News Forum - Health experts weigh in on risks of re-opening Thailand without quarantine

[El_Trauco]

Data trends can inform us of likely outcomes within the limitations of the studies. No crystal ball or Nostradamus style prognostications required. Because... science

[Bob20]

1 hour ago, Jayce said:

 

I myself was just trying to comment on a news article...

No, you're not. . You're making an argument for doing something irresponsible. You're not the only one, but being fed-up with the situation or wanting to have more freedom is not purely an individual choice.

And your location is nicely hidden, but is of course imperative for your point of view.

Let's say I insisted on freedom 3 months before you had a chance to be vaccinated, or decided to cough on you because I didn't care. I'm sure you would have objected.

Those who insist on their freedom because they had enough, think it's taken long enough or don't care anymore, are (in my opinion) anti-social misfits who would have shouted their heads off if the shoe were on the other foot.

Those who want jabs and have not been given them come before the freedoms of others who have been luckier.

[Jayce]

9 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

No, you're not. . You're making an argument for doing something irresponsible. You're not the only one, but being fed-up with the situation or wanting to have more freedom is not purely an individual choice.

And your location is nicely hidden, but is of course imperative for your point of view.

Let's say I insisted on freedom 3 months before you had a chance to be vaccinated, or decided to cough on you because I didn't care. I'm sure you would have objected.

Those who insist on their freedom because they had enough, think it's taken long enough or don't care anymore, are (in my opinion) anti-social misfits who would have shouted their heads off if the shoe were on the other foot.

Those who want jabs and have not been given them come before the freedoms of others who have been luckier.

Way to completely not address any of the other points I've raised. Let me return the favour in kind...

Any decent arguments you care to raise other than your emotional diatribe?

[HolyCowCm]

Health Experts. That is sort of an oxymoron considering the moron at the helm of the ministry,

[Bob20]

24 minutes ago, Jayce said:

Way to completely not address any of the other points I've raised. Let me return the favour in kind...

Any decent arguments you care to raise other than your emotional diatribe?

Nope, the scientific arguments are apparently wasted on you, which is why you continue peddling the same unsupported narrative.

[vvdb.fr]

There were few positive people in the sandbox.

PCR tests 72 hours before departure are quite reliable in the countries of origin. It would be interesting to know these countries.

Opening up to these countries is smart.

If 100,000 PCR tests per day are not possible in Thailand how can the epidemic figures be reliable.

This is a really worrying point for tourists !!!

Edited October 13, 2021 by vvdb.fr
English

[Jayce]

16 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Nope, the scientific arguments are apparently wasted on you, which is why you continue peddling the same narrative.

You haven't even properly read what I wrote and/or you haven't even tried to refute anything I've said yet you insist you are right and I am wrong. Reread your previous statement and tell me again how much of it was scientific argument and how much was personally biased emo dribble...

Pray tell why I should waste my time solely argumenting from your perspective if you can't be bothered to look at mine. The perspective of a singularly opnionated individual who does not care about proper dialog and whose first words addressed to me was to imply I was brainless without even knowing who I am or what I'm about. If anything, that kind of opening was indicative, if not of a lack of intelligence on your part, of a sincere lack of class. 

You go ahead and keep staring yourself blind at your 'scientific argument' that doesn't even make common sense and at the same time pat yourself on the back in overlooking the mental, sociological and economical health aspects of this crisis as if they don't matter buddy. As long as you feel good about yourself that's all that matters right.

Fwiw you strike me as someone who hides behind the greater good to distract from the personal agenda which is the fact that you've probably not been able to have your jab yet. While you portray yourself to be this great altruist thinking about the greater good, I wouldn't be surprised if the real truth is that there are a lot more egotistical reasons behind your blind advocation of xenophobia.

Oh but before I go, please tell me again the difference between the slight chance of catching Covid from a  vaccinated international traveler arriving in Thailand or the much more likely scenario of catching Covid from your friendly Thai neighbour?

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Jayce

[Jason]

Opening up what are normally tourist hotspots and ensuring vaccination rates of Thais in those areas is over 80% is a good idea. Opening up all of Thailand is a much bigger ask. Thailand has neither the vaccines nor the testing capability or even less so the hospital capacity to treat a literal Tsunami of cases. The opening of Thailand shouldn't happen until 80% fully vaccinated across the entire population. We get no data on the Thaiger on that! 

[Chaimai]

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

Opening up what are normally tourist hotspots and ensuring vaccination rates of Thais in those areas is over 80% is a good idea. Opening up all of Thailand is a much bigger ask. Thailand has neither the vaccines nor the testing capability or even less so the hospital capacity to treat a literal Tsunami of cases. The opening of Thailand shouldn't happen until 80% fully vaccinated across the entire population. We get no data on the Thaiger on that! 

 

 

Where do you see the main risks?

[Bob20]

1 hour ago, Jayce said:

You haven't even properly read what I wrote and/or you haven't even tried to refute anything I've said yet you insist you are right and I am wrong. Reread your previous statement and tell me again how much of it was scientific argument and how much was personally biased emo dribble...

Pray tell why I should waste my time solely argumenting from your perspective if you can't be bothered to look at mine. The perspective of a singularly opnionated individual who does not care about proper dialog and whose first words addressed to me was to imply I was brainless without even knowing who I am or what I'm about. If anything, that kind of opening was indicative, if not of a lack of intelligence on your part, of a sincere lack of class. 

You go ahead and keep staring yourself blind at your 'scientific argument' that doesn't even make common sense and at the same time pat yourself on the back in overlooking the mental, sociological and economical health aspects of this crisis as if they don't matter buddy. As long as you feel good about yourself that's all that matters right.

Fwiw you strike me as someone who hides behind the greater good to distract from the personal agenda which is the fact that you've probably not been able to have your jab yet. While you portray yourself to be this great altruist thinking about the greater good, I wouldn't be surprised if the real truth is that there are a lot more egotistical reasons behind your blind advocation of xenophobia.

Oh but before I go, please tell me again the difference between the slight chance of catching Covid from a  vaccinated international traveler arriving in Thailand or the much more likely scenario of catching Covid from your friendly Thai neighbour?

I could clearly see your attitude from the start...

I've been double jabbed with Pfizer, so wrong again...

Yet I'm not so selfish to think that I'm out of danger, so sod the rest.

The lucky ones can have the patience and decency to wait for the others to get protected too.

[dmacarelli]

Guys like Thira are both cowards and fear mongers. Lock him up? ASAP. Millions are out of work. Does he care one iota? Apparently not. 

 

His type just feed the fear of the rabid anti Vax devotees. Do they not realize how boring and listless their paranoid diatribes are? I have friends who rant and rant about the extreme hazards of vaccines. All of a sudden they are experts with years of studies to back them up. LOL. 

Just man up and get the damn thing already. Your world will not end by doing something to benefit society. It is referred to as a sacrifice, if you don't like vaccines. 

 

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, dmacarelli said:

Guys like Thira are both cowards and fear mongers. Lock him up? ASAP. Millions are out of work. Does he care one iota? Apparently not. 

His type just feed the fear of the rabid anti Vax devotees. Do they not realize how boring and listless their paranoid diatribes are? I have friends who rant and rant about the extreme hazards of vaccines. All of a sudden they are experts with years of studies to back them up. LOL. 

Just man up and get the damn thing already. Your world will not end by doing something to benefit society. It is referred to as a sacrifice, if you don't like vaccines. 

Just need the vaccine supply first. Many jab locations closed despite the ridiculous 178.2m figure. They're even accepting donations, clear sign they haven't got what is needed, shown also by the low daily vaccination numbers which were promised to be 1m+ per day since 15 September but never happen.

Everyone wants to make progress, but it all stops with the vaccine availability...

[Soidog]

6 hours ago, DoUKnowWhoIAm said:

Here we go again. Opimistic plan-> prominent doctors worry->u turn. 

Yes, these experts are a real pain. Much safer to allow an ex-army general with no knowledge of virology or medicine to decide the best way forward. I hope the next time I’m on a plane, they let one of the cabin crew fly it. Much safer..

[Soidog]

6 hours ago, Malc-Thai said:

albeit probably until 10pm sharp! 

Great point there. He can tick the box that says I opened bars as I said I would. Not what a lot of people visiting Thailand are looking for. Still, all those Walking street and Bangla road tourists can have an early night tucked up in bed with coco (she works in the Aussie bar!)

[Soidog]

6 hours ago, Jayce said:

In short, vaccinated tourism isn't going to make matters worse for thailand while having substantial economical upside. Clearly those medical experts don't care about the excess deaths (short, mid and long term) from poverty, only those related to covid.

But what will these 100,000 tourists do @Jayce? Do you mean they won’t make matters worse with existing restrictions in place? 
 

Im assuming right now, bars up and down the country and in places like Nana and Cowboy are starting to finish a few repairs, planning on cleaning the floors and calling staff back from all parts of Thailand in readiness for the opening in December. Do you think that could have an impact on the spread of the virus?  

[Soidog]

5 hours ago, gummy said:

There will of course be a risk, the outcome of which is not known. Taking several steps back then many businesses are now ruined around the world, not just Thsiland so should all countries just open up ?

With the benefit of hindsight consider this. The world is overcrowded so a population reduction is overdue. Is this natures way of acheiving this and humans are interupting an evolutionary process ?

How much this has actual cost the world I suspect is incalcuable in terms of money. But apart from the emotional upset, how much would have disposing of 1.7 billion bodies have cost ? Far far less I suspect. The vunerable would have departed this life with those remaining in accord with natures principles of the survival of the fittest. Now I don't suggest for one moment that is my perdonal view of what should have happened but it is an interesting discussion point, given that Thailand and other places seem to have accepted that opening up at any cost is now the way to go with those decisions purely driven by money. Of course there is still one country not opening up at any cost for money reasons, China.

I must admit to having similar thoughts about getting in the way of nature. Our aim as humans seems to be ever increasing populations that never die. A clearly outrageously stupid way to proceed. Humans always seem to do things because they can, without ever stopping to think if they should. 
 

Im hoping for a virus that culls 1.7 billion stupid people. And I’m not talking intelligence here. I know many intelligent people who are just so Ef’In stupid. Thankfully non on this forum of course

[poohy]

Putting my dictators hat on 

Until Thailand is at least 70% jabbed with real vaccines not the Chinese ones NO opening up should be considered

If they can  close bars and ban beer they can do this!

Aha  money ! but  i bet most of the people currently in but ***k Nowhere moving back to serve entertain etc these returning tourists will unlikely be vaccinated to a sufficient level

What can go wrong?

[Bob20]

11 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I must admit to having similar thoughts about getting in the way of nature. Our aim as humans seems to be ever increasing populations that never die. A clearly outrageously stupid way to proceed. Humans always seem to do things because they can, without ever stopping to think if they should. 
 

Im hoping for a virus that culls 1.7 billion stupid people. And I’m not talking intelligence here. I know many intelligent people who are just so Ef’In stupid. Thankfully non on this forum of course

That's a bit radical.  

Perhaps not burn them on pires and poor the ashes in rivers, but convert a few gas power-stations with the soaring prices? 

You're not blond with blue eyes are you?

[Manu]

2 hours ago, Jayce said:

You haven't even properly read what I wrote and/or you haven't even tried to refute anything I've said yet you insist you are right and I am wrong. Reread your previous statement and tell me again how much of it was scientific argument and how much was personally biased emo dribble...

Pray tell why I should waste my time solely argumenting from your perspective if you can't be bothered to look at mine. The perspective of a singularly opnionated individual who does not care about proper dialog and whose first words addressed to me was to imply I was brainless without even knowing who I am or what I'm about. If anything, that kind of opening was indicative, if not of a lack of intelligence on your part, of a sincere lack of class. 

You go ahead and keep staring yourself blind at your 'scientific argument' that doesn't even make common sense and at the same time pat yourself on the back in overlooking the mental, sociological and economical health aspects of this crisis as if they don't matter buddy. As long as you feel good about yourself that's all that matters right.

Fwiw you strike me as someone who hides behind the greater good to distract from the personal agenda which is the fact that you've probably not been able to have your jab yet. While you portray yourself to be this great altruist thinking about the greater good, I wouldn't be surprised if the real truth is that there are a lot more egotistical reasons behind your blind advocation of xenophobia.

Oh but before I go, please tell me again the difference between the slight chance of catching Covid from a  vaccinated international traveler arriving in Thailand or the much more likely scenario of catching Covid from your friendly Thai neighbour?

Give it up Jayce, it is just a waste of time. Commentating here is a full time job for this guy, he is the "chief-commentator", the "authority" ...in his weird mind. There are always one or two of them on forums, can't be helped. Always stuck in his own thoughts, never read any other argument that is not his (and even then, just for the sake of contradicting someone else, even if he has to contradict himself, which he does all the time), take a few words out of context, and never see your point anyway, willingly sometimes, not understanding most of the time. Trying to get some sense by trying to exchange ideas or opinions with this guy is simply impossible, unless, like him, you spent all day long replying...all week... all month... forever... But in the end, he will always be right cause his "authority" cannot be argued with. A worthless waste of time!

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, Jayce said:

Oh but before I go, please tell me again the difference between the slight chance of catching Covid from a  vaccinated international traveler arriving in Thailand or the much more likely scenario of catching Covid from your friendly Thai neighbour?

@Jayce  I’m not wanting to get in the middle of someone else’s debate (please let’s keep it as a debate and not an argument), but I’m going to  
 

I think the points @Bob20 is making are correct. I also think the points you are making at a singular level are also correct. If I read you right, you are saying that there is no more chance of catching Covid from a vaccinated foreigner arriving today in Thailand than there is the Thai taxi driver taking you to a shopping mall. I agree with that statement and in the science with that.
 

The problem however with the notion of “opening to foreigners” is that it is aimed at attracting tourist and restarting both local and international mass tourism. Tourists want entertainment and nightlife to reopen. Opening to tourists forces that agenda and is exactly what the government is doing. I would have no problem in opening to genuine foreign business travellers for example. Business people who wish to come to Thailand to meet investors and meet with clients for a few days and leave is perfectly safe. It’s the idea that the “opening up” announcements means Thailand is now on the road back to mass tourism and all that entails.  Not just to foreign tourists but also mass movements of local people at weekends and on holiday.
 

That is why people are jumping on your comments. it’s not the singular assertion that you are just as likely to get Covid from a Thai as you are a foreigner  I agree and I’m sure everyone would. It’s what follows next ….

[Soidog]

10 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

That's a bit radical.  

Perhaps not burn them on pires and poor the ashes in rivers, but convert a few gas power-stations with the soaring prices? 

You're not blond with blue eyes are you?

No, but I do have a silly moustache like Charlie Chaplin

[Brownie]

38 minutes ago, Soidog said:

have an early night tucked up in bed with coco

Hot Coco? 

[Bob20]

9 minutes ago, Manu said:

Give it up Jayce, it is just a waste of time. Commentating here is a full time job for this guy, he is the "chief-commentator", the "authority" ...in his weird mind. There are always one or two of them on forums, can't be helped. Always stuck in his own thoughts, never read any other argument that is not his (and even then, just for the sake of contradicting someone else, even if he has to contradict himself, which he does all the time), take a few words out of context, and never see your point anyway, willingly sometimes, not understanding most of the time. Trying to get some sense by trying to exchange ideas or opinions with this guy is simply impossible, unless, like him, you spent all day long replying...all week... all month... forever... But in the end, he will always be right cause his "authority" cannot be argued with. A worthless waste of time!

 

2 hours ago, Jayce said:

You haven't even properly read what I wrote and/or you haven't even tried to refute anything I've said yet you insist you are right and I am wrong. Reread your previous statement and tell me again how much of it was scientific argument and how much was personally biased emo dribble...

Pray tell why I should waste my time solely argumenting from your perspective if you can't be bothered to look at mine. The perspective of a singularly opnionated individual who does not care about proper dialog and whose first words addressed to me was to imply I was brainless without even knowing who I am or what I'm about. If anything, that kind of opening was indicative, if not of a lack of intelligence on your part, of a sincere lack of class. 

You go ahead and keep staring yourself blind at your 'scientific argument' that doesn't even make common sense and at the same time pat yourself on the back in overlooking the mental, sociological and economical health aspects of this crisis as if they don't matter buddy. As long as you feel good about yourself that's all that matters right.

Fwiw you strike me as someone who hides behind the greater good to distract from the personal agenda which is the fact that you've probably not been able to have your jab yet. While you portray yourself to be this great altruist thinking about the greater good, I wouldn't be surprised if the real truth is that there are a lot more egotistical reasons behind your blind advocation of xenophobia.

Oh but before I go, please tell me again the difference between the slight chance of catching Covid from a  vaccinated international traveler arriving in Thailand or the much more likely scenario of catching Covid from your friendly Thai neighbour?

I did reply in full to your first message, but then you change arguments and keep going.  I'm not interested in that.

I do not pretend to be an authority. However, I do know what the virus is, what is does and how it spreads.

At the same time I also know what the vaccines can and can't do.

So while I also would like life to be normal again, any additional domestic or international travel (read: extra movement from people for reason of tourism) will give the virus a way to spread. Each country that did this has seen the disaster unfold. Whether it was Boris' X-mas in the UK, Donald's misinformation in the USA or Songkran here.

The proper vaccines only protect the ones who received it. And until those who want it have been given the chance to get it, unnecessary movements should be limited.

Not my personal view but science's consensus. No politician or individual goes beyond that and had we listened to them earlier, we would not be where we are now. All the pushing for freedom while it's not possible yet, just delays the general safety of the country as a whole.

[Soidog]

15 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

All the pushing for freedom while it's not possible yet, just delays the general safety of the country as a whole.

Couldn’t agree more. If they get this wrong, it will be short term gain for long term pain. 
 

I guess the two week foreigners who come in December and have a great time  and go home to Europe won’t give a damn. If Thailand deaths rise in January and the country has to lockdown again in February why would they care. Back to a country with excellent health and social care. Hopefully it will all get sorted by December 2022 and they can come again and ask where the nice old lady in the shop next door is?  Oh she died in February due to breathing difficulties, she was old anyway! 

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

I'd bet if these high horse resident whiners against any opening and tourists coming in were to cut off their funding from abroad because of COVID they would demand opening all up by next month!