News Forum - Opinion divided on proposed 500 baht tourism tax

[Soidog]

43 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Just been looking at the stats for visitor numbers to TH, length of stay and average daily spend. These are rounded up/down to practical figures 40 mill/9 days/$135 but does not include flight costs. A 1% levy on the spend produces just under $500 mill US.

A levy of $1.40 per day on the ticket price capped at 28 days, produces the same amount. For the average tourist that would be $12.60 USD (THB 420). 

Just thinking out loud. Of course what I can think of, is where this money may end up.

Interesting numbers @JohninDubin  thank you.
 

if I read them right and got my arithmetic right, $500m equates to another 411,000 tourists spending $135 a day for 9 days. I would have though offering incentives rather than taxes could result in growth of tourists which balances out that $500m of tax revenues. A much more positive way to generate income is through growth.
 

This is rather like a business that tries to grow its profits by cutting costs. Do it too much and you upset customers through poor services levels. Revenues and profits fall and then you cut more costs and so on……. Next thing you know you don’t have a business. Alternatively,  invest in people, systems and technology and you grow your revenues and profits. I know which type of company I prefer to work for. 

[palooka]

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

I tend to agree @Craig but there is nothing as strange as people. It’s not the 500 baht that will put people off directly. It what they say about it on social media in the taxi on the way from the airport that may do. I also don’t recall any money changing places air side on arrivals? 20 months since I was at Suvarnabhumi so I may be wrong? It’s a real pain though collecting cash on arrival. If they are going to do it then it should be in the air fare. Problem with that of course is that it hits Thais as well as foreigners. 

Thais that could afford to fly would probably not complain particularly if included in the airfare.

Personally I wasn't even aware there was a departure tax until today--included in fare.

[CaptainChris]

It's not the 500 Baht, IT'S A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE !!! Principles, honor and our valor is what we take to our graves. I have spent millions of Baht over the years and you thank me by taxing me AGAIN? We already pay a "tourism" tax, enough is enough. Maybe god is telling me "time to move on, go East and South my son." This is a deal breaker. 500 Baht tax, bye bye Thailand, hello Vietnam, Philippines, and Malaysia. 

[Bob20]

Just my opinion...

Nobody worries too much about 500 baht more or less for a long haul holiday.

But while most will choose the destination for value (not meaning cheap), which is why the backpacker industry was doing so well and even 4 and 5 star resorts were booked (still good value), every addition makes a difference.

Whilst you would cope with no sidewalk, being eagle-eyed about not stepping in dog-mess or being bitten by one, were careful not to be scammed, sweep the ants from your room or not worry too much about other inconveniences, you get to a point that other, better alternatives present themselves.

Thailand should be mindful that there is a fair amount of resistance against how they treat foreigners in general. If not careful, they will turn away all those who are now still on the fence. And once they went somewhere else and like it, will not be easy to win back.

[JohninDublin]

28 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Interesting numbers @JohninDubin  thank you.
 

if I read them right and got my arithmetic right, $500m equates to another 411,000 tourists spending $135 a day for 9 days. I would have though offering incentives rather than taxes could result in growth of tourists which balances out that $500m of tax revenues. A much more positive way to generate income is through growth.
 

This is rather like a business that tries to grow its profits by cutting costs. Do it too much and you upset customers through poor services levels. Revenues and profits fall and then you cut more costs and so on……. Next thing you know you don’t have a business. Alternatively,  invest in people, systems and technology and you grow your revenues and profits. I know which type of company I prefer to work for. 

Your figures are correct, but that is money spent in TH. Unless it is taxed at 100% only a fraction of that will go to the gov. Not that I'm advocating for any of it go to the gov, but as I understand it, the purpose of the tax is to improve the Tourism Infrastructure.

I totally agree with you regarding the better business model. When in Pattaya, I usually stay at the Eastiny 7 on Soi 7. When I first started using this, they had a restaurant and the food was pretty good. Prob was my "date" and I were usually the only customers most times I was there. But the kitchen also provided room service up till 10 pm. The resto closed and so did the room service. Then it was the turn of the mini-bars. If a visitor skipped out with paying their bill, the boss deducted it from the staff wages. This led to the staff refusing to refill the bars, so that too was removed. On my last visit just as CV was taking off, I discovered that I could not make outgoing calls from the room. Same reason as the people skipping out on the mini-bar bill. So now, all that hotel has to offer now, is box with AC to sleep in. Death by a thousand cuts. But in fairness to them, the price of a room has reduced from 1200 per night to currently 740 per night in since 2007.

In an earlier life, I was a cabbie for 21 years. On one occasion, I figured that the busiest office to work from would be that with the cheapest fares. Big mistake. Most of the passengers were quite obnoxious and had no problem accusing you of trying to rob them. I realised that serving penny-pinchers was not a gratifying task. The cheaper you made things, the lower the class of customer you got.

[Marc26]

9 hours ago, Gordonr said:

I thought 500b arrival tax would be a wonderful way to welcome tourists IF IT INCLUDED HEALTH AND ACCIDENT INSURANCE FOR 90days.

This would be a great PR tool.

WELCOME TO AMAZING AND SAFE THAILAND.

im sure the amount of claims would be negligible.

Panama does this, well without the charge

They give 5kusd coverage for accidents/sickness

You even get a little temporary insurance sticker.......

 

I was very impressed with that, definitely good PR

And, as you pointed out, very low % of people would actually need to make a claim

[Changnam43]

These guys lack ambition.

Why not 5000?  Or 50,000?  In crisp newly issued banknotes.

 

[LuckyStrike]

It's not the 500b. It's the black hole the 500b will be dropped in to. How much will actually get to those who need it?

[Cathat]

Airlines tend to separate taxes and fees just before the total amount to be paid for the ticket so hiding it in the air ticket price does not really work that well.

The airlines are struggling as it is and they would almost certainly object to being used as a tax collector for the government.seeing as they private sector carriers have had no support from the government during the pandemic I can see where there coming from.

It's going to be a very competitive market when the globe opens up for tourism.

Now is a very poor time to impose a new tax on travellers however small it is.

[HiuMak]

11 hours ago, CaptainChris said:

It's not the 500 Baht, IT'S A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE !!! Principles, honor and our valor is what we take to our graves. I have spent millions of Baht over the years and you thank me by taxing me AGAIN? We already pay a "tourism" tax, enough is enough. Maybe god is telling me "time to move on, go East and South my son." This is a deal breaker. 500 Baht tax, bye bye Thailand, hello Vietnam, Philippines, and Malaysia. 

It is a probably a strategy to attract only "rich" tourist. It is a indirect tax that is so announced and eye-popping compared to other countries.  Maybe also to discourage low purchasing power tourist or those who have too much principle. 

[Cathat]

12 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

Your figures are correct, but that is money spent in TH. Unless it is taxed at 100% only a fraction of that will go to the gov. Not that I'm advocating for any of it go to the gov, but as I understand it, the purpose of the tax is to improve the Tourism Infrastructure.

I totally agree with you regarding the better business model. When in Pattaya, I usually stay at the Eastiny 7 on Soi 7. When I first started using this, they had a restaurant and the food was pretty good. Prob was my "date" and I were usually the only customers most times I was there. But the kitchen also provided room service up till 10 pm. The resto closed and so did the room service. Then it was the turn of the mini-bars. If a visitor skipped out with paying their bill, the boss deducted it from the staff wages. This led to the staff refusing to refill the bars, so that too was removed. On my last visit just as CV was taking off, I discovered that I could not make outgoing calls from the room. Same reason as the people skipping out on the mini-bar bill. So now, all that hotel has to offer now, is box with AC to sleep in. Death by a thousand cuts. But in fairness to them, the price of a room has reduced from 1200 per night to currently 740 per night in since 2007.

In an earlier life, I was a cabbie for 21 years. On one occasion, I figured that the busiest office to work from would be that with the cheapest fares. Big mistake. Most of the passengers were quite obnoxious and had no problem accusing you of trying to rob them. I realised that serving penny-pinchers was not a gratifying task. The cheaper you made things, the lower the class of customer you got.

Very true,I once did a complete large house clearance using eBay.

The cheaper the items got the more ridiculous the amount of questions and requests for discount I got.

I ended up dumping loads of useful stuff simply because I got fed up dealing with the penny pinchers.

 

[Craig]

Even funnier are people who expect/want a fee from farang tourists to pay their health insurance bill here.  Geez, talk about wanting someone else to pay yet complain about a tourist fee at the same time.  

I’d have no problem paying the additional 500 thb fee to visit here but definitely not a fee to pay a broke ass farang’s health insurance.  

[Marc26]

42 minutes ago, Craig said:

Even funnier are people who expect/want a fee from farang tourists to pay their health insurance bill here.  Geez, talk about wanting someone else to pay yet complain about a tourist fee at the same time.  

I’d have no problem paying the additional 500 thb fee to visit here but definitely not a fee to pay a broke ass farang’s health insurance.  

Bites my ass when a farang gets sick or have an accident 

Then they don't have insurance and people are asking for donations to help them out

 

Sure, some guy decided he didn't want to work anymore but let's pay his bills for him 

 

Maybe I'm a dick, but I have no empathy for that 

[Bob20]

5 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Bites my ass when a farang gets sick or have an accident 

Then they don't have insurance and people are asking for donations to help them out

Sure, some guy decided he didn't want to work anymore but let's pay his bills for him 

Maybe I'm a dick, but I have no empathy for that 

I agree with you.

Then again, I think the poster meant it to be similar to an "insurance premium" for all who enter for their holiday (not for long-stayers).

My opinion on that here:

https://thethaiger.com/talk/topic/5035-healthcare-costs-and-insurance/

[kerryd]

This tax was initially proposed as a way to cover "unpaid hospital bills" supposedly racked up by foreigners (implying tourists and not workers from neighbouring countries).

Anutin claimed at the time that tourists were skipping out on over 300 million baht in hospital bills every year (about 330 million in the year he quoted if I recall correctly).

I calculated that, at the time this was first proposed, a tax of just 10 baht per arrival would easily cover those bills. (I even wrote a letter, translated into Thai, to the Minister of Tourism. No response of course.)
They could have just increase the existing "airport departure tax" by 10 baht and been done with it.

Then they came out with this new plan of charging 300 baht per arrival !! Thirty times what was supposedly needed !

Now it's 500 baht ! They expected (before covid) that they'd hit 40 million arrivals in 2020. That means they are looking at raking in over 20 billion baht a year !

In money that can easily be "diverted" to whatever purpose they want with little or no scrutiny.

And it's another hidden tax that can be easily raised at anytime without most people even noticing. Who's going to notice if their ticket to Thailand this year is $3-4 or a couple of Euros more than it was last year ?

And you can be sure that no one is going to have a clue where that money ends up going to either.

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

I agree with you.

Then again, I think the poster meant it to be similar to an "insurance premium" for all who enter for their holiday (not for long-stayers).

My opinion on that here:

https://thethaiger.com/talk/topic/5035-healthcare-costs-and-insurance/

Yeah I said it above that Panama just gives you 5k insurance

 

Helps if you get sick or have a minor accident 

No need to pay and go through insurance claim hassle

 

I'd gladly pay even more than 500 baht in any country to get similar coverage 

(I'd pay a lot more actually)

 

And as the poster said, it would be a net money maker for the country, I would assume 

[Bob20]

Just now, Marc26 said:

Yeah I said it above that Panama just gives you 5k insurance

Helps if you get sick or have a minor accident 

No need to pay and go through insurance claim hassle

I'd gladly pay even more than 500 baht in any country to get similar coverage 

(I'd pay a lot more actually)

And as the poster said, it would be a net money maker for the country, I would assume 

Any insurance company will assess in advance that the premium will cover costs plus profit.

But there will be unhappy faces as the government will not give a contract to the insurer for free. And the others will then be at a disadvantage.

Plus, they're not at all interested in providing something in return for the additional 500 baht. 

What 500 baht??

[Marc26]

7 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Any insurance company will assess in advance that the premium will cover costs plus profit.

But there will be unhappy faces as the government will not give a contract to the insurer for free. And the others will then be at a disadvantage.

Plus, they're not at all interested in providing something in return for the additional 500 baht. 

What 500 baht??

Yeah I'm just saying I wish all countries would do that

I'd pay $100usd at least for it

 

And I have good travel insurance through my work insurance 

But just to not have the claim hassles would be great 

[JohninDublin]

5 hours ago, Cathat said:

Very true,I once did a complete large house clearance using eBay.

The cheaper the items got the more ridiculous the amount of questions and requests for discount I got.

I ended up dumping loads of useful stuff simply because I got fed up dealing with the penny pinchers.

Your post reminds me that the most frequent question asked in a Pound Shop, where everything is £1, is "How much does this cost"?

[JohninDublin]

2 hours ago, Bob20 said:

Any insurance company will assess in advance that the premium will cover costs plus profit.

But there will be unhappy faces as the government will not give a contract to the insurer for free. And the others will then be at a disadvantage.

Plus, they're not at all interested in providing something in return for the additional 500 baht. 

What 500 baht??

I recall reading on here a few weeks ago, when this current wave was at it's peak, that some of the insurers were looking to renege on their obligations over Covid Insurance. The Gov, to their credit, told them they had to "eat it". I presume none of the Cabinet had investments in insurance companies.

[Bob20]

3 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

I recall reading on here a few weeks ago, when this current wave was at it's peak, that some of the insurers were looking to renege on their obligations over Covid Insurance. The Gov, to their credit, told them they had to "eat it". I presume none of the Cabinet had investments in insurance companies.

From what I read here every day, unlike every other mortal, they don't need to invest in something to get a return....

[longwood50]

Only the government would think that during the middle of a pandemic with onerous hurdles to enter Thailand and the tourist industry in shambles the appropriate thing is to increase the cost to visit Thailand.  

As it currently stands even with no quarantine a person visiting here has to pay the cost of a covid test prior to arrival and again upon arrival.  In addition the cost of obtaining a fit to fly plus covid insurance for the length of their visa.  

While that "might" be ok for someone staying 1 month or more, it certainly will crimp the appetitive for those wanting to visit for 1 week or less.  Consider, husband, wife, and two children would pay upwards baht just for the Covid tests  

I think they will be shocked when they see how few families want to vacation in Thailand and either choose another destination or stay in their home country to vacation. 

 

[Bob20]

4 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

Only the government would think that during the middle of a pandemic with onerous hurdles to enter Thailand and the tourist industry in shambles the appropriate thing is to increase the cost to visit Thailand.  

As it currently stands even with no quarantine a person visiting here has to pay the cost of a covid test prior to arrival and again upon arrival.  In addition the cost of obtaining a fit to fly plus covid insurance for the length of their visa.  

While that "might" be ok for someone staying 1 month or more, it certainly will crimp the appetitive for those wanting to visit for 1 week or less.  Consider, husband, wife, and two children would pay upwards baht just for the Covid tests  

I think they will be shocked when they see how few families want to vacation in Thailand and either choose another destination or stay in their home country to vacation. 

It's been suggested that's exactly what they want, despite other outward appearances...

[Buttaxe]

On 10/12/2021 at 12:47 PM, Rain said:

What? 

Really?

B500 is gonna break ya?

One might want to check others' hidden entry/exit tax and see where we stand.

Every country has its Uncle Toms, Thailand more than usual.