sent out. If you think it's quiet now .....

 

It will never happen - too many fingers are in that particular pie and Thailand is not even close to wanting to eradicate corruption.  

 

Remember, that stamp in someone's passport ('illegally' obtained via corruption) is as valid as one obtained 'legally'. An Immigration Officer has the absolute power to decide on the basis of issue of a retirement extension.

[AussieBob]

9 hours ago, Poolie said:

All the while moaning about road casualties and spiralling ST costs and lack of bars, etc...........

And always moaning about Expats on an Expat forum - who really is the problem?

[Chaimai]

9 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

I think Thaksin started a drive back then on his own agenda. He was pushing to make it into his own little Singapore back then.  Since then been up and down and then the Chinese and now more crunch.  The Junta is just always trying to up the ante on his doings.
 

Drain on the economy? We already pay our own ways more than ever than ever before. As for girly bars and stuff, it is too ingrained into their culture and not just a venue for foreigners. There are a lot of things that look evident but maybe not. I think some of what you say is maybe true and even I have said the same as you just did in this forum recently, but I think they ultimately just want to put their dinosaur mark and stranglehold everything as they just don’t t care as it really doesn’t effect them in their life as they live. I don’t think that stigma is so much in Thailand anymore. Look at street carts and crushing that way of life for Thai. Not just aimed at us. 
My real opinion is they are just trying to do what Thakskin was trying to do and make it into their own little iron fisted Singapore. And yes I believe it is based a lot on Xenophobia and snotty. So those of us will have to jump and those of us will have to pack up and go if it gets worse. The losers won’t be them but it will be the good Thai folk who will be the big losers as people will go somewhere else.  But let’s wait and see what happens as how many more turns of the screw they will do. 
 

 

 

The founding father of Singapore did so without corruption.

 

Thailand is someway behind the 8 ball on that one.

[AussieBob]

9 hours ago, Poolie said:

Exactly......

Exactly - go and slag people on another forum mate - you are not needed or wanted here.  

[palooka]

11 hours ago, Benroon said:

Might have missed it but has anyone actually posted the premiums that would be involved ?

Nah, the insurance companies threw a big party when the news come out and they are still all hungover.555555555

[AussieBob]

8 hours ago, Marc26 said:

But wouldn't that be the case regardless of any country requirements?

I guess my question is what were people doing before?

Wouldn't people have insurance regardless? Seems crazy to me they wouldn't

Yes Marc - you obviously dont know.  The mandatory Thai insurance from Thai providers is for a maximum of 400K baht per incident and it includes Outpatient 40K coverage - it is extremely expensive compared to 'standard' insurance (which many married Expats have) which does not cover outpatients and covers up to/over 1 million per incident. Plus the Thai companies are renown for not paying up and for massively increasing premiums once you hit 70/75 - and many refuse to provide coverage at that age. Go do the research and get to know the issues before arguing with others who know exactly the issues. Read my other posts and those of other expats - there are details included there.  It is NOT about mandatory insurance, it is about ripoff mandatory insurance. 

[AussieBob]

7 hours ago, Faz said:

https://longstay.tgia.org/

There are a number of Insurers to choose from, but the Insurance must be purchased through the TGIA website for extension applications. Prices will depend on age and any pre existing conditions.
LMG are know to offer the cheapest almost throw away policy, but it meets the requirements.
Immigration can 'log in' to this site to confirm the policy details.

The cheapest policy for my age when/if move there (and not worth it obviously) will cost me about 70K PA, and the premiums will go up big time each year, and then they go up massively once I hit 70, and then at 75 then they can (and will) decline.  And that is at the current 400K/40K.  There are no policies (yet) for the proposed 3M/40K coverage - maybe 50-100% increase in the premiums? 

BUT and this is the issue - the Junta can and will change that insurance requirement at any time. They just did less than 2 years after first introducing the mandatory policy. There is absolutely no guarantees in the Thailand expat program - there are in all those other countries I previously mentioned. And there are no guarantees that the Junta will not impose that same mandatory insurance on Expat married Visas - despite what others may say. The only reason that have not already (IMO) is because there are many young married Expats - only the over-50s can get a retirement Visa.  Watch out for a new Visa/Extension category - the over-50 married Visa - that means only one thing - they are coming for you next - so start preparing.

[AussieBob]

29 minutes ago, MikeTexas said:

I'm pretty sure they know exactly what they are doing and the results this change will have.

As Thailand releases plan after plan to lure back tourists, many complain that the complicated entry process, the rising costs, and constant changes to immigration policy not to the benefit of international travellers seems to be simultaneously pushing away the same expats with money that the country espouses to be courting.

They want short-term tourist that come, spend a lot of money, and then.....go home.  Not the people that come over, live modestly, and stay long-term and enjoy the country.  Of course most of the farang problems seem to come from the short-term tourist so go figure.  Maybe they are tired of seeing the gray haired guys with the 20 somethings on the back of their scooters.    Thailand's official motto should be - "If you want to stay - you have got to pay.  And if you can pay, wait until next year as we raise the rates." 

I've said it before - Vietnam is the next Thailand. The more difficult Thailand makes it to enjoy the country the more attractive Vietnam looks. 

Absolutely correct - but two points.  1. 'They' refers to the Junta and Thai elite - the average Thais are happy to have old Expats living in Thailand - they know that they spend their money with them. 2. Vietnam at the moment is going into a 'pause' due to the covid - wait for after covid and for them to release an 'Expat Program' like what those other countries I mentioned want.

The Junta/Elite want to turn Thailand into Singapore - one of those changes being wealthy tourists and very wealthy expats - because they see that as the way they want Thailand to be.  But as we Expats all know, you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear - it is the same shape, but it aint the same. Thailand reminds me of that old book/movie called 'Pigs and Pearls' - we all know who are the pigs and who are the pearls.

[KaptainRob]

4 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

The cheapest policy for my age when/if move there (and not worth it obviously) will cost me about 70K PA, and the premiums will go up big time each year, and then they go up massively once I hit 70, and then at 75 then they can (and will) decline.

Why would you not get a Non-O visa in country?  Then if you want health insurance you can buy from any Insurer.  Most CM expat/CEC members pay ~ $1600 usd at age 70.

[AussieBob]

25 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

Why would you not get a Non-O visa in country?  Then if you want health insurance you can buy from any Insurer.  Most CM expat/CEC members pay ~ $1600 usd at age 70.

Hi Rob - I am not talking about myself right now - I am talking about myself when/if the Junta applies the mandatory insurance to the married Visa/Extension.  I did the research on costs that would be incurred if I was forced to take out the mandatory insurance.  Yes I can get health insurance coverage for about 60K a year. The minimum mandatory policy at this time is 70K PA and I estimate at least 100K PA for the new 3 million baht requirement - and the premiums go up heavily each year (mainly because of the outpatient coverage). But I would prefer to self-insure and put away about 100K PA into a 'slush fund' - that way after 10 years (if we have not used it) then we have 1 million (plus interest) for any future health problems/issues or anything else. Compare that to paying about 2 million in premiums over that same 10 year period (3 million over 15 years) for a mandatory insurance policy that will only pay out a maximum of 400K per event - and under a dubious legal system where I have no rights.  4 years of self funding and I am in front.  Not a chance of us living there if this mandatory insurance is applied to married Visas, or if it is not drastically reduced in costs. 

[Chaimai]

3 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Hi Rob - I am not talking about myself right now - I am talking about myself when/if the Junta applies the mandatory insurance to the married Visa/Extension.  I did the research on costs that would be incurred if I was forced to take out the mandatory insurance.  Yes I can get health insurance coverage for about 60K a year. The minimum mandatory policy at this time is 70K PA and I estimate at least 100K PA for the new 3 million baht requirement - and the premiums go up heavily each year (mainly because of the outpatient coverage). But I would prefer to self-insure and put away about 100K PA into a 'slush fund' - that way after 10 years (if we have not used it) then we have 1 million (plus interest) for any future health problems/issues or anything else. Compare that to paying about 2 million in premiums over that same 10 year period (3 million over 15 years) for a mandatory insurance policy that will only pay out a maximum of 400K per event - and under a dubious legal system where I have no rights.  4 years of self funding and I am in front.  Not a chance of us living there if this mandatory insurance is applied to married Visas, or if it is not drastically reduced in costs. 

 

 

1. It will never happen that Immigration will require health cover for existing Non-O extensions.

 

2. If I am wrong, use an agent. 

[RobMuir]

41 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Thais are happy to have old Expats living in Thailand

Yeah right.

That's why I came, to bring happiness to the people.

Australia forces foreign students etc to take out mandatory insurance, the reason being you don't want foreigners being a burden on the taxpayer. The foreign students on average spend a lot more in Australia with the more expensive costs of living and school fees averaging about 40,000 AUD per than old expats in Issan.

Asking foreigners to get insurance is fair enough I reckon 

[AussieBob]

9 minutes ago, Chaimai said:

1. It will never happen that Immigration will require health cover for existing Non-O extensions.

2. If I am wrong, use an agent. 

Sorry mate - not willing to take that risk. Plenty other options available that allow us to live long term in SEAsia legally and never have to worry about getting arrested fined and a Visa ban etc..  OK for a single bloke I reckon - but not for us/me.

[AussieBob]

5 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

Yeah right.

That's why I came, to bring happiness to the people.

Australia forces foreign students etc to take out mandatory insurance, the reason being you don't want foreigners being a burden on the taxpayer. The foreign students on average spend a lot more in Australia with the more expensive costs of living and school fees averaging about 40,000 AUD per than old expats in Issan.

Asking foreigners to get insurance is fair enough I reckon 

Health insurance is provided free here to all residents and citizens - insurance is only mandatory for those here on long stays, such as students.  But the coverage is good, the costs are reasonable, and the legalities are solid (they will get paid).   But that is not the point - the point is mandatory expensive ripoff insurance provided by Thai companies.  Mandating foreigners to be insured is one thing - taking advantage of them with ripoff Thai policies is the complaint. 

PS - anyone coming to study in Australia is financially 'supported' - it aint given away mate.

[Benroon]

1 hour ago, Chaimai said:

It will never happen - too many fingers are in that particular pie and Thailand is not even close to wanting to eradicate corruption.  

Remember, that stamp in someone's passport ('illegally' obtained via corruption) is as valid as one obtained 'legally'. An Immigration Officer has the absolute power to decide on the basis of issue of a retirement extension.

Even if he’s on the take ? Nothing obtained illegally can be legal. But I agree you’ve probably got a 0.1% chance of it unravelling - I just prefer to sleep without one eye open! 

[Benroon]

1 hour ago, Chaimai said:

The Number of infections is largely irrelevant - it is simply a derivative of the amount of testing undertaken.

ICU admissions and deaths are the acid test of whether a country has learned to live with Covid.

Then the U.K. had a lot to learn - I think deaths total today was worst for a long long time - the hospitals are already using the ‘overwhelmed’ word on news stories. 

[HolyCowCm]

2 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Lots of older blokes in that same situation mate - they have no choice but to grin and bear it.  

But because of what the Junta has done, many Farangs have left (as they wanted) and there are far far less western Farangs interested in retiring in Thailand.  I include Japan and Korea in that list. - and the Junta does not care for all of them.   Meanwhile Malaysia Philippines Indonesia Singapore all have retired expat programs that are far far more attractive than what Thailand currently imposes on Expats. Those other countries realise that there are economic and social benefits from encouraging retired expats to live long term in their country - the vast majority being older single males. Thailand's expat retirement rules have been moving more and more towards those of China - and I fear that those same rules will also be imposed on married expats in the future. Never ever buy property in Thailand - you can sell a car quickly but you cannot sell a condo quickly, or a house that is not in your name. 

Who knows. Speculation of hearsay is that as long as one is married to a Thai and with family, which is have kids being the extra bonus, then there might be a quiet leniency around that. So thus the theory of Thai wife who can take care of the sick aging husband. The point that always gets me is there is no compassion when a man's Thai wife soul mate passes away as if he doesn't have any kids then he has no hope in hades to stay here and is basically tossed out and destitute. Now this is ruthless as a double hurt slap to his face. I don't know same as the rest of us, but for me, I have kids and a wife here and so the house is just is base ground of home for all of them no matter what happens. A vehicle or two could sell, but only if needed to, and then even still what would the purpose be unless the funds are skinned or low.

For retiree, yes you are probably correct if you are tight on money and budget and know the health insurance is the breaking point or you can't get it or afford it after some time. So time to get out now or plan on staying here in intervals. 

For marriages as I have been through way too many interviews for renewal, it has to be bonafide married as the immigration officer always takes a deep look into the couple sitting in front of them. Seasoned and real couples who get a long just have a look anyone can tell is no act. 

Anyway, I would hope they do something to at least honor marriages and not hit at them too or come up with some sort of plan that allows foreigners to put up a fee of 15k - 20k baht in order to be covered in their health care system. If I ever had to I would move to another near country and just do multiple intervals here covered by travel insurance for their greedy uncaring little needs. At least with travel insurance it is pretty easy to get and can be just throw away.

[HolyCowCm]

3 hours ago, Chaimai said:

The founding father of Singapore did so without corruption.

Thailand is someway behind the 8 ball on that one.

Yeah but it is a country I would also never ever want to live in. Boring and way too many rules! No thanks.

[HolyCowCm]

4 hours ago, Inlandchris said:

“whining and moaning“

I hear that a lot from foreigners on Thailand forums, why? Not happy with life here? Born on the wrong side of the train tracks? Want something for nothing?

just leave and let Thailand have some peace.

My aren't we a bowl of sunshine who loves to kick the cat. Because it is not all black and white for some to stay here as many have made it their home. No one is asking for anything free but many retiree cannot jump up to meet that new order as on fixed incomes or do not qualify because of age or pre-existing conditions and policies being way too high. The public health care hospitals as if you have read from some posting are not that expensive to self fund. 

[farang]

holycowcm,yep,that insurance kills it for me.i even called the thai embassy in usa and ask''what to do when they wont cover your age''?the answere was ,look to another visa type.so i ask,great,which one?answere;;;;;;; they didnt know.i ask why wont you accept my insurance i have now? they say'''''your insurance  has to fill out the thai form  and jump thru more hoops. i checked on that and most usa insurance  compines ''will not'' fill out that form,even if you beg!!!so,i dont know how many are stopped by this crazy insurance crap but im thinking,quite a lot.ive been living there 18 years and now im stuck.cant return to my thai gf  who we have been together for close to 13 years.so seems thai govt dont give a damn. im so sorry this has happened.chock dee to all.

[HolyCowCm]

3 hours ago, MikeTexas said:

I'm pretty sure they know exactly what they are doing and the results this change will have.

As Thailand releases plan after plan to lure back tourists, many complain that the complicated entry process, the rising costs, and constant changes to immigration policy not to the benefit of international travellers seems to be simultaneously pushing away the same expats with money that the country espouses to be courting.

They want short-term tourist that come, spend a lot of money, and then.....go home.  Not the people that come over, live modestly, and stay long-term and enjoy the country.  Of course most of the farang problems seem to come from the short-term tourist so go figure.  Maybe they are tired of seeing the gray haired guys with the 20 somethings on the back of their scooters.    Thailand's official motto should be - "If you want to stay - you have got to pay.  And if you can pay, wait until next year as we raise the rates." 

I've said it before - Vietnam is the next Thailand. The more difficult Thailand makes it to enjoy the country the more attractive Vietnam looks. 

I don't think it has anything to do with young chicks on the back of old guys scooters. These idiots never get out and never see this, and for that matter I really don't see it much and even I live here. Lately, even yesterday I see older Thai guys with their young chicks. Vietnam is also or has been closing up to expats, so either work there or get married is the long term option now, that is unless they turn that around again.

My take on it is xenophobia and only wanting their own kind here to control, or the high rollers or the worker slaves to fuel their economy here. Although they do seem to love their Chinese masters too much.

But you may have a small point, as in if there are no long term foreigners here and only short come and go tourists, then there will be less foreigners coming time and time and time again marrying and being with Thai girls.

[HolyCowCm]

22 minutes ago, farang said:

holycowcm,yep,that insurance kills it for me.i even called the thai embassy in usa and ask''what to do when they wont cover your age''?the answere was ,look to another visa type.so i ask,great,which one?answere;;;;;;; they didnt know.i ask why wont you accept my insurance i have now? they say'''''your insurance  has to fill out the thai form  and jump thru more hoops. i checked on that and most usa insurance  compines ''will not'' fill out that form,even if you beg!!!so,i dont know how many are stopped by this crazy insurance crap but im thinking,quite a lot.ive been living there 18 years and now im stuck.cant return to my thai gf  who we have been together for close to 13 years.so seems thai govt dont give a damn. im so sorry this has happened.chock dee to all.

Look into travel insurance and a multiple entry. You are very correct, they don't give a damn, and this even goes for them and their fellow people.

[JudyQ]

On 10/20/2021 at 11:05 AM, AlexPTY said:

i may be wrong, but it will only apply to new visas, issued by overseas consulates. Will not apply to existing visa extensions 

Yes, you are correct.  For those of us here on O Visa's, we do not have to provide proof of insurance and Thaiger should be clear when they are commenting.  I've seen serveral forums going into panic because people think it means all Retirement Visas