News Forum - End of skytrain pass will impact Bangkok condo market

[Marc26]

3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

But nobody's raising anything to 7k baht!

Even if someone travels from one end of the line and back every working day for a month it's still a maximum of 2,288 baht per month.

The only people affected will be those who make multiple trips every day, abusing the system at the expense of normal commuters.

So why is the article saying it could go from 3k to 7k?

 

I don't have a clue what it costs

Was just going by the article 

[Stonker]

9 hours ago, Marc26 said:

The lines are owned by the Government (BMA) and operated as a concession 

So not exactly privately owned 

Fair comment, which is why I said that it's "up to the BMA to regulate it or subsidise it, not up to the BTS to act as a charity or to support condo prices" which those jumping on the outrage / troll / flaming bus appear to have ignored.

For those who still can't see past the hype and the uninformed outrage:

The maximum monthly fare for anyone making a return trip every working day from one end of the line to the other, from the outskirts on one side of the city to the other, remains 2,288 baht.

No commuter making one return trip every working day will pay 7,000 baht per month. The most a return trip commuter will pay remains between 832 and 2,288 baht.

The BTS still has a number of concessionary passes, including the students' pass, pensioners' pass, and a day pass.

The only people affected by this will be those making multiple short unlimited trips, abusing the system, with their tickets subsidised by the normal commuter.

Those are the rather boring facts, very easily verified.

 

[Stonker]

26 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

So why is the article saying it could go from 3k to 7k?

I don't have a clue what it costs

Was just going by the article 

Evidently a BIG mistake .

Spend two minutes, maybe less and certainly  less than you and others have spent on the outrage bus over this, and you'll find that it's all complete hype, making up an issue which doesn't exist.

For someone to spend 7k a month on the BTS they'd have to make between 160 and 440 trips on the BTS a month .

"Why" does the article say that?

Pass (but not a BTS pass).

[Marc26]

8 hours ago, Stonker said:

Evidently a BIG mistake .

Spend two minutes, maybe less and certainly  less than you and others have spent on the outrage bus over this, and you'll find that it's all complete hype, making up an issue which doesn't exist.

For someone to spend 7k a month on the BTS they'd have to make between 160 and 440 trips on the BTS a month .

"Why" does the article say that?

Pass (but not a BTS pass).

 

I commented on a story that said the pass cost as much as 3k baht

I also commented on public transportation in a general sense

 

So, as I told you in another thread

Beat it, I'm not looking for a pissing match

Which seems to be the only thing you do on here 

[Stonker]

55 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

So, as I told you in another thread

Beat it, I'm not looking for a pissing match

Which seems to be the only thing you do on here 

I'm just trying to help you and others be better informed, with what are easily verifiable facts, so that you can make reasonably informed observations and, where vaccinations and vaccine records and other issues are concerned, better decisions so that you can get what you want.

If you're not interested in that, fine, but there's no need to be abusive about it.

[HiuMak]

5 hours ago, Stonker said:

Fair enough, but if you look at the actual ticket prices the hype over "7,000 THB" is completely fabricated.

BTS standard single tickets cost between 16 and 44 baht one way. Even taking a worst case of someone making two trips for six days a week from one end of the line to the other  (which is very unlikely given the locations) that's still a maximum of 2,288 baht per month.

A more reasonable figure, for two x 20 baht trips per day from the outskirts into the centre, would be 1,040 baht.

Removing the 30 day tickets, particularly the one for unlimited short trips, won't affect those just making a normal one return trip a day at all - the only people affected will be those who were abusing the system and making multiple trips.

That makes more sense. Thanks Stonker.

I cannot imagine one has to pay 7000 THB just to commute. Looks like the article is an exxaggeration on the amount.

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, HiuMak said:

That makes more sense. Thanks Stonker.

I cannot imagine one has to pay 7000 THB just to commute. Looks like the article is an exxaggeration on the amount.

Thank you, genuinely - that goes some way to restoring my faith in the forum as a source for informed and informative comment, so I'm grateful to you for that.

 

[Marc26]

8 hours ago, Stonker said:

I'm just trying to help you and others be better informed, with what are easily verifiable facts, so that you can make reasonably informed observations and, where vaccinations and vaccine records and other issues are concerned, better decisions so that you can get what you want.

If you're not interested in that, fine, but there's no need to be abusive about it.

The proper information is great, thanks

But if you actually read what I wrote, there was no outrage and my posts were more inline with what you were saying

But again, looks like you were more interested in a pissing match anyways.....

[bvbeyond]

On 10/18/2021 at 7:59 PM, Stonker said:

But nobody's raising anything to 7k baht!

Even if someone travels from one end of the line and back every working day for a month it's still a maximum of 2,288 baht per month.

Mr. Stonker, unfortunately unless quoting senior citizen fares your figures appear off. Using the Bangkok BTS website here were my findings.

A friend lives in a condo near Bang Wa (S12) and commutes to work near National Stadium (W1). Fare ฿59. If taken every day monthly ((59x2)x30) that alone is ฿3540/mo and higher than your estimate.

My friend like many people after work runs errands, pursues personal interests, and visits friends and family. For simplicity lets just say he goes after work each day to Krungthon Buri (S7) to run errands and socialize.  The one way price from Bang Wa (S12) is ฿31.  Two ways 30 days a month makes it ฿1860/mo.

Our total here is ฿5,400/mo in BTS fares.

While not every system offers a unlimited monthly pass, here are some that do:

•  Los Angeles Metro(USD)100 or ฿3,300
•  Montreal STM (CD)90.50 or ฿2450
•  Paris Metro is 75€ or ฿2900
•  Athens Metro 30€ or ฿1200
•  Singapore MRT (SD)128 or ฿3180
•  Tokyo Metro 17,000 yen or ฿5050.

For myself, when in Bangkok I love boarding a nice cool BTS train to avoid rush hour traffic.

While it is not the most expensive metro I've ridden, its not the least. Its rates are similar to Singapore's MRT. However the average salary in Singapore is higher than Bangkok.  So I'd say the rates feel high taking that into consideration.

My feel here is BTS ridership was down earlier this year due to the pandemic, this has likely created some economic challenges for the company.  BTS for better or worse is a company vs a government owned agency.  A well-funded government agency might willingly subsidize an operational loss to keep fares low in order to combat traffic and pollution, for example.  A corporation however lacks such funding and is stuck balancing the books, so changing fares structures, and ending a program would be one way to do that.

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, bvbeyond said:

Mr. Stonker, unfortunately unless quoting senior citizen fares your figures appear off. Using the Bangkok BTS website here were my findings.

A friend lives in a condo near Bang Wa (S12) and commutes to work near National Stadium (W1). Fare ฿59. If taken every day monthly ((59x2)x30) that alone is ฿3540/mo and higher than your estimate.

My friend like many people after work runs errands, pursues personal interests, and visits friends and family. For simplicity lets just say he goes after work each day to Krungthon Buri (S7) to run errands and socialize.  The one way price from Bang Wa (S12) is ฿31.  Two ways 30 days a month makes it ฿1860/mo.

Our total here is ฿5,400/mo in BTS fares.

While not every system offers a unlimited monthly pass, here are some that do:

•  Los Angeles Metro(USD)100 or ฿3,300
•  Montreal STM (CD)90.50 or ฿2450
•  Paris Metro is 75€ or ฿2900
•  Athens Metro 30€ or ฿1200
•  Singapore MRT (SD)128 or ฿3180
•  Tokyo Metro 17,000 yen or ฿5050.

For myself, when in Bangkok I love boarding a nice cool BTS train to avoid rush hour traffic.

While it is not the most expensive metro I've ridden, its not the least. Its rates are similar to Singapore's MRT. However the average salary in Singapore is higher than Bangkok.  So I'd say the rates feel high taking that into consideration.

My feel here is BTS ridership was down earlier this year due to the pandemic, this has likely created some economic challenges for the company.  BTS for better or worse is a company vs a government owned agency.  A well-funded government agency might willingly subsidize an operational loss to keep fares low in order to combat traffic and pollution, for example.  A corporation however lacks such funding and is stuck balancing the books, so changing fares structures, and ending a program would be one way to do that.

I'm not, nor have I been, comparing the prices to other countries as that's not the point at issue here which is how much extra the end of 30 day tickets will cost.

You're quite correct that the maximum far has gone up from 44 baht to 59 baht - my mistake, I must have been looking at the MRT, for which I apologise, and thank you for correcting me.

That would take the cost of your friend's commute, from one end of the Silom line to the other, over a six day working week, to 3,068 baht per month, rather than the 2,288 baht I'd thought - the maximum fare possible for a commute, and half of the "6,000 - 7,000 baht per month" claimed in the article.

If your friend wants to go on elsewhere to "run errands and socialize" every day, particularly as it seems to be at lunchtime rather than after work as he's apparently getting out on his way back and so making four trips every day, I'd suggest that's not part of his commute to work so he's abusing the system if he thinks others using the BTS should subsidise his fares so that he can  "run errands and socialize".

I'm not nit-picking, it's just that that seems beyond the scope of the article to me.

I'm not comparing prices with other countries as that would involve way too many variables (distances, investment by the companies, subsidies by the city authorities, running costs, etc).

All I'm doing is pointing out that the  "6,000 - 7,000 baht per month" claimed in the article is a massive exaggeration - it's not a maximum of 2,288 per month as I'd thought, and I apologize for the mistake and thanks for correcting me, but even the absolute maximum of 3,068 baht for a commute from one end of the line to the other is unusual and less than half the amount claimed, and I find it very hard to believe that the small actual amount, for a very few commuters, will make the difference to condo prices claimed.

 

[Marc26]

On 10/18/2021 at 7:52 PM, Stonker said:

Fair enough, but if you look at the actual ticket prices the hype over "7,000 THB" is completely fabricated.

BTS standard single tickets cost between 16 and 44 baht one way. Even taking a worst case of someone making two trips for six days a week from one end of the line to the other  (which is very unlikely given the locations) that's still a maximum of 2,288 baht per month.

A more reasonable figure, for two x 20 baht trips per day from the outskirts into the centre, would be 1,040 baht.

Removing the 30 day tickets, particularly the one for unlimited short trips, won't affect those just making a normal one return trip a day at all - the only people affected will be those who were abusing the system and making multiple trips.

 

 

 

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, Stonker said:

I'm not, nor have I been, comparing the prices to other countries as that's not the point at issue here which is how much extra the end of 30 day tickets will cost.

You're quite correct that the maximum far has gone up from 44 baht to 59 baht - my mistake, I must have been looking at the MRT, for which I apologise, and thank you for correcting me.

That would take the cost of your friend's commute, from one end of the Silom line to the other, over a six day working week, to 3,068 baht per month, rather than the 2,288 baht I'd thought - the maximum fare possible for a commute, and half of the "6,000 - 7,000 baht per month" claimed in the article.

If your friend wants to go on elsewhere to "run errands and socialize" every day, particularly as it seems to be at lunchtime rather than after work as he's apparently getting out on his way back and so making four trips every day, I'd suggest that's not part of his commute to work so he's abusing the system if he thinks others using the BTS should subsidise his fares so that he can  "run errands and socialize".

I'm not nit-picking, it's just that that seems beyond the scope of the article to me.

I'm not comparing prices with other countries as that would involve way too many variables (distances, investment by the companies, subsidies by the city authorities, running costs, etc).

All I'm doing is pointing out that the  "6,000 - 7,000 baht per month" claimed in the article is a massive exaggeration - it's not a maximum of 2,288 per month as I'd thought, and I apologize for the mistake and thanks for correcting me, but even the absolute maximum of 3,068 baht for a commute from one end of the line to the other is unusual and less than half the amount claimed, and I find it very hard to believe that the small actual amount, for a very few commuters, will make the difference to condo prices claimed.

 

The 7k baht figure comes into play because they currently aren't charging for sections of the new lines

So if they then started charging for those lines(which the operator is demanding they do), the proposed price could raise to that

Highly doubtful it would go that far up though

I find the financial dynamic fascinating.

The city supposedly owes the operator 12bil baht

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2190311/btsc-sues-city-hall-over-debt

 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

The 7k baht figure comes into play because they currently aren't charging for sections of the new lines

So if they then started charging for those lines(which the operator is demanding they do), the proposed price could raise to that

Highly doubtful it would go that far up though

I find the financial dynamic fascinating.

The city supposedly owes the operator 12bil baht

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2190311/btsc-sues-city-hall-over-debt

Sorry, but that's got nothing to do with anything I've said, and there's no reference to it in the article, so I can't really comment. 

[HiuMak]

18 hours ago, bvbeyond said:

Our total here is ฿5,400/mo in BTS fares.

While not every system offers a unlimited monthly pass, here are some that do:

•  Los Angeles Metro(USD)100 or ฿3,300
•  Montreal STM (CD)90.50 or ฿2450
•  Paris Metro is 75€ or ฿2900
•  Athens Metro 30€ or ฿1200
•  Singapore MRT (SD)128 or ฿3180
•  Tokyo Metro 17,000 yen or ฿5050.

Bangkok cost of living is higher than Tokyo .

What happen to public service?

[Guest1]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:31 AM, Stonker said:

BTS has only ended one type of pass (the 30 day pass) as it was being abused (apparently by delivery and messenger services, according to Thai social media) and making a loss to the detriment of the service and the rest of the paying public.

That is always a strange reason. Abusing it, by having a 30 day pass, and using it more as twice a day? Come on, the trains are driving anyway! If one is driving every hour, instead twice in 12, is not creating any more train to drive. So the only reason, they cancelling it, is that they  expect the people, who 'abused it" (Was there anything in the fine print?), are still going to use it. And if they do not, the people WHO NOT ABUSED it, but HAVE to use it, will have to cover the lost money, b/c they pay now double!

So why not change it to a "max 4 rides/day" ticket? Plus extra rides cost 50% of the normal price? It is a rabbit card, so make it a 30 day PLUS money on it. To charge for every ride over 4/day, 28/week?

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

End of skytrain pass will impact Bangkok condo …..
Only if it comes off the rails …. And takes out a condo or two!