Important rules and behaviours for driving in Thailand

[gummy]

4 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Hey lads, we are running out of stories to comment on, a few stories have been closed as some people have gone off tracks and had a right old ding-dong arguing with each other, this seem to be the trend at the moment so we the 'innocent' lose out.

Yes I think the same. Who is going to be first to start a thread where the topic is for the next poster to say something totally different ?  That should be fun . Also perhaps another topic could be where the next poster has to write something even more exaggerated and padded with BS than the previous one, that should attract a few to.   They would always be on topic of course

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, Changnam43 said:

Yes. That is what happens when a two tonne pick up truck hits somebody on a scooter.

I think you'll find there are more reasons for these deaths - not wearing a crash helmet is a significant factor. Although the mixing of fast and slow vehicles on poorly built roads would be a significant factor.

Motorcycles are of course very vulnerable in any case.

[cowslip]

most of the anecdotal incidents described here are not limited to Thailand.

[JamesE]

4 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

one must drive defensively.

But assertively. It's the whole ying/yang thing.

[Bluesofa]

10 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

most of the anecdotal incidents described here are not limited to Thailand.

That could be true, I don't know.
What I can remember is there's about 160 road deaths daily here in Thailand.
Doing a quick search for the same deaths in the UK - similar population - it appears to be 5 per day for 2019.

 

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, Bluesofa said:

That could be true, I don't know.
What I can remember is there's about 160 road deaths daily here in Thailand.
Doing a quick search for the same deaths in the UK - similar population - it appears to be 5 per day for 2019.

 

I've driven all over western Europe and on other continents - Any tale here can be seen anywhere else - in particular take a look at videos of China and Russia.

People tend to cite incidents they witness without realise they are simply engaging in confirmation bias.

If you really dig about, you'll find that the difference in the number of collisions is nowhere near that big - the difference is the amount of people who sustain injuries or don't survive.

Of course, just comparing the UK is not the point.

Your figure of 160 is wildly off the mark - it's about 60 per day - but a lot of this depends on which statistics you look at. Just citing deaths per day is not really a comprehensive way of looking at the situation; that's only one figure - it ignores cars per capita, mileage per vehicle etc. These are taken into account by the original stat gatherers but usually ignored by the media - so a distorted picture emerges in the press.

In the deaths per day figure, 80% of deaths in Thailand are "vulnerable road users" - which refers to pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, 3 -wheelers and  those who are easily injured and killed or injured in a car-dominated road space. This is not just down to the vehicles themselves but to transport planning, which often lacks inclusion and is influenced by forces that favour motor vehicles....this is especially the case in Thailand. in car your chances of dying are about the same as the USA

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Khunwilko

[Faraday]

7 hours ago, Khunwilko said:

most of the anecdotal incidents described here are not limited to Thailand.

They are probably not, but certainly more prevalent & deadly.

[Faraday]

Reported road casualties UK.

 

For 2019 fatal road deaths was 1752 per year.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_Road_Casualties_Great_Britain

 

Thailand-

https://m.thaiwebsites.com/caraccidents.asp

Article from The Thaiger:

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/road-deaths/thai-road-death-toll-tops-12000-in-2019

 

[Bluesofa]

18 minutes ago, Faraday said:

Reported road casualties UK.

For 2019 fatal road deaths was 1752 per year.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_Road_Casualties_Great_Britain

Thailand-

https://m.thaiwebsites.com/caraccidents.asp

Article from The Thaiger:

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/road-deaths/thai-road-death-toll-tops-12000-in-2019

Interesting. The UK road deaths I quoted earlier of 5 per day came from using the same figure.

I mistakenly quoted Thai deaths as 160 per day. I meant to write 60 per day. Well it was the middle of the night when I (mis)wrote it. My mistake, sorry.

The Thaiger link says 12,000 deaths per year (32 deaths per day).
However, that same article also says:
"Academics caution that this figure only relates to those who die at the scene, and the actual death toll is far higher when when all all data is collated, and when victims succumb to their injuries after leaving the accident scene.
The total annual Thai death toll, over recent years, is between 21,000 – 24,000, making it one of the worst in the world (currently #5 in the world according to World Health Orginisation [sic] data)."

60 deaths per day equates to 22,000 deaths per year.

 

 

[gummy]

2 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

Interesting. The UK road deaths I quoted earlier of 5 per day came from using the same figure.

I mistakenly quoted Thai deaths as 160 per day. I meant to write 60 per day. Well it was the middle of the night when I (mis)wrote it. My mistake, sorry.

The Thaiger link says 12,000 deaths per year (32 deaths per day).
However, that same article also says:
"Academics caution that this figure only relates to those who die at the scene, and the actual death toll is far higher when when all all data is collated, and when victims succumb to their injuries after leaving the accident scene.
The total annual Thai death toll, over recent years, is between 21,000 – 24,000, making it one of the worst in the world (currently #5 in the world according to World Health Orginisation [sic] data)."

60 deaths per day equates to 22,000 deaths per year.

You were probably actually nearer the mark with the 160 you mistakenly quoted because to hide the true number of roads deaths the Thai authorities only count those people dead at the scene. The other poor buggers who had life threatening injuries as a result of the accident yet died in hospital later don't count.  So the real death toll if they reported facts possibly would be well over 50,000 a year making them the worst nation on earth.

[Bluesofa]

2 minutes ago, gummy said:

You were probably actually nearer the mark with the 160 you mistakenly quoted because to hide the true number of roads deaths the Thai authorities only count those people dead at the scene. The other poor buggers who had life threatening injuries as a result of the accident yet died in hospital later don't count.  So the real death toll if they reported facts possibly would be well over 50,000 a year making them the worst nation on earth.

Hmm, OK. Even I wouldn't think it's that high although we'll never be certain.

I notice in the Thaiger article I quoted it said, "the actual death toll is far higher when when all all data is collated, and when victims succumb to their injuries after leaving the accident scene."

'victims succumb to their injuries after leaving the accident scene' I think the wording on there could be better chosen. It gives the impression of walking wounded.
I'm sure it must be referring to 'being transported from the accident scene.'

[gummy]

Just now, Bluesofa said:

Hmm, OK. Even I wouldn't think it's that high although we'll never be certain.

I notice in the Thaiger article I quoted it said, "the actual death toll is far higher when when all all data is collated, and when victims succumb to their injuries after leaving the accident scene."

'victims succumb to their injuries after leaving the accident scene' I think the wording on there could be better chosen. It gives the impression of walking wounded.
I'm sure it must be referring to 'being transported from the accident scene.'

Possibly or being cynical "victims succumb to their injuries after leaving the accident scene' alludes to them dying a while after the accident whilst walking on the pavement with crutches  and being run down and killed by another drunk Thai male pick-up driver

[Bluesofa]

23 minutes ago, gummy said:

Possibly or being cynical "victims succumb to their injuries after leaving the accident scene' alludes to them dying a while after the accident whilst walking on the pavement with crutches  and being run down and killed by another drunk Thai male pick-up driver

Yeah, but the problem there is that whoever it was caused the first accident and the pick-up driver would only get half-a-point each.

[cowslip]

11 hours ago, Faraday said:

They are probably not, but certainly more prevalent & deadly.

No this is a misconception - it is also a misconception of how accidents occur - As I said the countries with the  dendrites that are TEN TIMEs LESS than Thailand have only about 1/3 less collisions. The DEADLINESS is related to the nature of the the environment the crashes take place.

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Khunwilko

[cowslip]

8 hours ago, Transam said:

You have been a back seat driver in a zillion farang cars then....?  

May I point out, that what ever your assumptions are, "to a man", those foreign drivers were taught and passed a test to drive, that cannot be said for drivers in LOS...

Actually this is not totally true or really relevant.

most foreigners over 50 had very rudimentary road tests and some countries and States had virtually none.

Whereas driving training prepares you for a bit of road safety, in reality even now that do very little in the long term. Drivers unfortunately think that because they have been driving for a long time, they are EXPERIENCED when in reality they have mostly just developed bad habits. None of this prepares them for driving outside their own county.

Tests in Thailand are getting much better but corruption of course is still prevalent - but a test if taken long side training in any country is no guarantee of a good diver.

What one actually needs is the tools and mental ability to adapt to road conditions wherever you are in the world.

Thai drivers are in general used to driving in Thailand. many foreign drivers bring a lot of "baggage" from their home countries and really can't cope.

[JamesR]

16 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

Actually this is not totally true or really relevant.

most foreigners over 50 had very rudimentary road tests and some countries and States had virtually none.

Whereas driving training prepares you for a bit of road safety, in reality even now that do very little in the long term. Drivers unfortunately think that because they have been driving for a long time, they are EXPERIENCED when in reality they have mostly just developed bad habits. None of this prepares them for driving outside their own county.

Tests in Thailand are getting much better but corruption of course is still prevalent - but a test if taken long side training in any country is no guarantee of a good diver.

What one actually needs is the tools and mental ability to adapt to road conditions wherever you are in the world.

Thai drivers are in general used to driving in Thailand. many foreign drivers bring a lot of "baggage" from their home countries and really can't cope.

Total generalised nonsense. 

[cowslip]

7 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Total generalised nonsense. 

Most of what is posted here comes under that heading.

unfortunately foreigners perception of road safety is totally skewed.

 

 

[cowslip]

10 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Total generalised nonsense. 

So - in your opinion why are there so many deaths on Thai roads?

[Fester]

40 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

Actually this is not totally true or really relevant.

most foreigners over 50 had very rudimentary road tests and some countries and States had virtually none.

Whereas driving training prepares you for a bit of road safety, in reality even now that do very little in the long term. Drivers unfortunately think that because they have been driving for a long time, they are EXPERIENCED when in reality they have mostly just developed bad habits. None of this prepares them for driving outside their own county.

Tests in Thailand are getting much better but corruption of course is still prevalent - but a test if taken long side training in any country is no guarantee of a good diver.

What one actually needs is the tools and mental ability to adapt to road conditions wherever you are in the world.

Thai drivers are in general used to driving in Thailand. many foreign drivers bring a lot of "baggage" from their home countries and really can't cope.

All wrong - except for the "Thai drivers are in general used to driving in Thailand" bit - and even that doesn't make them competent.

[Faraday]

37 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

Actually this is not totally true or really relevant.

most foreigners over 50 had very rudimentary road tests and some countries and States had virtually none.

Whereas driving training prepares you for a bit of road safety, in reality even now that do very little in the long term. Drivers unfortunately think that because they have been driving for a long time, they are EXPERIENCED when in reality they have mostly just developed bad habits. None of this prepares them for driving outside their own county.

Tests in Thailand are getting much better but corruption of course is still prevalent - but a test if taken long side training in any country is no guarantee of a good diver.

What one actually needs is the tools and mental ability to adapt to road conditions wherever you are in the world.

Thai drivers are in general used to driving in Thailand. many foreign drivers bring a lot of "baggage" from their home countries and really can't cope.

What are you rambling on about?

In Farangistan, there are much more proactive measures by the Police. Speed cameras all over the place, ANPR on many, if not all police cars & everybody's favourite, Traffic Wardens issuing tickets for illegal parking. Very much better road markings, correctly timed traffic lights..& etc etc 

The standard of driving here is abysmal,& no effective law enforcement. That's why there are so many RTC's & road deaths.

How long have you spent driving here?

[gummy]

Just now, Fester said:

All wrong - except for the "Thai drivers are in general used to driving in Thailand" bit - and even that doesn't make them competent.

"80 % are complete and utter irresponsible hooligans once behind the wheel". That is how an educated  Thai explained his own countries drivers  to me decades ago and over the years he has been proved almost correct. Although in my experience the majority of female drivers are far better than their male counterparts. Possibly because they do not need to counteract their sexual inadequacies whilst behind the wheel.

[JamesR]

17 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

So - in your opinion why are there so many deaths on Thai roads?

1) You can buy a driving licence.

2) The Thai driving test is a joke in Thailand, you spend ten minutes an a small off road test track with no other cars on the test track, a ten year old kid could pass.

3) Some people drive through red lights.

4) Many People drive the wrong way down streets.

5) Cars do not stop at pedestrian zebra crossings.

6) Many people use their mobile phone while driving including motorbikes where they drive with one hand.

7) Motorcycles overtake you on your left even when you indicating to turn left.

8) Most cars have their windows blacked out even the windscreen thus they can not see so clearly in the dark. 

9) It is illegal in most countries to have three to six people on a motorbike as I have seen many times in Thailand, making them less manoeuvrable, and when one accident happens then up to six people will be injured or dead in one accident. 

I worked in Germany, the USA, Holland, UK, Sweden, Denmark for years and drove on those roads, I have never had an accident as the drivers in those countries stick to the rules.

I have driven in Thailand for many years from north to south, east to west and I have never had an accident as I drive in a very defensive way and have avoided countless accidents by getting out of the way.

I could go on but it would take all day to complete my list and I do not have a spare day.

p.s. It is not true that people over 50 in the UK took an easy driving test, the test was just as hard as it is today and most people took/take at least two attempts to pass as the standards are so high , I think the people who did not take a driving test in the UK as it was introduced in 1935 are now too old to drive or are dead. 

[Changnam43]

20 hours ago, Khunwilko said:

I think you'll find there are more reasons for these deaths - not wearing a crash helmet is a significant factor. Although the mixing of fast and slow vehicles on poorly built roads would be a significant factor.

Motorcycles are of course very vulnerable in any case.

Your point about crash helmets is, of course, right.

Your other points are also valid.  But plenty of motorcycle deaths here are due to idiots in charge of a couple of tonnes of lethal machinery.  That is exactly how my father in law died.

I have lost count of the number of times I have gone round a blind bend only to see a car coming towards me on my side of the road.  These days my pulse doesn't even raise in such circumstances.

[Poolie]

3 minutes ago, JamesR said:

1) You can buy a driving licence.

2) The Thai driving test is a joke in Thailand, you spend ten minutes an a small off road test track with no other cars on the test track, a ten year old kid could pass.

3) Some people drive through red lights.

4) Many People drive the wrong way down streets.

5) Cars do not stop at pedestrian zebra crossings.

6) Many people use their mobile phone while driving including motorbikes where they drive with one hand.

7) Motorcycles overtake you on your left even when you indicating to turn left.

8) Most cars have their windows blacked out even the windscreen thus they can not see so clearly in the dark. 

9) It is illegal in most countries to have three to six people on a motorbike as I have seen many times in Thailand, making them less manoeuvrable, and when one accident happens then up to six people will be injured or dead in one accident. 

I worked in Germany, the USA, Holland, UK, Sweden, Denmark for years and drove on those roads, I have never had an accident as the drivers in those countries stick to the rules.

I have driven in Thailand for many years from north to south, east to west and I have never had an accident as I drive in a very defensive way and have avoided countless accidents by getting out of the way.

I could go on but it would take all day to complete my list and I do not have a spare day.

p.s. It is not true that people over 50 in the UK took an easy driving test, the test was just as hard as it is today and most people took/take at least two attempts to pass as the standards are so high , I think the people who did not take a driving test in the UK as it was introduced in 1935 are now too old to drive or are dead. 

Sadly, the ones that are still kicking, still drive. With their hats on.

[cowslip]

32 minutes ago, Fester said:

All wrong - except for the "Thai drivers are in general used to driving in Thailand" bit - and even that doesn't make them competent.

please explain....