News Forum - Anutin opposes limiting quarantine-free re-opening to 10 countries

[JamesR]

2 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

To read your posts, it appears that all the prospective mongers thinking of visiting Phuket, will be able to share the same cab from from the Airport. I've never been to Phuket, but we are talking about the whole of Thailand. I doubt that 90% of bars in Phuket have closed and been changed into hotels, but even if they have, does that mean that 90% of all the bars in TH have gone the same way? There's where my problems with your posts lay.

As for not "rooting out evidence", how difficult would it be. When someone posts BS on here, it usually takes a few seconds to maybe a couple of minutes to find and show the real facts. It appears from you post that you are Programmer. Should be a piece of cake for you. But instead, you remind me of the Mexican Bandit in "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre". To paraphrase him, "Evidence? Evidence? We don't need no stinking evidence".

As for your extremely immature comment about my favourite watering holes. That really is childish. On the one hand you claim that my post supports yours because I admit that some bars have closed, but then you try to pretend that I might be lying so you need me to send proof. I can show you pictures of one hundred cows that I say are all called Horace. but pictures without proof are pretty worthless. But how difficult would it be for you to show pictures of all these new hotels in Phuket which have replaced 90% of bars, when there is such  documented wealth of bars on Phuket on YT over many years?

As I say, I've never been to Phuket, but when I've viewed posts on YT from BKK 112 in particular he shows dozens of Bars on Bangla Rd. I would think there upwards of 50 bars on that strip, and numerous other on the Sois of it. So if my estimate is correct, if there are that many bars there now, then 450 must have closed. And then there is Patong. Assume the same figure again, and that leads me to ask, could there really have been 900 bar closures in recent years?

"To read your posts, it appears that all the prospective mongers thinking of visiting Phuket, will be able to share the same cab from from the Airport."

That sounds a little bit crazy, I have never mentioned a cab share and why would anybody want to share a cab when it only costs 800 baht for a private controlled taxi from the airport?

I got further down you post and realise you are a little bit well shall I say a bit erratic,  so I will leave it at that, you seem to be looking for an argument over nothing and to go around in circles but I am not the man for the job.

See you later. 

 

 

[JohninDublin]

36 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I recall that I posted a link to this months ago, with a detailed study breaking down the reduction in deaths in hospital  against previous years. 

Motorcycle deaths were way down, as were traffic accidents generally, from the lockdowns,  curfews and alcohol controls, but there were also virtually no deaths from flu (three in a year IIRC) and far fewer assorted cases of hepatitis and similar infections  down to social distancing, masks, and increased hygiene / hand washing.

So can I ask as you seem to be prepared to do the number crunching, what's your take on the reported infection/mortality rates in TH? Do you think there is any real evidence of serious under-reporting, or that the "excess" death figures, reflects a true picture. 

 

[Stonker]

7 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

So can I ask as you seem to be prepared to do the number crunching, what's your take on the reported infection/mortality rates in TH? Do you think there is any real evidence of serious under-reporting, or that the "excess" death figures, reflects a true picture. 

It's impossible to say with any level of certainty, but I know cases in my province that didn't show up in the published provincial figures, as I knew more cases personally than were given in the provincial totals.

That could have been deliberate under reporting, bad reporting or just late reporting, and with little to go on it's impossible to say with certainty.

I also know that the "Covid Care Centre" at my local district hospital has been full, which suggests that unless most other districts' CCCs are empty the provincial total is much higher, but again it's impossible to say with certainty and I'm a bit of a "facts" person.

Hospitalisations and deaths I'm a bit more confident about, and I've not seen or heard anything at all to suggest they're anything but completely correct - but I can only say that with any level of confidence about my province, nowhere else.

[JohninDublin]

5 minutes ago, JamesR said:

"To read your posts, it appears that all the prospective mongers thinking of visiting Phuket, will be able to share the same cab from from the Airport."

That sounds a little bit crazy, I have never mentioned a cab share and why would anybody want to share a cab when it only costs 800 baht for a private controlled taxi from the airport?

I got further down you post and realise you are a little bit well shall I say a bit erratic,  so I will leave it at that, you seem to be looking for an argument over nothing and to go around in circles but I am not the man for the job.

See you later. 

I am not looking for an argument over nothing. You seem to have spent a good deal of your time challenging my posts, and in some cases requiring that I prove these. Then without being asked, you offer to provide "evidence" to support your claim that "90% of bars have closed in Phuket and been converted into hotels". The proof is pictures of hotels.

When it is pointed out that a picture without any corresponding evidence to say what was there before is not much help, you resort to immaturity asking me to prove that many of the bars I used to visit, were now closed, even though you accept that they are closed. Even your sarcastic comment about a time machine was a fail. I can provide such proof BTW, but I am pretty sure that you will not reciprocate, because when you've painted yourself into a corner, deflection becomes the order of the day.

We can all make mistakes, and even feel the need to save face, but the problem with that, is that most of the members of this, site know deflection when they see it.

[Stonker]

56 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

 

I can show you pictures of one hundred cows that I say are all called Horace. but pictures without proof are pretty worthless.

 

Talking about "pictures without proof are pretty worthless" I'm stunned by the UK's latest decision on testing vaccinated arrivals from non-red list countries (still on topic, as it's a direct comparison ).

From 24 October the UK's not only accepting a rapid flow test instead of a PCR test, but the test is collected at the airport to be self-administered at home, then posted off together with a photo you take to show that it's you and the specimen is yours.

Maybe I'll take a photo of me swabbing myself then rinse it under the tap and take a sample from my dog and send that off!

Un-B-frigging-lievable.

 

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/grant-shapps-admits-travel-testing-094952794.html

"The Transport Secretary said ‘the system requires people to be honest’."

 

[JamesR]

15 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

I am not looking for an argument over nothing. You seem to have spent a good deal of your time challenging my posts, and in some cases requiring that I prove these. Then without being asked, you offer to provide "evidence" to support your claim that "90% of bars have closed in Phuket and been converted into hotels". The proof is pictures of hotels.

When it is pointed out that a picture without any corresponding evidence to say what was there before is not much help, you resort to immaturity asking me to prove that many of the bars I used to visit, were now closed, even though you accept that they are closed. Even your sarcastic comment about a time machine was a fail. I can provide such proof BTW, but I am pretty sure that you will not reciprocate, because when you've painted yourself into a corner, deflection becomes the order of the day.

We can all make mistakes, and even feel the need to save face, but the problem with that, is that most of the members of this, site know deflection when they see it.

I am happy to accept I have been 'deflected' and close this circular argument now, leave it at that. 

 

[JohninDublin]

20 minutes ago, Stonker said:

It's impossible to say with any level of certainty, but I know cases in my province that didn't show up in the published provincial figures, as I knew more cases personally than were given in the provincial totals.

That could have been deliberate under reporting, bad reporting or just late reporting, and with little to go on it's impossible to say with certainty.

I also know that the "Covid Care Centre" at my local district hospital has been full, which suggests that unless most other districts' CCCs are empty the provincial total is much higher, but again it's impossible to say with certainty and I'm a bit of a "facts" person.

Hospitalisations and deaths I'm a bit more confident about, and I've not seen or heard anything at all to suggest they're anything but completely correct - but I can only say that with any level of confidence about my province, nowhere else.

Thanks for that.

I get very frustrated seeing cynical posts suggesting that because it comes from TH, it must be a lie.

I've said on here on more than one occasion that there are external agencies who have a pretty good idea about any serious falsification of figures because there will be other pointers to support or undermine this. I gave the example of Wuhan who were claiming a handful of deaths whenever they reported any. Then Western Media were reporting the city's 6 crematoria were working 24 hours a day, and undertakers were running out of funeral urns. Hmmm?

[JohninDublin]

48 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Talking about "pictures without proof are pretty worthless" I'm stunned by the UK's latest decision on testing vaccinated arrivals from non-red list countries (still on topic, as it's a direct comparison ).

From 24 October the UK's not only accepting a rapid flow test instead of a PCR test, but the test is collected at the airport to be self-administered at home, then posted off together with a photo you take to show that it's you and the specimen is yours.

Maybe I'll take a photo of me swabbing myself then rinse it under the tap and take a sample from my dog and send that off!

Un-B-frigging-lievable.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/grant-shapps-admits-travel-testing-094952794.html

"The Transport Secretary said ‘the system requires people to be honest’."

YCMIU.  But then again why should I be surprised? After all, this is Grant ShCrapps speaking. 

I've commented on it before, but when the UK gave Indians 72 (or 96) hours to return home or face hotel quarantine, thousands returned on the back of PCR tests carried out in India, a country with a long history of medical fraud, and there was little if scrutiny carried out when they got back. Within days and just about the time you would have expected it based on estimated incubation time, we started seeing clusters of Delta variant in towns with large S. Asian populations. 

I think if Crapps were put on trial for manslaughter based on his negligence, he'd be deemed mentally incompetent to stand trial. I am reminded of the first Wilson cabinet. The then "Minister for War" was Roy Mason. When asked what experience he had that qualified for the job, it was pointed out that he had done Military Service and had risen to the rank of Sergeant. I suspect that when Bojo was looking for a Transport Sec, he probably asked for applications from anyone who had owned a train set.

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, JamesR said:

I am happy to accept I have been 'deflected' and close this circular argument now, leave it at that. 

You haven't "been" deflected which implies someone else is responsible. You did the deflection. 

[Soidog]

16 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

YCMIU.  But then again why should I be surprised? After all, this is Grant ShCrapps speaking. 

I've commented on it before, but when the UK gave Indians 72 (or 96) hours to return home or face hotel quarantine, thousands returned on the back of PCR tests carried out in India, a country with a long history of medical fraud, and there was little if scrutiny carried out when they got back. Within days and just about the time you would have expected it based on estimated incubation time, we started seeing clusters of Delta variant in towns with large S. Asian populations. 

I think if Crapps were put on trial for manslaughter based on his negligence, he'd be deemed mentally incompetent to stand trial. I am reminded of the first Wilson cabinet. The then "Minister for War" was Roy Mason. When asked what experience he had that qualified for the job, it was pointed out that he had done Military Service and had risen to the rank of Sergeant. I suspect that when Bojo was looking for a Transport Sec, he probably asked for applications from anyone who had owned a train set.

I agree it sounds like it’s open to all kinds of abuse by those who want to abuse it. The other way to look at this of course is that this is the new normal and what “living with COVID” will look like for vaccinated people. I would imagine the vast majority of people will do it properly having paid for the test. Those who don’t and perhaps would have tested positive with a supervised test would have gone on to break quarantine anyway.
 

I think the whole timing of this is wrong and should have been delayed until the impact of winter flu and Covid were more understood. This could be a perfect storm ahead and sounds like another government gambling with people’s life’s in favour of the economy. 

[JohninDublin]

35 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I agree it sounds like it’s open to all kinds of abuse by those who want to abuse it. The other way to look at this of course is that this is the new normal and what “living with COVID” will look like for vaccinated people. I would imagine the vast majority of people will do it properly having paid for the test. Those who don’t and perhaps would have tested positive with a supervised test would have gone on to break quarantine anyway.
 

I think the whole timing of this is wrong and should have been delayed until the impact of winter flu and Covid were more understood. This could be a perfect storm ahead and sounds like another government gambling with people’s life’s in favour of the economy. 

This gov has had a bad habit of gambling and losing where CV is concerned.

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

I get very frustrated seeing cynical posts suggesting that because it comes from TH, it must be a lie.

Likewise. Some figures may be, some very probably are, but the idea that because one figure is wrong so they all are is as absurd as the idea that because one is right so they all are.

Similarly, the idea that because someone is military so all they know is war and they can do nothing else is just as short-sighted - look at Portugal's vaccination roll out.

Equally the idea that 'I haven't seen it / know anyone with it so it can't be correct' is as naive as the idea that 'it's raining here so it must be raining everywhere', or 'my wife's Thai, I  know what she thinks, so I know what Thais think'.

Ho hummm .....

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

I would imagine the vast majority of people will do it properly having paid for the test.

 

What possible difference can it make that they paid for the test?

It's not as if they chose to take the test - it's mandatory so they had no option, FFS!

 

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

Those who don’t and perhaps would have tested positive with a supervised test would have gone on to break quarantine anyway.

So because they would have "gone on to break quarantine anyway" that justifies making it not only easier but legal for them to do so?

With that sort of logic, why bother locking your house when you go out, or even closing the door, as if someone wants to break in they'll do so anyway!

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

This could be a perfect storm ahead and sounds like another government gambling with people’s life’s in favour of the economy. 

Agreed, but with either Anutin in Thailand or Boris and his cronies in the UK, it's not so much in favour of the economy which they're trashing long term but in favour of their own short term popularity.

[HiuMak]

On 10/14/2021 at 12:03 PM, Thaiger said:

It appears there’s dissension amongst the ranks once more, as Thailand’s Health Minister disagrees with restricting the PM’s proposed re-opening to 10 countries. According to a Nation Thailand report, Anutin Charnvirakul says Thailand should re-open to vaccinated tourists from more than 10 “low risk” countries. On Monday night, PM Prayut Chan-o-cha carried out a televised address in which he proposed a November 1 re-opening to fully vaccinated tourists from 10 “safe” countries. The proposal is to be discussed at a meeting of the CCSA today. If approved, fully vaccinated qualifying tourists would need to test negative for Covid-19 prior to […]

The story Anutin opposes limiting quarantine-free re-opening to 10 countries as seen on Thaiger News.

Read the full story

what happen to the rich tourist Thailand wants to attract from the 10 countries?  This guy is not in line.

[AussieBob]

Back to the topic about Anutin the anti-Expat military leader who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

So Anutin claims 'quarantine free' when the fact is that you must undergo a PCR test on arrival and then remain in an ASQ type hotel for at least one day while the results of you (and your family) PCR tests are processed. I still call that 'quarantine' and with it the possibility that one of your family will test positive (or were sitting near someone else that tests positive), and therefore that whole 2 weeks luxury expensive holiday you have paid for on the island is totally screwed. 

Mandatory ripoff insurance, military curfews, most venues closed, no alcohol, COE moved to online system and renamed Thailand Pass because most of the overseas Embassies are incompetent, must pay for all tests, and if test positive there will be more tests to pay for and an expensive ASQ hotel bill which are all not covered under the insurance scam.

Not a chance - just like Phuket sandbox, it will only be returning Thais and Expats, and the desperates and the idiots - speaking of which whatever happened to that German woman locked up in that hotel because she sat near someone that tested positive.

When being vaccinated and a negative test in Australia prior to departure is all that is required to board the plane to Thailand, then and only then will we be returning to Thailand.  No tests on arrival, no quarantine, no curfews, no bans on entertainment venues, no bans on alcohol sales, no restrictions. Certainly I will have travel insurance as we always do that covers all hospital costs (including Covid, Rabies, Cholera, etc etc).

[LoongFred]

10 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

I would argue that 'most' here have a Thai wife and possibly kids. Rent or bought a house. Bought a car and or motorbike. Spend their earnings/pension in the local economy. Do their visa's and 90 day reporting as required. Never give police or immigration any problems. Because they are never an issue you dont hear about those guys.

In short they, as a group, contribute a lot of money into the Thai economy.

You need to explain how, as a westerner retired in Thailand, you can possibly take more than you spend?

You know that Thailand isn't a nanny state. Like it or not they allow you here so they can make a small amount of money. 

[Chaimai]

28 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Back to the topic about Anutin the anti-Expat military leader who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

So Anutin claims 'quarantine free' when the fact is that you must undergo a PCR test on arrival and then remain in an ASQ type hotel for at least one day while the results of you (and your family) PCR tests are processed. I still call that 'quarantine' and with it the possibility that one of your family will test positive (or were sitting near someone else that tests positive), and therefore that whole 2 weeks luxury expensive holiday you have paid for on the island is totally screwed. 

Mandatory ripoff insurance, military curfews, most venues closed, no alcohol, COE moved to online system and renamed Thailand Pass because most of the overseas Embassies are incompetent, must pay for all tests, and if test positive there will be more tests to pay for and an expensive ASQ hotel bill which are all not covered under the insurance scam.

Not a chance - just like Phuket sandbox, it will only be returning Thais and Expats, and the desperates and the idiots - speaking of which whatever happened to that German woman locked up in that hotel because she sat near someone that tested positive.

When being vaccinated and a negative test in Australia prior to departure is all that is required to board the plane to Thailand, then and only then will we be returning to Thailand.  No tests on arrival, no quarantine, no curfews, no bans on entertainment venues, no bans on alcohol sales, no restrictions. Certainly I will have travel insurance as we always do that covers all hospital costs (including Covid, Rabies, Cholera, etc etc).

 

Stefanie Korényi...................handled herself with dignity and accepted that she was just 'unlucky' to be sat next to someone, on the plane, in a family group where one member tested positive.

 

I believe that she was heading to Chiang Mai to study/teach.

[LoongFred]

9 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

I've already published the link. Now would you mind desisting from the gratuitous snide comments? 

Your posting shows nothing about the 10-12% contributions to the Thai economy. Fack news/post

[LoongFred]

This thread has lost it's way. The topic was "Anutin Opposes..." and it become a tread about the brits rights to sit in a bar and drink. 

[AussieBob]

16 minutes ago, Chaimai said:

Stefanie Korényi...................handled herself with dignity and accepted that she was just 'unlucky' to be sat next to someone, on the plane, in a family group where one member tested positive.

I believe that she was heading to Chiang Mai to study/teach.

Yes - I wonder what happened to her - not the sharpest tool in the shed but lovely and as you said 'dignified' - hope it worked out for her and she 'found some meaning' which at her age aint easy.  

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

Back to the topic about Anutin the anti-Expat military leader who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

Anutin's not ex-military.

I don't know for sure, but I'm 99% sure he wouldn't have even done conscription as he would have either not been chosen in the lucky dip or been a cadet at school so exempt.

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

So Anutin claims 'quarantine free' when the fact is that you must undergo a PCR test on arrival and then remain in an ASQ type hotel for at least one day while the results of you (and your family) PCR tests are processed. I still call that 'quarantine' and with it the possibility that one of your family will test positive (or were sitting near someone else that tests positive), and therefore that whole 2 weeks luxury expensive holiday you have paid for on the island is totally screwed. 

Mandatory ripoff insurance, military curfews, most venues closed, no alcohol, COE moved to online system and renamed Thailand Pass because most of the overseas Embassies are incompetent, must pay for all tests, and if test positive there will be more tests to pay for and an expensive ASQ hotel bill which are all not covered under the insurance scam.

Not a chance - just like Phuket sandbox, it will only be returning Thais and Expats, and the desperates and the idiots - speaking of which whatever happened to that German woman locked up in that hotel because she sat near someone that tested positive.

When being vaccinated and a negative test in Australia prior to departure is all that is required to board the plane to Thailand, then and only then will we be returning to Thailand.  No tests on arrival, no quarantine, no curfews, no bans on entertainment venues, no bans on alcohol sales, no restrictions. Certainly I will have travel insurance as we always do that covers all hospital costs (including Covid, Rabies, Cholera, etc etc).

Agree with all the rest of it, so I think it'll be a while until you're back here.

That probably applies to many people, if not most, which may be just as well since the only way the "plan" can work without setting Thailand one step forward and ten steps back is for it to fail.

[AussieBob]

5 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Anutin's not ex-military.

I don't know for sure, but I'm 99% sure he wouldn't have even done conscription as he would have either not been chosen in the lucky dip or been a cadet at school so exempt.

Agree with all the rest of it, so I think it'll be a while until you're back here.

That probably applies to many people, if not most, which may be just as well since the only way the "plan" can work without setting Thailand one step forward and ten steps back is for it to fail.

Thanks for that Stonker - I always thought Anutin was ex-military - I stand corrected.

Yes it looks like being a while. But I can assure you the 'pressure' is on to at least fly in for a quick visit to the family, so it may happen quicker than I want to.  Besides being trapped in a rip off hotel room and paying for rip off insurance, one of my additional considerations is that if I go to Thailand then I will be supporting the Junta. Whilst I do hope things get better for the average Thai, I certainly dont want to help the Junta get re-elected by visiting Thailand.  But then again, I would bet on it that their 'mates' in the China Military Dictatorship will flood Thailand with millions of Chinese tourists and $billions in economic development loans/projects, well before the 2023 elections to help shore up their supporters.

[RobMuir]

6 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Whilst I do hope things get better for the average Thai, I certainly dont want to help the Junta get re-elected by visiting Thailand.

Jesus Bob, I think you might be over estimating the importance of your visit if you think that it will sway the election results here.

I am sure you are much loved but I think the Thais will be influenced by thousands of other reasons before your visit.

[AussieBob]

9 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

Jesus Bob, I think you might be over estimating the importance of your visit if you think that it will sway the election results here.

I am sure you are much loved but I think the Thais will be influenced by thousands of other reasons before your visit.

LOL   That caused me to laugh more than I have for a while.  Well said mate - you got me a good one there.     You MUST be an Auissie - taking the piiiiz out of each other is so 'Aussie'.  I owe you a beer or two next time we do visit - and the Milky Bars are on me 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

You know that Thailand isn't a nanny state. Like it or not they allow you here so they can make a small amount of money. 

A small amount of money?

So what do you do when you visit Thailand?