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Some of the world’s leading medical experts are being targeted by conspiracy theorists who disagree with their opinions on Covid-19. An AFP report says a survey carried out by the scientific journal Nature has revealed the extent of the intimidation. The journal spoke to 321 scientists and medical experts in the US, the UK, Brazil, Canada, Taiwan, New Zealand, and Germany. 81% reported personal attacks, including death threats, after speaking to the media about the Covid-19 virus. Belgian virologist Marc Van Ranst says he was unaware his life was in danger until the authorities alerted him to the fact that […]

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"...Belgian virologist Marc Van Ranst says he was unaware his life was in danger until the authorities alerted him to the fact that a man was sitting in a car outside his home with 4 rocket launchers..."

"...Such was the backlash against her criticism of Raoult, that she was verbally insulted in the street and received rape threats on Twitter. She was forced not only to leave the social media platform, but to move out of her home and in with friends..."

What is going on in the world?

Are we returning to a new 'Dark Ages'? Are people of learning and/or science now targeted solely because they say things people don't want to hear? Do we want to go to the hospital and have leeches applied to bleed us? Will we be burning witches in public squares? Do we want to led by the Dumbest among us?

Is the 'Coalition of the Sane' breaking down on a global scale?

It is truly a time whereby people of learning and science need to speak up; allowing the loonies to dictate things only leads to heartbreak and sorrow.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Edited by Shade_Wilder
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6 minutes ago, Shade_Wilder said:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Many very 'good men' are doing something about the covid/vax tyranny.  RPG's probably a bit on the extreme end 😜

There are groups in NZ and Australia preparing legal challenges against Government mandates for compulsory vaccination.  One NZ group have a unique fall-back Maori law if all else fails. 

I'm sure there will such challenges in many countries, and more extreme action could easily occur.

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"Belgian virologist Marc Van Ranst says he was unaware his life was in danger until the authorities alerted him to the fact that a man was sitting in a car outside his home with 4 rocket launchers."

i have been looking all over the web for rocket launchers. i wish there was a link to where he got them. 

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6 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

"Belgian virologist Marc Van Ranst says he was unaware his life was in danger until the authorities alerted him to the fact that a man was sitting in a car outside his home with 4 rocket launchers."

i have been looking all over the web for rocket launchers. i wish there was a link to where he got them. 

Try here

www.taliban.com

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2 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

Many very 'good men' are doing something about the covid/vax tyranny.  RPG's probably a bit on the extreme end 😜

There are groups in NZ and Australia preparing legal challenges against Government mandates for compulsory vaccination.  One NZ group have a unique fall-back Maori law if all else fails. 

I'm sure there will such challenges in many countries, and more extreme action could easily occur.

 

Greetings KR

I have a general rule of not discussing Covid on-line, but since I broke my own rule already today, I figure that I can break it one more time.

First, as I always try to find commonality. I am very glad to see that we both disapprove of RPGs to make a point. 😎 Actually, I suspect that we agree on much more; by the tone of your post, I don't think you care for governments in general and we share that view. I find them meddlesome at the best of times and would prefer that they do less. Period.

However, one area where we seem to disagree is Public Health. I view a country or a society as a family writ large, and in a family, you do what you can to help a family member who is ill; that is just the way it is. And, yes, if that means that you take a vaccine in order to help protect others in the family, then you take it. We as a species, in our country groups, have done remarkably well in improving the health of our members; Small Pox and Polio are mostly a bad memory now and we have made tremendous progress against a host of others (including a new Malaria vaccine; Yeah!). Further, I strongly suspect that you and I both have contributed to that already; if one grows up in a Western country, one is almost certainly vaccinated against a host of other diseases. Finally, I am so tired of this 'effing' virus; I want it gone and the best way to do that is to vaccinate it out of existence, or at least out of concern, as we have done with others; I never want to wear a mask again.

Are vaccines safe? In the Western world (I don't know specific information regarding Asia) we have used them successfully for over 200 years. Our current Covid vaccines, although they were developed quickly, have undergone rigorous testing to ensure their safety and both the lab-based tests and the mass vaccination data from all over the world says that they are.

I really can't add anything to that.

I, as a general rule, don't like following governmental instructions, but in this case, I can't think of a valid reason not to; if we are to get this thing behind us, then we need to vaccinate as many as possible. And, we need to do it before the Covid mutates again into something that could be worse.

If we weren't discussing something contagious, then my only comment to you would be along the lines of 'you're a big boy, do what you like'.

But we are.

Please get a shot so that we can get all of this crap behind us and return to a normal(ish) life.

Cheers

 

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11 minutes ago, Shade_Wilder said:

Please get a shot so that we can get all of this crap behind us and return to a normal(ish) life.

I'm not averse to VACCINES per se, just these mRNA experiments and mandated injection of, in NZ's case, the Pfizer product which is far from proven as an effective guard against infection and given jabs required at 6 monthly intervals no-one yet knows what detrimental effects may occur long term.

If Covid-delta settles in as the main strain and no new, better, vector-type vaccines are available I will opt for Sinopharm in order to gain the liberty to travel.  I'm happy to not be in Aus/NZ where mandated jabs may result in $5,000 fines or jail for non-compliance when the only vax on offer is mRNA based.

So you see we are the same, I'm perhaps just a tad more particular about what I will have injected into my body.

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I personally believe a Javelin is the best choice for a missile for your normal car trips requiring missiles but M47 Dragon is also a solid choice. A little old but still good.

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28 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

I'm not averse to VACCINES per se, just these mRNA experiments and mandated injection of, in NZ's case, the Pfizer product which is far from proven as an effective guard against infection and given jabs required at 6 monthly intervals no-one yet knows what detrimental effects may occur long term.

If Covid-delta settles in as the main strain and no new, better, vector-type vaccines are available I will opt for Sinopharm in order to gain the liberty to travel.  I'm happy to not be in Aus/NZ where mandated jabs may result in $5,000 fines or jail for non-compliance when the only vax on offer is mRNA based.

So you see we are the same, I'm perhaps just a tad more particular about what I will have injected into my body.

Hi KR,

Question: why don't you walk into your doctor's surgery or CMU's virology dept and ask for info?

Confusing and biased info here is clearly delaying your decision and meanwhile you are not only at risk, but also possibly the cause of a new strain (although a miniscule chance).

You see, all mRNA components are fragile and disappear completely from your system within weeks. And the waning effectiveness shows that your body is in time "forgetting" to respond too. So what are you so worried about? Enough has been researched to show that there are no strange additives in the vials.

Meanwhile a new strain can possibly emerge, and there I see mRNA vaccines as a good thing. A booster can be then be specific again like tweezers instead of a sledge hammer, as they are able to adjust the vaccine within 3 months of a new variant emerging. I don't see that happening with the other vaccine families.

Besides, why wait until you travel? What if it hits and you're not one of the lucky ones? Or have you been infected and have some natural protection already (also waning)?

Anyway, with CM already badly hit, full hospital wards and travelers likely to soon make matters worse, get it done whatever your choice...

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3 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Besides, why wait until you travel? What if it hits and you're not one of the lucky ones? Or have you been infected and have some natural protection already (also waning)?

Thanks for your concern Bob.  Actually I believe that I may have some immunity from a severe viral infection approx 3 years ago, H1N1 I think, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, certainly not myself, again!  

I'll wait, taking precautions, and see what pans out.  We don't have any urgent social or travel needs.

Sinopharm can be had at most of the private hospitals here but there's at least 2 others in trials now, 3 if you include the Sputnik Light, which show far greater promise than Pfizer/Moderna.

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43 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

I'm not averse to VACCINES per se, just these mRNA experiments and mandated injection of, in NZ's case, the Pfizer product which is far from proven as an effective guard against infection and given jabs required at 6 monthly intervals no-one yet knows what detrimental effects may occur long term.

If Covid-delta settles in as the main strain and no new, better, vector-type vaccines are available I will opt for Sinopharm in order to gain the liberty to travel.  I'm happy to not be in Aus/NZ where mandated jabs may result in $5,000 fines or jail for non-compliance when the only vax on offer is mRNA based.

So you see we are the same, I'm perhaps just a tad more particular about what I will have injected into my body.

The mRNA vaccines are not the only  vaccines available in Melbourne, certainly AZ is available in Oz, I am not sure where the 5000 aud fine comes from as I have one of my sons who is unvaccinated and travels to work daily currently. There are some employers demanding their employees to be vaccinated

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9 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Hi KR,

Question: why don't you walk into your doctor's surgery or CMU's virology dept and ask for info?

That's sadly one of the anti-vax / anti-mRNA tactics, @Bob20 - to walk into your doctor's surgery etc and ask for information from a long list of prepared questions they already know the answers to, making it increasingly difficult not only for anyone else to be vaccinated but for anyone else to see their doctors or GPs for any other reason. 

These selfish bar-stewards have caused far more harm with these tactics than any of the more extreme nut-jobs like the German.

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10 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

Thanks for your concern Bob.  Actually I believe that I may have some immunity from a severe viral infection approx 3 years ago, H1N1 I think, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, certainly not myself, again!  

I'll wait, taking precautions, and see what pans out.  We don't have any urgent social or travel needs.

Sinopharm can be had at most of the private hospitals here but there's at least 2 others in trials now, 3 if you include the Sputnik Light, which show far greater promise than Pfizer/Moderna.

I don't think we'll agree on long-lasting natural immunity from H1N1 infection (natural immunity waning after 2-3 months), nor on the promise of a different application of basically an existing vaccine.

But I would stress that a vaccine is for prevention and the chances of escaping the virus are getting smaller by the day. 

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1 hour ago, KaptainRob said:

I'm not averse to VACCINES per se, just these mRNA experiments and mandated injection of, in NZ's case, the Pfizer product which is far from proven as an effective guard against infection and given jabs required at 6 monthly intervals no-one yet knows what detrimental effects may occur long term.

I hadn't realised you were either quite so well informed that you know more than any of the world's leading virologists, or quite so badly informed that you know very little about the vaccines at all.

What you say leaves no room for any middle ground.

The mRNA vaccines are not "experiments" by any accepted medical definiton. That stage was long past several years ago for mRNA vaccines as a general issue, and well over a year ago for the Covid mRNA vaccines in particular.

According to all the world's leading virologists and vaccine manufacturers there's no evidence at all as yet that "jabs required at 6 monthly intervals". Nobody knows as yet whether two, three, or more jabs will be required as an initial dose as this hasn't been established yet - some require more (tetanus requires five, then one every ten years) some, such as MMR, require less. 

They may be required every six months or every year, or they mau not - as yet none of the vaccine manufacturers or the world's leading virologists know.

If you know that "jabs required at 6 monthly intervals", maybe you could give an accepted source for that claim, or pass your findings on?

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6 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

But I would stress that a vaccine is for prevention and the chances of escaping the virus are getting smaller by the day. 

Maybe.  However I do not know of ONE single person diagnosed or hospitalised, (let alone dead) from Covid in Chiang Mai as yet.

We have a friend with 50 workers, mainly labourers plus a whole host of sub-contract suppliers and installers, say another 50, plus office staff and all his clients, Chinese and other farangs mainly.  Not one case of Covid has crossed his path yet despite the majority (tai yai's especially) refusing vaccinations.  His own immediate family and office staff, 10 or 12, has Sinopharm about 3 months ago. 

I glean information from personal friends and put my faith in those who are in the medical field. 

@Thommo NT mandate vax or $5k fine if not jabbed by Nov 13 apparently.

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Just now, KaptainRob said:

Maybe.  However I do not know of ONE single person diagnosed or hospitalised, (let alone dead) from Covid in Chiang Mai as yet.

We have a friend with 50 workers, mainly labourers plus a whole host of sub-contract suppliers and installers, say another 50, plus office staff and all his clients, Chinese and other farangs mainly.  Not one case of Covid has crossed his path yet despite the majority (tai yai's especially) refusing vaccinations.  His own immediate family and office staff, 10 or 12, has Sinopharm about 3 months ago. 

I glean information from personal friends and put my faith in those who are in the medical field. 

@Thommo NT mandate vax or $5k fine if not jabbed by Nov 13 apparently.

Well, that sounds exceptional to me. I've not been here that long and I know of several. And they're not always the ones that used to be reported by case number either, which made me doubt the official figures to start with.

But you're evading the main point with these examples, which is your prerogative. That's of course exactly why it's called prevention... By the time you find that your neighbour or friend is infected, you may need more than a vaccine.

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1 hour ago, KaptainRob said:

(snip) ... the Pfizer product which is far from proven as an effective guard against infection and given jabs required at 6 monthly intervals no-one yet knows what detrimental effects may occur long term.

There are surely only three acceptable options for those who have doubts about the mRNA vaccines:

1. Accept that the danger from Covid far outweighs any danger from an mRNA vaccine, and take the vaccine as doing so is the only way anyone can ever know for sure on the same scale as other vaccines, such as Polio or MMR.

2. Have doubts and take an alternative vaccine, such as from AZ or J&J, although they're known to be less effective if less of a risk, leaving others to take the risk with mRNA vaccines to prove their safety for you.

3. Do nothing until enough other people have taken enough vaccines to prove their value to your satisfaction.

Options 1 and 2 are at least supporting the 'world community' by minimising the number of deaths, hospitalisations and lost productivity caused by Covid if people remain unvaccinated.

Option 3 seems to be very much 'I'm all right, Jack', but at least it's better than option 4 which is unacceptable to most people:

4. Do nothing until enough other people have taken enough vaccines to prove their value to your satisfaction, and in the meantime spread dis-information and mis-information, making others unnecessarily wary of taking mRNA or any other vaccines so causing totally unnecessary suffering and death not only from Covid but from a lack of hospital beds and medical facilities as they're being used for Covid patients instead.

Whether you're in category 3 or 4, or you think there's another option, is in the eye of the beholder, but at least your comments here make some things clearer.

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1 hour ago, KaptainRob said:

I'm happy to not be in Aus/NZ where mandated jabs may result in $5,000 fines or jail for non-compliance when the only vax on offer is mRNA based.

That's simply completely untrue.

Anyone in Aus, including in the NT, is fully entitled to have an AZ vaccination rather than Pfizer or Moderna if they choose to.

https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/who-can-get-vaccinated#access-to-vaxzevria-astrazeneca

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5 hours ago, Shade_Wilder said:

"...Belgian virologist Marc Van Ranst says he was unaware his life was in danger until the authorities alerted him to the fact that a man was sitting in a car outside his home with 4 rocket launchers..."

"...Such was the backlash against her criticism of Raoult, that she was verbally insulted in the street and received rape threats on Twitter. She was forced not only to leave the social media platform, but to move out of her home and in with friends..."

What is going on in the world?

Are we returning to a new 'Dark Ages'? Are people of learning and/or science now targeted solely because they say things people don't want to hear? Do we want to go to the hospital and have leeches applied to bleed us? Will we be burning witches in public squares? Do we want to led by the Dumbest among us?

Is the 'Coalition of the Sane' breaking down on a global scale?

It is truly a time whereby people of learning and science need to speak up; allowing the loonies to dictate things only leads to heartbreak and sorrow.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

I love the Internet and think it is the greatest invention since semi-conductors that enabled it. But when I see how often it is misused with stories like these, I feel like reversing my views on this. 

This reminds me of the stupid claim made by gun nuts, that "The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun". The problem is that most of the bad guys in these cases are heavily camouflaged deep cover snipers who the good guys can't even begin to find. But that won't stop similar gun nuts applauding their actions of the shooter if he is attacking people they don't like or that they disagree with. 

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3 hours ago, Stonker said:

Anyone in Aus, including in the NT, is fully entitled to have an AZ vaccination rather than Pfizer or Moderna if they choose to.

Your information is partly correct however Pfizer is recommended for all ages up ~60 y/o and AZ only for over 60's. 

Therefore clinics are primarily injecting Pfizer and you do not have a choice of AZ if under 60 and stocks are limited, which they are at present.

In NZ Pfizer has been the vax in use although others are on order and one is yet to be approved by Medsafe.

https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/status-of-applications.asp

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4 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

"Belgian virologist Marc Van Ranst says he was unaware his life was in danger until the authorities alerted him to the fact that a man was sitting in a car outside his home with 4 rocket launchers."

i have been looking all over the web for rocket launchers. i wish there was a link to where he got them. 

Getting hold of heavy duty weaponry  in Europe is not the most difficult thing. When the Warsaw pact collapsed plenty of weapons also disappeared to end up in the hands of criminals. Even today when Russia is fighting a proxy war in the Ukraine, it is not hard to imagine that fighters on both sides are not supplementing their incomes by indulging in the "war surplus" trade.

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2 hours ago, Shade_Wilder said:

I view a country or a society as a family writ large, and in a family, you do what you can to help a family member who is ill; that is just the way it is.

I take a slightly different view but with the same conclusion. The role of a gov is to look after the health and welfare of it's people. 

As an analogy, during WWII, there were Air Raid Precautions including the blackout, for which there were criminal penalties for beaching these. It would never have been a useful defence in court to say, "My home. My risk", because just like the virus like the bombers, were not that discriminatory. Those who refused to observe the blackout, present a risk to both themselves and others. The same applies to the unvaxxed. 

There are ethical considerations to be taken into account, including that fact that Doctors etc, are forbidden except in the rarest of circumstances, of treating people against their will. I fully applaud that. But we are now seeing schools being allowed to refuse admittance to the unvaxxed for MMR. A poll in Ireland showed 3-1 in favour of such a measure https://www.thejournal.ie/children-who-arent-vaccinated-banned-from-school-4538758-Mar2019/ and this was before CV.

If people don't want to be vaccinated, then that should be their decision. But if the vast majority who favour vaxxing, believe that discrimination against these people in their own legitimate self interests, such as refusing them certain privileges and rights is reasonable, then I support that vast majority.

One other thought occurred to me regarding this issue. I heard of reports from the US, that some anti-maskers were now wearing masks, not as a preventative against CV, but because they were worried that they might inhale a contaminant exhaled by the vaxxed. Of course that raises the question of it can really prevent you breathing in such infectious particles from the vaxxed, why they refused to wear masks to prevent the spread of CV to begin with? But a far better question might be, if they were so concerned with the dangers of vaxxing, why they would want to socialise with the vaxxed in any case?

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41 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

Your information is partly correct however Pfizer is recommended for all ages up ~60 y/o and AZ only for over 60's. 

Therefore clinics are primarily injecting Pfizer and you do not have a choice of AZ if under 60 and stocks are limited, which they are at present.

No, yet again that's completely untrue.

What I wrote was 100% correct, and what you're claiming is verifiably totally untrue.

While Pfizer is recommended,as you say, you DO have a choice if you want Astra Zeneca as the Aus Gov website I linked states very clearly:

"Access to Vaxzevria (AstraZeneca)

You can book an appointment for the AstraZeneca vaccine if you are:

  • 60 years old and over
  • 18 to 59 years old – you can choose to have AstraZeneca after discussing with your health professional "

You may have to wait for stocks to be available, but claiming that "you do not have a choice of AZ if under 60 and stocks are limited"

is completely and totally untrue.

 

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