News Forum - Thailand to require 3 million baht insurance for non- OA immigrant visas

[Faz]

30 minutes ago, riclag said:

Agree ! It looks like misinformation .This reporter says OA retirement!

Then they went on to say O space  A retirement!  O visa  based on marriage shouldn’t be confused with a retirement!

I to hope this reporting is wrong and the mods fix it or confirm it’s validity 

Already answered if you read my posts in this topic.

If applying for a Visa based on marriage, only the Non Imm O is available for that reason.
The Non Imm O-A Visa application is purely based on the reason of retirement.

[Malc-Thai]

1 hour ago, AlexPTY said:

i may be wrong, but it will only apply to new visas, issued by overseas consulates. Will not apply to existing visa extensions 

Also some agents get around this issue 

[Malc-Thai]

1 hour ago, DwizzleyMatthews said:

Rumoured elsewhere that extensions ( retirement from an original OA ) before Aug 31st 2022 will be exempt, from 1st Sept 2022 the insurance is required .

( mine is sept 25th )

I believe you can apply for a new visa up to 45 days in some immigration offices I did in salon nahkon before

[Bob20]

3 minutes ago, Faz said:

The proposal has already been approved by the Thai cabinet, meaning this is highly likely, almost certainly to become a requirement when published in the Royal Gazette.
Insurance companies have already been busy with the new policy prices.

It definitely applies to Non Imm O-A Visa applications from Thai Embassies and will almost certainly also apply to annual extensions of stay based on an original Non O-A Visa.

The answer is to either apply for a Non Imm O Visa (subject to availability) from a Thai Embassy, or if on an annual extension of stay exit without a re-entry permit, immediately killing your current permission of stay, then re-enter VE, TV (apply for Non O at Immigration) or enter with a Non O.

Hopefully local borders will open before Sept 2022 to enable the above procedure(s).

As you say "almost certain".

And a year away. And not necessarily a problem.

Those who can afford their own unexpected hospital bills, can also afford the insurance. And if they can't, then no reason to burden Thailand with the bill.

The forum is full of complaints about Thai corruption etc. But those deliberately circumventing the system by applying in Thailand to avoid obtaining a certificate of good behaviour, paying an agency to get an extension of stay without funds in the bank or without insurance, in my opinion do the same and are the cause of ever tighter controls.

[Inlandchris]

Talked with my lawyer, only applies to tourist wanting a one year stay. Existing retired expat is okay. Its hard to understand messages from the government since everything has to be translated and a lot is lost.

[longwood50]

First point, if there was truly a problem with foreigners running up insurance bills and not paying there are other ways to address that.  Personally, I don't believe it.  If I go to a hospital and want service, I am required to pay often in advance for treatment.  A friend of mine who is Thai was fell and had a badly broken leg that required surgery.  She went to Bangkok hospital that required she pay in advance for her treatment.  The simple solution "if there really is a problem" is to require a payment of perhaps 1,000 to 5,000 baht for the visa extension and put that money in a fund to be used to reimburse hospitals for bills incurred by foreigners that go unpaid. 

Are these people that delusional that they can not see the result of this policy.  Any foreigner considering Thailand for retirement will immediately exclude it knowing that eventually they will not be able to obtain or afford the required health insurance.  Those foreigners already here will be forced to liquidate their condo's and homes and move elsewhere causing prices to plummet.  That will impact not just the foreigners but the value of those residences owned by Thai's.  Seeing the value of their home now worth less than what they owe, Thai's will walk away from their homes leaving the banks with huge losses from repossessed properties. 

At the very least, even the consideration of this as a proposal has negative consequences.  Those considering retiring here will now pause or choose someplace else and those already here may out of caution sell their residence and head to exit Thailand seeing that the value of their residence and even their ability to stay here is in peril. 

[NCC1701A]

not one word about this on twitter or from the best source Richard Barrow who is always all over stories like this. 

 

[BlueSphinx]

7 minutes ago, Inlandchris said:

Talked with my lawyer, only applies to tourist wanting a one year stay. Existing retired expat is okay. Its hard to understand messages from the government since everything has to be translated and a lot is lost.

Time to look out for a more knowledgeable lawyer if he told you that it would only be applicable for tourists applying for the change of Visa procedure...

[DwizzleyMatthews]

18 minutes ago, Malc-Thai said:

I believe you can apply for a new visa up to 45 days in some immigration offices I did in salon nahkon before

Yes but your extension date remains the same so doubtful that would work.

[Faz]

26 minutes ago, Malc-Thai said:

I believe you can apply for a new visa up to 45 days in some immigration offices I did in salon nahkon before

You applied to extend your permission of stay, a permit, not a Visa.

[Faz]

28 minutes ago, Inlandchris said:

Talked with my lawyer, only applies to tourist wanting a one year stay. Existing retired expat is okay. Its hard to understand messages from the government since everything has to be translated and a lot is lost.

Give me his name so I can add him to my 'ignore' list.

[ExpatPattaya]

Never been asked for proof of insurance in 4 renewals of my Non Immigrant-O visa.

Have always had 5 million baht medical insurance with Pacific cross here.  Airlines do not let you fly home with certain conditions and of course life threatening accidents or heart attacks must be dealt with immediately.   5000 baht a month is well worth the peace of mind as an expat IMO.  (yes I have a deductible)

 

[BlueSphinx]

2 minutes ago, ExpatPattaya said:

Never been asked for proof of insurance in 4 renewals of my Non Immigrant-O visa.

Have always had 5 million baht medical insurance with Pacific cross here.  Airlines do not let you fly home with certain conditions and of course life threatening accidents or heart attacks must be dealt with immediately.   5000 baht a month is well worth the peace of mind as an expat IMO.  (yes I have a deductible)

You have never been asked for proof of insurance when applying for the 1-year extension of your permission to stay based on your original Non Imm O Visa, for the simple reason that insurance is NOT required for Non Imm O Visa based extension applications.  It is ONLY required when applying for a 1-year extension based on an original Non Imm O-A Visa and when doing this for reason of RETIREMENT. 

[AussieBob]

This is not an unexpected move, and although right now it only applies to Retired O-A Visa, IMO it will be applied to all long-term Expat Visas in the future - both new applications and extensions - it is just a matter of time.  The decision that we had already made that if/when we do move back to Thailand, that we will never buy a property is yet again validated.  I certainly caution any Expat thinking of buying a property to be very careful - you may have to walk away if you cannot afford the annual health insurance premiums. 

I have re-checked the numbers and the policies on offer - and both inpatient and outpatient appears to be required.  The 400K has been replaced with 3 million (min) but the 40K outpatient appears to still be required.  My estimation is that I would have to pay at least 4 million Baht in insurance by the time I reach 80, and then what happens??  All that for an insurance coverage that is limited to 400K per episode/event, and has more preclusions than inclusions, and in a country where the consumer protection laws are basically non-existent, and where my legal rights are basically non-existent, and where in the Courts my chances of claiming and winning against a Thai insurance company are zero.  Not a chance.

I can pay less than $600 (15,000 Baht) for 6 weeks of travel insurance in Thailand for both of us, with an Australian company that is bound by Aust laws and regulations, with full coverage including repatriation, of over $1 million AUD, for any single 'event/emergency'.  That is the type of insurance I am planning to take out while living in Thailand - single event disaster coverage. The wife and I have no intention of making the wealthy owners of Thai insurance companies/franchises even richer for crap expensive insurance policies that are likely to never pay out if the proverbial hits the fan. 

For those doubting that this will be applied to those on O Visa (marriage or work) in the future, I hope you are right, but I fear you are wrong - if the Junta remains in power. The reason (given) for this mandatory insurance being first introduced was because of old Farangs dying in Thai hospitals and no one paying the bill. Certainly most of those might have been retired Farangs, but I believe there was also many married Farangs passing away in the same situation (the family had no money to pay).  I think a change to a more 'business' Government in 2023 will result in these sort of policies being changed, but if there is no change in 2023 then there will be no change in this anti-Farang direction. 

[ThailandBob]

This is a deal killer for me, as I won't be insurable yet have ฿11.3 M in real estate here.

[Inlandchris]

31 minutes ago, Faz said:

Give me his name so I can add him to my 'ignore' list.

Ingonre

[Jason]

The dream of living in Thailand in retirement seems to be getting less and less desirable or affordable . It appears that unless you can insure yourself (which cuts out at 70, when you become too big a risk to insure), you'll need to go back to your country of origin. 

[Inlandchris]

8 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

This is not an unexpected move, and although right now it only applies to Retired O-A Visa, IMO it will be applied to all long-term Expat Visas in the future - both new applications and extensions - it is just a matter of time.  The decision that we had already made that if/when we do move back to Thailand, that we will never buy a property is yet again validated.  I certainly caution any Expat thinking of buying a property to be very careful - you may have to walk away if you cannot afford the annual health insurance premiums. 

I have re-checked the numbers and the policies on offer - and both inpatient and outpatient appears to be required.  The 400K has been replaced with 3 million (min) but the 40K outpatient appears to still be required.  My estimation is that I would have to pay at least 4 million Baht in insurance by the time I reach 80, and then what happens??  All that for an insurance coverage that is limited to 400K per episode/event, and has more preclusions than inclusions, and in a country where the consumer protection laws are basically non-existent, and where my legal rights are basically non-existent, and where in the Courts my chances of claiming and winning against a Thai insurance company are zero.  Not a chance.

I can pay less than $600 (15,000 Baht) for 6 weeks of travel insurance in Thailand for both of us, with an Australian company that is bound by Aust laws and regulations, with full coverage including repatriation, of over $1 million AUD, for any single 'event/emergency'.  That is the type of insurance I am planning to take out while living in Thailand - single event disaster coverage. The wife and I have no intention of making the wealthy owners of Thai insurance companies/franchises even richer for crap expensive insurance policies that are likely to never pay out if the proverbial hits the fan. 

For those doubting that this will be applied to those on O Visa (marriage or work) in the future, I hope you are right, but I fear you are wrong - if the Junta remains in power. The reason (given) for this mandatory insurance being first introduced was because of old Farangs dying in Thai hospitals and no one paying the bill. Certainly most of those might have been retired Farangs, but I believe there was also many married Farangs passing away in the same situation (the family had no money to pay).  I think a change to a more 'business' Government in 2023 will result in these sort of policies being changed, but if there is no change in 2023 then there will be no change in this anti-Farang direction. 

“IMO”=guess

[AussieBob]

21 minutes ago, ExpatPattaya said:

Never been asked for proof of insurance in 4 renewals of my Non Immigrant-O visa.

Have always had 5 million baht medical insurance with Pacific cross here.  Airlines do not let you fly home with certain conditions and of course life threatening accidents or heart attacks must be dealt with immediately.   5000 baht a month is well worth the peace of mind as an expat IMO.  (yes I have a deductible)

That is true as already pointed out it does not apply (yet) for O Visa - only for O-A Visa. Bujt if/when it does the problem is that your existing policy will be non-compliant because it does not cover outpatient expenses  and well as inpatient expenses.  It is the outpatient coverage that makes the mandatory insurance plans so expensive (and so profitable).  Plus, as far as I am aware your current policy does not have a maximum coverage of only 400K per event - I believe that it is a much higher per event coverage (I have received a quote from Pacific Cross before, and they are recommended by Expats I know).  The insurance coverage required for O-A Visas is a huge ripoff and IMO is a scam - it is no co-incidence that the inpatient coverage has been (allegedly) increased to 3 Million Baht - that matches the $100,000 USD mandatory Covid coverage currently required for tourists visiting Thailand (and will probably remain in place for a long long time). 

 

[ThailandBob]

8 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I believe there was also many married Farangs passing away in the same situation (the family had no money to pay).

I'd love to see the actual statistics for this. It's a rounding error on most hospitals' balance sheets.

[AussieBob]

4 minutes ago, ThailandBob said:

This is a deal killer for me, as I won't be insurable yet have ฿11.3 M in real estate here.

Did you say 11.3M or 1.3M ??   Sorry - bad joke.  Maybe time to diversify your asset portfolio?  I hear there are quite a few Chinese investors looking to extract/move some money overseas and Thailand is one of their 'welcome' destinations.  Sorry - another bad joke. 

[Bob20]

14 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

This is not an unexpected move, and although right now it only applies to Retired O-A Visa, IMO it will be applied to all long-term Expat Visas in the future - both new applications and extensions - it is just a matter of time.  The decision that we had already made that if/when we do move back to Thailand, that we will never buy a property is yet again validated.  I certainly caution any Expat thinking of buying a property to be very careful - you may have to walk away if you cannot afford the annual health insurance premiums. 

I have re-checked the numbers and the policies on offer - and both inpatient and outpatient appears to be required.  The 400K has been replaced with 3 million (min) but the 40K outpatient appears to still be required.  My estimation is that I would have to pay at least 4 million Baht in insurance by the time I reach 80, and then what happens??  All that for an insurance coverage that is limited to 400K per episode/event, and has more preclusions than inclusions, and in a country where the consumer protection laws are basically non-existent, and where my legal rights are basically non-existent, and where in the Courts my chances of claiming and winning against a Thai insurance company are zero.  Not a chance.

I can pay less than $600 (15,000 Baht) for 6 weeks of travel insurance in Thailand for both of us, with an Australian company that is bound by Aust laws and regulations, with full coverage including repatriation, of over $1 million AUD, for any single 'event/emergency'.  That is the type of insurance I am planning to take out while living in Thailand - single event disaster coverage. The wife and I have no intention of making the wealthy owners of Thai insurance companies/franchises even richer for crap expensive insurance policies that are likely to never pay out if the proverbial hits the fan. 

For those doubting that this will be applied to those on O Visa (marriage or work) in the future, I hope you are right, but I fear you are wrong - if the Junta remains in power. The reason (given) for this mandatory insurance being first introduced was because of old Farangs dying in Thai hospitals and no one paying the bill. Certainly most of those might have been retired Farangs, but I believe there was also many married Farangs passing away in the same situation (the family had no money to pay).  I think a change to a more 'business' Government in 2023 will result in these sort of policies being changed, but if there is no change in 2023 then there will be no change in this anti-Farang direction. 

It doesn't say that it has to be Thai insurance. And if you have insurance 400/40k (already now enforced) then why shouldn't you be able to get 3m coverage? Let's not get carried away yet.

[AussieBob]

Just now, ThailandBob said:

I'd love to see the actual statistics for this. It's a rounding error on most hospitals' balance sheets.

There was a lot of media stories some years ago - many hospitals complained - they sent a delegation to see the Junta Govt about losing money over the period of many previous years.  After 'consultation' with the Thai health insurance industry, the Junta announced the mandatory insurance for O-A Visas.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/advanced/217882/destitute-foreigners-and-thailand-hospitals

Additionally, there has been a lot of uninsured tourists visiting Thailand and ending up costing the hospitals (and themselves) a lot of money.  This issue has become a big one too for many years - and the flow on the long term Expats is inevitable. 

UK manhttps://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2018/10/24/uk-man-stranded-in-thailand-facing-a-100000-medical-bill-may-be-rescued-by-crowd-funding-success/

 

[HolyCowCm]

4 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

This is not an unexpected move, and although right now it only applies to Retired O-A Visa, IMO it will be applied to all long-term Expat Visas in the future - both new applications and extensions - it is just a matter of time.  The decision that we had already made that if/when we do move back to Thailand, that we will never buy a property is yet again validated.  I certainly caution any Expat thinking of buying a property to be very careful - you may have to walk away if you cannot afford the annual health insurance premiums. 

I have re-checked the numbers and the policies on offer - and both inpatient and outpatient appears to be required.  The 400K has been replaced with 3 million (min) but the 40K outpatient appears to still be required.  My estimation is that I would have to pay at least 4 million Baht in insurance by the time I reach 80, and then what happens??  All that for an insurance coverage that is limited to 400K per episode/event, and has more preclusions than inclusions, and in a country where the consumer protection laws are basically non-existent, and where my legal rights are basically non-existent, and where in the Courts my chances of claiming and winning against a Thai insurance company are zero.  Not a chance.

I can pay less than $600 (15,000 Baht) for 6 weeks of travel insurance in Thailand for both of us, with an Australian company that is bound by Aust laws and regulations, with full coverage including repatriation, of over $1 million AUD, for any single 'event/emergency'.  That is the type of insurance I am planning to take out while living in Thailand - single event disaster coverage. The wife and I have no intention of making the wealthy owners of Thai insurance companies/franchises even richer for crap expensive insurance policies that are likely to never pay out if the proverbial hits the fan. 

For those doubting that this will be applied to those on O Visa (marriage or work) in the future, I hope you are right, but I fear you are wrong - if the Junta remains in power. The reason (given) for this mandatory insurance being first introduced was because of old Farangs dying in Thai hospitals and no one paying the bill. Certainly most of those might have been retired Farangs, but I believe there was also many married Farangs passing away in the same situation (the family had no money to pay).  I think a change to a more 'business' Government in 2023 will result in these sort of policies being changed, but if there is no change in 2023 then there will be no change in this anti-Farang direction. 

Yeah who knows, but if they had any smarts to them then they would just apply a universal annual fee of maybe 10k or 20k to visa holders or ones that will renew at the immigration office. Or just require an additional 1 million to be held in the bank? Anything over 1 million in one single bank is absurd as no guarantee over that amount. For me any one of these options is fine, and to date I already just keep close to USD $50k in my banks already which includes the 400k as not on a retirement. 

[AussieBob]

10 minutes ago, Inlandchris said:

“IMO”=guess

Opinion. Based on many years of observation and first hand experience.