News Forum - Nearly 70,000 foreigners register for vaccines on expatvac site

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, harry1 said:

we were mislead to believe that anyone over 60 years of age will get 2 shots of AZ as pm ocha said sinovac was not suitable for over 60s,yet the vaccine when l made appointment and they have my info,they only offered sinovac,so l declined as its not recognised as being fully vaccine by international travel.

When was this?

Sinovac was only "not suitable for over 60's" initially, back in February and March, after that it was used across all age groups.

Nobody registered on expatvac over 60 was "offered sinovac", ALL were offered Pfizer (recommended) or Astra Zeneca.

1 hour ago, harry1 said:

l no longer trust the vaccine program here and the nonsense reporting

 I don't want to be unsympathetic, but if you don't keep up to date with official announcements, widely reported in the Thai and English language media, and you get distracted by some of the "nonsense reporting" and equally nonsense comments, you can't blame the "vaccine programme" for that, certainly for foreigners who have been considerably better served than Thais,  and certainly in the last three months.

IF YOU'RE OVER 60 AND NOT REGISTERED ON THE EXPATVAC SITE, YOU SHOULD REGISTER NOW, AND YOU WILL GET PFIZER.

[Bob20]

33 minutes ago, Stonker said:

It shouldn't, since there's a gap of one month between jabs for Pfizer, but a gap of up to 12 weeks between AZ jabs for maximum efficacy.

12 weeks takes you back to 20 July from when the article / data was published, and the site only opened and registration only started on 1 August, so it would be impossible for everyone to be fully jabbed by now.

Gap for Pfizer is 3 weeks, and expatvac site uses only Pfizer. That was what the 150k reserved doses for foreigners from the US donation were for and 69k*2 doesn't exceed that. Registrations were already at 35.455 by 6 August, so I still think it's quite slow (opinion) and certainly not "impossible" (fact) to have done all but the most recent (late) registrations by making wrong assumptions.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

Therapeutics will become the key because it's been shown that vaccinated people can still get the disease and pass it on

That's your view.  None of the leading experts, anywhere, agree with you as the only therapeutic approved so far only has a 50% success rate against mild to moderate cases while vaccinations give a 95%+ success rate against death and hospitalisation.

[Stonker]

6 hours ago, LoongFred said:

They could have done better with procurement but initially the counts were under control.

Please.

 

In my opinion, I do not accept that comments like "could have done better" and "didn't do too bad" are suitable excuses for a government who did an appalling job of vaccine procurement, nor excused by comments like "initially the counts were under control" and "so probably market driven to some extent".

We're talking about  government ministers responsible for running the country.

6 hours ago, LoongFred said:

It will never be fast enough for impatient people, but I won't complain.

I doubt the families of the 18,000+ who've died from Covid only this year in Thailand, and the near 2 million Covid cases, many of whom were serious and hospitalised in ICUs on ventilators, who will never fully recover, the vast majority of whom could have been asymptomatic and unaffected if the government had done a decent job of vaccine procurement and roll out, would be too impressed at being labelled "impatient".

I'm the one who's normally labelled an apologist for Thailand, but you take it to a whole new level, just because the district nurse was a "very nice gal" and your own vaccination went "smoothly" at the hospital.

Your attitude to the Thais who've suffered and died because of this government's incompetent procurement programme, just because "thing worked out OK" for you is simply nauseating.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Smithydog
Removed perceived offensive remark.

[LoongFred]

3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

That's your view.  None of the leading experts, anywhere, agree with you as the only therapeutic approved so far only has a 50% success rate against mild to moderate cases while vaccinations give a 95%+ success rate against death and hospitalisation.

It's not one or the other. The vaccines and therapeutics need to both be used. When breakthrough infections occur we need next steps. We are seeing more and more breakthrough infections, thankfully many are less serious and/or asymptomatic, but these infections are still contagious.

Think about the AIDS crisis. When therapeutics were developed and became affordable things changed.

What we've learned is that covid most likely won't die out completely, so we need to develop many tools

Actually some therapeutics are getting better, especially the monoclonal antibody based ones. We also need to be willing to try things that are considered safe, such as repurposing drugs. Even 50% effectiveness is better than zero.

[Stonker]

20 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Gap for Pfizer is 3 weeks, and expatvac site uses only Pfizer.

No, Pfizer is 3 to 4 weeks, and the expatvac site does NOT use "only Pfizer".

That's 100% wrong, wildly misleading, and totally untrue.  The expatvac site is for "foreigners of any age group and any location within Thailand to register to receive their vaccination".

It only uses Pfizer for expats who are eligible by age or for medical reasons, plus others at their discretion - generally those over 40.

The suggestion that any foreigner, such as @gummy's kids at CMU, can register on expatvac and they will get Pfizer is WRONG - they won't.

I've tried to avoid avoided naming names for those here  who are well intentioned but who give advice  which is wildly inaccurate and has contributed to some on this site getting vaccines which are considerably less effective than they could have had, but that's what giving information which is wrong, such as yours, does.

[Stonker]

11 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

It's not one or the other. The vaccines and therapeutics need to both be used. When breakthrough infections occur we need next steps. We are seeing more and more breakthrough infections, thankfully many are less serious and/or asymptomatic, but these infections are still contagious.

Think about the AIDS crisis. When therapeutics were developed and became affordable things changed.

What we've learned is that covid most likely won't die out completely, so we need to develop many tools

Actually some therapeutics are getting better, especially the monoclonal antibody based ones. We also need to be willing to try things that are considered safe, such as repurposing drugs. Even 50% effectiveness is better than zero.

As I said, that's your view but none of the world's experts agree with you and they see mass vaccination as the only solution.

You're obviously at liberty to disagree with them, but I don't think this thread is the place to do so.

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, ChristyS said:

I  got Sinovac for the first dose at the  end  of August, then AZ  three weeks later - hopefully a full dosing but it  was so painless, they may have used the new sub-cutaneous method that only uses 20 % of the full  dose. 

No, that's not possible.

That only started on 24 September, which was the start of the first phase with foreigners in a second phase, which would have been after you had your second dose, and it was / is only for a third "booster" dose, not for a second dose.

[LoongFred]

2 minutes ago, Stonker said:

As I said, that's your view but none of the world's experts agree with you and they see mass vaccination as the only solution.

You're obviously at liberty to disagree with them, but I don't think this thread is the place to do so.

I don't think you qualify as an expert or a medical professional. I do read medical journals and try to keep up to date. It's not a one size or solution approach that's likely to work. 

What we've learned from Delta, is we need alternatives. 

[Stonker]

8 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

I don't think you qualify as an expert or a medical professional.

I've not claimed to be one, although FWIW I was a "medical professional", by training and qualification if not by trade - I simply said that none of the world's experts agree with you.

If you disagree, give a link to any instead of just banging on with your views here, where they are badly uninformed, insulting and offensive to the Thais who've suffered and died as a result of government incompetence over vaccine procurement, as well as completely off topic.

8 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

I do read medical journals and try to keep up to date.

Quite possibly, but it doesn't show.

[LoongFred]

27 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Please.

"could have done better" and "didn't do too bad" is what you get on a six year old's school report so they don't get discouraged, not an excuse for a government to do an appalling job of vaccine procurement, excused by you by "initially the counts were under control" and "so probably market driven to some extent".

We're not talking about six year olds, but government ministers responsibel for running the country.

I doubt the families of the 18,000+ who've died from Covid only this year in Thailand, and the near 2 million Covid cases, many of whom were serious and hospitalised in ICUs on ventilators, who will never fully recover, the vast majority of whom could have been asymptomatic and unaffected if the government had done a decent job of vaccine procurement and roll out, would be too impressed at being labelled "impatient".

I'm the one who's normally labelled an apologist for Thailand, but you take it to a whole new level, just because the district nurse was a "very nice gal" and your own vaccination went "smoothly" at the hospital.

Your attitude to the Thais who've suffered and died because of this government's incompetent procurement programme, just because "thing worked out OK" for you is simply nauseating.

My comments were geared to this general audience. I can write in more scientific terms but it may be lost by others on this forum. 

I have no desire getting into a "flame" war over this. 

I've said my piece and will leave it at that.

BTW what were the death rates in the UK? I think Thai medical professional have done pretty good in comparison. 

 

[Rookiescot]

I found the expatvac process to be excellent.

Registered, received an automated response tell me I had successfully registered and several weeks later (I forget how many but was around 6 or 7) I got a message telling me I had an appointment in a weeks time.

Arrived to get my injection expecting utter chaos and mayhem but all us foreigners were placed in the one waiting area separate from the Thais and given a bottle of water.

As a group we were called forward and given instructions in English as to what we should do. Basically this meant moving through various stations numbered 1 to 7 where different things were checked or information taken. The last station was where you got jabbed. All the foreigners got Pfizer. From arriving to leaving took 1 hour 30 mins and that includes the 30 mins you had to sit in a room and wait before being allowed to leave.

On my way out I was handed some paracetamol. On my way out after the second jab I was also handed my vaccine passport. Free.

The ONLY minor gripe I have was that there was no communication between having been told I had registered to being given my appointment. I think they could have sent out an email saying "Don't worry we haven't forgotten about you and will be in touch again soon".

I was almost at the point of trying another way of getting vaccinated when my appointment arrived because I was starting to think exactly that.

[LoongFred]

1 minute ago, Stonker said:

I've never claimed to be one, although FWIW I was a "medical professional", by training if not by trade - I simply said that none of the world's experts agree with you.

If you disagree, give a link to any instead of just banging on with your views here, where they are badly uninformed, insulting and offensive to the Thais who've suffered and died as a result of government incompetence over vaccine procurement, as well as completely off topic.

Quite possibly, but it doesn't show.

I'm both a medical professional but training and by trade.  I don't need your acceptance or approval, though.

[Stonker]

6 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

BTW what were the death rates in the UK? I think Thai medical professional have done pretty good in comparison. 

What do you mean by "death rates"?

The rates of those dying per capita?

The rates of those dying who'd tested positive for Covid?

The rates of those dying hospitalised with Covid?

As a supposed "medical professional by training and by trade" I would have expected you to know the difference, as I would have expected you to know the difference between 'procurement', 'roll out', and 'delivery'.

 

[LoongFred]

6 minutes ago, Stonker said:

What do you mean by "death rates"?

The rates of those dying per capita?

The rates of those dying who'd tested positive for Covid?

The rates of those dying hospitalised with Covid?

As a supposed "medical professional by training and by trade" I would have expected you to know the difference, as I would have expected you to know the difference between 'procurement', 'roll out', and 'delivery'.

Not worthy of my comments or time.

Take your flame war elsewhere. 

[Stonker]

21 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I found the expatvac process to be excellent.

Registered, received an automated response tell me I had successfully registered and several weeks later (I forget how many but was around 6 or 7) I got a message telling me I had an appointment in a weeks time.

Arrived to get my injection expecting utter chaos and mayhem but all us foreigners were placed in the one waiting area separate from the Thais and given a bottle of water.

As a group we were called forward and given instructions in English as to what we should do. Basically this meant moving through various stations numbered 1 to 7 where different things were checked or information taken. The last station was where you got jabbed. All the foreigners got Pfizer. From arriving to leaving took 1 hour 30 mins and that includes the 30 mins you had to sit in a room and wait before being allowed to leave.

On my way out I was handed some paracetamol. On my way out after the second jab I was also handed my vaccine passport. Free.

The ONLY minor gripe I have was that there was no communication between having been told I had registered to being given my appointment. I think they could have sent out an email saying "Don't worry we haven't forgotten about you and will be in touch again soon".

I was almost at the point of trying another way of getting vaccinated when my appointment arrived because I was starting to think exactly that.

Agreed absolutely, 100% - I think the delivery, particularly for expatvac which after all is what this thread is about, has been excellent if not faultless (my only gripe was the same as yours, that there was no way of checking progress / that you hadn't been forgotten).

The Thai medical satff have excelled themselves, as in my experience they always do.

My gripe is with the procurement and roll out, which was down to governmental / political issues.

[Bob20]

29 minutes ago, Stonker said:

 

 

Well, here we go again  

No, Pfizer is 3 to 4 weeks, and the expatvac site does NOT use "only Pfizer".

Semantics as in Thailand they had mostly 20 days between 1st and 2nd jab, voiding your argument of extra delay as they don't even respect the full 3 weeks. Ergo they could do it quicker, not slower. My information that expatvac uses other vaccines as well differs from yours:

It only uses Pfizer for expats who are eligible by age or for medical reasons, plus others at their discretion - generally those over 40.

No, they do not. I have visited several vaccination events (not only my own) and they've always jabbed only Pfizer for expatvac registrants in all age groups and health conditions. Besides, just about everyone would be eligible for Pfizer, as AZ use is far more restricted. The only AZ lines I have seen at expatvac locations (the event not always being exclusive to expatvac subscribers) were specifically marked for Thai nationals, who obviously did not register with expatvac.

The suggestion that any foreigner, such as @gummy's kids at CMU, can register on expatvac and they will get Pfizer is WRONG - they won't.

TBH, I don't know about @gummy 's kids, but if they are included in the 69k registrations, I would be interested to know if they get something else than Pfizer, as it would be a gross mistake to waste part of the reserved 150k doses*.

*We know from the batch numbers and expiration date (reported here previously) that they are still using the donated doses from 31 July for expatvac events, so they have truly been reserved. Not used up and replaced with newly supplied batches.

 

[Stonker]

32 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I found the expatvac process to be excellent.

Registered, received an automated response tell me I had successfully registered and several weeks later (I forget how many but was around 6 or 7) I got a message telling me I had an appointment in a weeks time.

Arrived to get my injection expecting utter chaos and mayhem but all us foreigners were placed in the one waiting area separate from the Thais and given a bottle of water.

As a group we were called forward and given instructions in English as to what we should do. Basically this meant moving through various stations numbered 1 to 7 where different things were checked or information taken. The last station was where you got jabbed. All the foreigners got Pfizer. From arriving to leaving took 1 hour 30 mins and that includes the 30 mins you had to sit in a room and wait before being allowed to leave.

On my way out I was handed some paracetamol. On my way out after the second jab I was also handed my vaccine passport. Free.

The ONLY minor gripe I have was that there was no communication between having been told I had registered to being given my appointment. I think they could have sent out an email saying "Don't worry we haven't forgotten about you and will be in touch again soon".

I was almost at the point of trying another way of getting vaccinated when my appointment arrived because I was starting to think exactly that.

Agreed absolutely, 100% - I think the delivery, particularly for expatvac which after all is what this thread is about, has been excellent if not faultless (my only gripe was the same as yours, that there was no way of checking progress / that you hadn't been forgotten).

The Thai medical satff have excelled themselves, as in my experience they always do.

My gripe is with the procurement and roll out, which was down to governmental / political issues.

Edit: sorry, apologies for duplicate post.

[Jason]

Looks like the experiences of people working through the expat site is very different. But isn't that the same everywhere in the world at the moment....

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

Well, here we go again  

Yes, @Bob20, because as usual you'r basing everything you say on your personal experience, ignoring what's widely reported and widely commented on here, and making wild ssumptions without a shred of any other evidence.

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

Semantics as in Thailand they had mostly 20 days between 1st and 2nd jab, voiding your argument of extra delay as they don't even respect the full 3 weeks. Ergo they could do it quicker, not slower.

No, my "argument of extra delay" was clearly based on the use of AZ.

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

. My information that expatvac uses other vaccines as well differs from yours:

It only uses Pfizer for expats who are eligible by age or for medical reasons, plus others at their discretion - generally those over 40.

No, they do not. I have visited several vaccination events (not only my own) and they've always jabbed only Pfizer for expatvac registrants in all age groups and health conditions.

Well, your information is wrong, @Bob 20, despite your fascination with visiting vaccination events and you somehow being allowed in when apart from outside they're closed to anyone who isn't being vaccinated or their carer if they're incapicated. It's absolutely, completely wrong, based on nothing apart from what you think you've seen, and I'm trying to avoid being offensive but to warn people about taking dangerous advice.

Yours, for example, could make someone register on expatvac thinking they were guaranteed Pfizer, cancelling AZ or Moderna, only to find that they didn't get Pfizer, they'd lost their chance of Moderna, and delayed their chance for AZ.

WHAT YOU'RE SAYING COULD CAUSE SOME PEOPLE HERE SERIOUS PROBLEMS, @BOB20 - try to think of the consequences of what you say occasionally.

Others posting here have had worse outcomes for vaccines than they need have - that's contributed to by comments like yours giving appallingly bad and dangerous advice.

Those for Pfizer, particularly foreigners, are generally called to "vaccination events" where only Pfizer is administered to minimise confusion, so it's no surprise that you saw everyone at those events getting Pfizer because that was all that was being given out - at those events.

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

Besides, just about everyone would be eligible for Pfizer, as AZ use is far more restricted.

That's just nonsense, @Bob20. The only people technically "eligible" for Pfizer here are the over 60's and those with health condtions, whether Thai or foreign.

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

The only AZ lines I have seen at expatvac locations (the event not always being exclusive to expatvac subscribers) were specifically marked for Thai nationals, who obviously did not register with expatvac.

JHC. Those obviously weren't "expatvac locations" but for anyone registered,  and again that's what you've seen - or think you've seen - nothing else.

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

*We know from the batch numbers and expiration date (reported here previously) that they are still using the donated doses from 31 July for expatvac events, so they have truly been reserved. Not used up and replaced with newly supplied batches.

This sums it up, @Bob20, and sums up everything that's wrong with these posts and with the dangerous advice you're giving, however well-intentioned it is.

YOU DON'T "KNOW" THAT AT ALL.

All it's possible to "know" from that is that those doses were used ON THAT OCCASION. NOTHING ELSE.

You DON'T know "that they are still using the donated doses from 31 July for expatvac events, so they have truly been reserved".  You're not just making an assumption based on minimal evidence, but it's not even suggested and is completely unsupported by any evidence at all.

You're entitled to your own opinion, @Bob20, as we all are, but what you're claiming to "know" and passing on here as advice which others will act on is dangerous.  You complain about the anti-vaxxers giving dangerous advice, but yours is no different.

FFS think about the consequences of some of what you post.

 

 

 

 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Looks like the experiences of people working through the expat site is very different. But isn't that the same everywhere in the world at the moment....

Apart from some having initial problems with registering, everyone commenting in this thread and others seems to have been similarly impressed, had the same good experience, and been injected with the same range of vaccines.

Except maybe @Bob20 ...

[Bob20]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

 

P.S.

I said that with 150k Pfizer doses that have been reserved for that specific purpose since 31 July, by now they could have easily vaccinated the 69k people that registered. All if's and but's about age or health are totally irrelevant as Pfizer can be used for all and there was enough of it reserved.

And I don't consider it right to discuss other members in posts (nor their kids) so I left it at that previously and PM'd @gummy instead. I suggest you do the same as you're wrong, but other members are not a subject for open discussion here.

[Bob20]

50 minutes ago, Stonker said:

 

Stonker mate, I know for a fact that they are using the same batch with same expiration date. I've proven it in previous posts, confirming it with other members here (after you questioned it before as well and I suggested you take it up with them, which you have apparently not done), and I've seen the labels with my own eyes and have some lovely photos of them. And yes, I did get in to those sites, which may tell you some more about me...  Regardless, you dismiss my findings with no evidence to the contrary at all... Just argumentative as usual.

Anyone who registered for Moderna or other private events, and would in addition register on the expatvac site (or actually more likely the other way around!), would be silly to cancel their reservation, knowing that now we are at nearly 70k registrants and there's only max. 75k Pfizer (*2).

Besides, if they could register for expatvac, as so many do at any opportunity for any other option too, they are not obliged to go through with it and can politely decline when they arrive if they prefer a different route. Not everyone is dumb as you seem to assume.

There's nothing dangerous about it. But you would write until midnight confusing the h*ll out of everyone. Because my initial point was simply:

What surprises me most though, is that the number of below 70k registrations (which was already at the level of 65.000 by end of August) hasn't yet been fully jabbed.

ALL THE REST IS IN RESPONSE TO YOUR COMPULSION OF HAVING TO PICK EVERYTHING APART!

[Stonker]

6 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Stonker mate, I know for a fact that they are using the same batch with same expiration date. I've proven it in previous posts, confirming it with other members here, and I've seen the labels with my own eyes.

But you don't!!!

It's still more of the same absolute nonsense, based entirely on what you claim you've seen with your own eyes, which is way beyond absurd.

Maybe that's the case in Chiang Mai, I'm not suggesting that you're lying about what you say you've seen, but it's ridiculous to say that because that's the case in CM so it applies everywhere else across Thailand.

It's just unbelievable that an adult can't see that.

27 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

And I don't consider it right to discuss other members in posts (nor their kids) so I left it at that previously and PM'd @gummy instead. I suggest you do the same as you're wrong, but other members are not a subject for open discussion here.

@gummy's mentioned the problem of getting his kids at CMU vaccinated before, and asked for anyone's advice, so it's far from something I'm talking out of turn about. 

If he registers them on expatvac thinking the're going to get Pfizer, as you say they will, and they don't as they're only in their 20's so they turn it down when they find out they can't, that could cause them further issues down the line. 

Don't try to turn that into something it's clearly not - you're making massive potential problems for people with this.

[Stonker]

37 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Not everyone is dumb as you seem to assume.

I'm not calling other people "dumb" but some have posted here that they took "a different route" instead of the government one, thinking it was the best solution, and that they ended up with Sinovac when if they'd waited three weeks they'd have had Pfizer - and then weren't able to get Pfizer (or Moderna) as a booster / second dose, even though they'd registered for it, as a result.

I can't post a link to that because the forum has "SERVER problems" at the moment so the search engine isn't working properly, but some people do take advice from others here and yours could cause people serious problems - "politely declining" a MOPH Immunization Centre shot that you've applied for is registered by the MOPH, and it may be an issue when you register again - equally it may not, but I don't know and I think it would be absolutely stupid to ignore that possibility.

I have no idea if it was as a result of your previous bad advice or not, and I'm not suggesting it was directly, but this sort of dangerous and uninformed, totally unsupported advice can have unpleasant consequences for others.

If you don't care about that, up to you.