Important rules and behaviours for driving in Thailand

[JamesR]

3 hours ago, Fester said:

Another crass comment! The test structures and pass criteria differences in each country alone show which nationality will be better prepared to operate a vehicle safely. 

True, you can not build a house on weak foundations, a ten year old could pass the driving test in Thailand, it is so plain and obvious to see but farangs on this site seem to be defending that fact. 

[JamesR]

4 hours ago, Benroon said:

Come on you only have to look at the ludicrous Thai driving test to see there's no way that can prepare you to be a good driver. It always makes me chuckle that whenever most thai drivers go into the slightest of bends they will always apply the brakes even when totally unneccessary. 

Then of course the indicating problem, pure guesswork and now its routine to ignore bikes indicating to come across you as you assume the indicators been on since they left home - until of course they do turn across you !

What I find most baffling is the horrendous Thai road death figures (and it is horrendous) when so many of them poodle along at 18 miles an hour oblivious to the queue they're backing up, how can you get killed when I can walk quicker than most of them !

I watched about twenty people take their driving test on the 'Test Track' in Phuket.

You have to reverse into a parking space big enough to reverse a bus into, if you get it wrong you can have a few goes at it.

You go around a mini roundabout, over a bridge and stop, that is it, five minutes and there is no one else on the track with you so no other cars to avoid, it was so funny to watch.

In contrast in the UK people have about 30 hours lessons on real roads, the test on busy roads lasts 45 minutes and most people fail the first time.

My partner in Phuket passed her test the first time after about ten hours of lessons, she drove my car a few months later as I had had a beer, she was at the level we would be at in the UK after just having five hours of lessons. 

A few years on she has improved a lot, she now gets up to speeds of 50kms, but I do have to point out the traffic lights ahead.

[Benroon]

On 1/23/2022 at 10:00 AM, Khunwilko said:

you are using purely anecdotal evidence and it is even at best only tangential to the facts.

bollox - I'm going on what I see every day - perhaps you don't live here ?

[cowslip]

25 minutes ago, Benroon said:

bollox - I'm going on what I see every day - perhaps you don't live here ?

20 years and half a million KMs -  you're just gainsaying because you don't understand.

confirmation bias—a bias that results from the tendency to process and analyze information in such a way that it supports one's preexisting ideas and convictions.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Khunwilko

[JamesR]

24 minutes ago, Benroon said:

bollox - I'm going on what I see every day - perhaps you don't live here ?

Me too, when I am there for six months or a year trip I drive every day, the only way not see accidents, the very many near misses, the dangerous way in which many people drive would be to drive with my eyes closed.

Maybe that is one of the reasons for so many road deaths. 

 

[cowslip]

58 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Maybe that is one of the reasons for so many road deaths.

totally illogical, - how can they be?

[JamesR]

21 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

totally illogical, - how can they be?

I think people in London also drive with their eyes closed too as I have seen over the last four months of living there. 

[cowslip]

11 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I think people in London also drive with their eyes closed too as I have seen over the last four months of living there. 

Yet their death rate is one tenth of Thailand's?

I think you just look out of your window and see what you want to see.

There IS a significance difference in these pictures - I'll let you decide.

[cowslip]

a couple more BTW they are not necessarily London.....

(I used to be a M/C courier in London for a while)

 

 

[cowslip]

17 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I think people in London also drive with their eyes closed too as I have seen over the last four months of living there. 

So how can they be???

I can give you photos of crashes from every country in the world - it doesn't prove a thing.

If you go on Youtube some of the "best" are from Russia, China and the USA.......

How do you make a collision more "serious"???

Think about it - there is an answer but if I tell you ,you won't believe it your cognitive dissonance won't allow you.

[cowslip]

28 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I think people in London also drive with their eyes closed too as I have seen over the last four months of living there. 

So now London is as dangerous as Thailand??

[JamesR]

21 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

Yet their death rate is one tenth of Thailand's?

I think you just look out of your window and see what you want to see.

There IS a significance difference in these pictures - I'll let you decide.

I was comparing London driving style to my 27 years of living 30 miles outside, totally different driving style.

So nothing in life we experience can be useful then as we are biased about everything? I wonder how the witness system works in courts then, is all of the evidence ignored as it is biased?

Don't list out the 5E's again or whatever you call them.

 

[JamesR]

22 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

So how can they be???

I can give you photos of crashes from every country in the world - it doesn't prove a thing.

If you go on Youtube some of the "best" are from Russia, China and the USA.......

How do you make a collision more "serious"???

Think about it - there is an answer but if I tell you ,you won't believe it your cognitive dissonance won't allow you.

Just using phrases from a psychology book at random does not mean anything.

So if a surveyor surveyed houses in one country for 20 years and then surveyed houses in another country for 20 years and found that there were more defects on average in one of the countries we have to ignore him as he is biased as he is not really reporting what he sees happening?

[JamesR]

18 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

So now London is as dangerous as Thailand??

That is the problem, you put two and two together and make five.

 

[cowslip]

8 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I was comparing London driving style to my 27 years of living 30 miles outside, totally different driving style.

So nothing in life we experience can be useful then as we are biased about everything? I wonder how the witness system works in courts then, is all of the evidence ignored as it is biased?

Don't list out the 5E's again or whatever you call them.

You're just gainsaying and using reductio ad absurdum - or you simply don't understand evidence and how it is used ad gathered

But it is fairly clear that you have spent a life-time misunderstanding te evidence before you.

BTW - I used cover thousands of miles all over UK in private vehicles and trucks - one year I actually clocked up 90,000 miles in one vehicle - I drove extensively around London several times a week and covered the rest of UK and Western Europe as part of my job. There is hardly a road in England and Wales I haven't covered.

I lived in London both north nd South as well as the midlands the North East, West Country and Wales. 

But As I said I worked in a Traffic Engineering department for a large City and that's where I learned to understand what I was looking at.

You also obviously don't know what the 5 Es are or you wouldn't attribute them to me - they are the pillars of  internationally recognised "Safe System" which again is something you know nothing about which is why you don't understand road safety and what is happening on the roads of Thailand.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Khunwilko

[JamesR]

33 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

(I used to be a M/C courier in London for a while)

Was that when there were only horses and carts on the road?

 

 

[cowslip]

8 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Just using phrases from a psychology book at random does not mean anything.

So if a surveyor surveyed houses in one country for 20 years and then surveyed houses in another country for 20 years and found that there were more defects on average in one of the countries we have to ignore him as he is biased as he is not really reporting what he sees happening?

you really don't understand do you - that would be a result of compiled statistics not confirmation bias - it's like talking to a brick wall.

[JamesR]

3 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

You're just gainsaying and using reductio ad absurdum - or you simply don't understand evidence and how it is used ad gathered

But it is fairly clear that you have spent a life-time misunderstanding te evidence before you.

BTW - I used cover thousands of miles all over UK in private vehicles and trucks - one year I actually clocked up 90,000 miles in one vehicle - I drove extensively around London several times a week and covered the rest of UK and Western Europe as part of my job. There is hardly a road in England and Wales I haven't covered.

You said, "BTW - I used cover thousands of miles all over UK in private vehicles and trucks - one year I actually clocked up 90,000 miles in one vehicle - I drove extensively around London several times a week and covered the rest of UK and Western Europe as part of my job. There is hardly a road in England and Wales I haven't covered."

But none of what you saw while doing all of those miles is valid as you're just gainsaying and using reductio ad absurdum - or you simply don't understand evidence and how it is used and gathered.

 

[cowslip]

1 minute ago, JamesR said:

You said, "BTW - I used cover thousands of miles all over UK in private vehicles and trucks - one year I actually clocked up 90,000 miles in one vehicle - I drove extensively around London several times a week and covered the rest of UK and Western Europe as part of my job. There is hardly a road in England and Wales I haven't covered."

But none of what you saw while doing all of those miles is valid as you're just gainsaying and using reductio ad absurdum - or you simply don't understand evidence and how it is used and gathered.

you point being??

[JamesR]

Just now, Khunwilko said:

you really don't understand do you - that would be a result of compiled statistics not confirmation bias - it's like talking to a brick wall.

Except you just told me you drove all those miles around the UK and Europe as though your experience was valid, but everyone else's is not,  it is like talking to a brick wall with brain damage.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

[JamesR]

1 minute ago, Khunwilko said:

you point being??

 

1 minute ago, Khunwilko said:

you point being??

I am off now as this circular argument has become boring, I think there is some paint for me to look at while it is drying. 

[cowslip]

54 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I am off now as this circular argument has become boring, I think there is some paint for me to look at while it is drying. 

 

You say the high death rate in Thailand is because “Thais are bad drivers”

You say you see lots of evidence of this

However the number of collisions in Thailand is about the same as in the UK

 

So what you think you see is not backed up by the facts

Next you rely on one statistic only to back up your “bad driving “ hypothesis

 

Well using that statistic we find that UK has one tenth or more the number of fatalities than Thailand with th same number of crashes.

You don’t explain why you think that is.

 

You claim “experience” of driving as a back up – Well, I’ve had more “experience of driving than you in both UK and Thailand (and other countries too) ….but I’ve told you why I don’t consider that important on it’s own. You may also notice I seldom resort to personal anecdote to back up my argument as I know how misleading it can be

What is important is an understanding of road safety and an ability to use critical thinking rather than “seeing is believing” – which quite frankly verges on the naïve and banal.

 

So what you have to do is define “bad driving” and then explain how it leads to the same number of colliosns as in UK but ten times s many deaths.

 

 

[cowslip]

57 minutes ago, JamesR said:

xcept you just told me you drove all those miles around the UK and Europe as though your experience was valid, but everyone else's is not,  i

"But As I said I worked in a Traffic Engineering department for a large City and that's where I learned to understand what I was looking at."

 

Quite the opposite read my post. I guess you don't bother. you are still relying on confirmation bass and cognitive dissonance.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Khunwilko

[cowslip]

25 minutes ago, Transam said:

I have on this longish thread, has anyone actually agreed with your theory, if they did, I missed it.....

No one has argued against it - it's not my Theory - it it the Safe System - it is agrees by such organisations as the Swedish government, the UK government, RoSPa, the WHO Australian State governments, New Zealand Governments  most countries in the EU, safety organisation all over the world - yet you think you know better but can't raise a single counter argument.

Here are just some of the organisations who agree with me

Some of the organizations include…

·      The World Health Organization (WHO)  - https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/thailand/roadsafety/overview-en-final-25-7-19.pdf?sfvrsn=f9d7a862_2

·      Save the children Thailand - https://thailand.savethechildren.net/sites/thailand.savethechildren.net/files/library/Save%20the%20Children’s%20Work%20in%20Road%20Safety%20-%20The%207%25%20Project_1.pdf

·      ThaiRoads Foundation - http://www.thairoads.org/en/

·      International Road Assessment Program (iRAP) and Chulalongkorn University - https://irap.org/2018/11/new-thai-centre-of-excellence-chulalongkorn-university/

·      The Embassy of Sweden is coordinating a group called “the Embassy Friends of Road Safety (EFRS) - https://scandasia.com/tag/the-embassy-friends-of-road-safety-efrs/

·      Thailand Road Safety Observatory, TRSO -=http://www.atransociety.com/resources/pdf/pdfResearch2013-2018/2014/Project2014-006(Dr.Paramet).pdf

·      Arrive Alive - Association of Southeast Asian Nations Regional Road Safety Strategy and Action Plan (2005–2010) - https://www.adb.org/publications/arrive-alive-asean-regional-road-safety-and-action-plan-2005-2010

·      ASEAN TRANSPORT STRATEGIC PLAN 2016-2025 - https://www.itf-oecd.org/asean-transport-strategic-plan-2016-2025-and-progress-road-safety-initiatives

·      EU/ASEAN - https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/eu-and-asean-exchange-knowledge-and-best-practices-road-safety_en

·      Australia, Safe System Solutions  - https://www.austrade.gov.au/news/success-stories/australian-consultancy-helps-improve-road-safety-in-thailand

·      Bloomberg Philanthropies Initiative for Global Road Safety - https://www.bloomberg.org/public-health/improving-road-safety/

·      Office of Transport & Traffic Policy & Planning(OTP), Ministry of Transport - https://www.mot.go.th/about.html?dsfm_lang=EN&id=12

·      Thai RSC. - Accident road safety Data for Thailand - http://www.thairsc.com/eng/

·      World Bank - https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2019/03/26/working-towards-improving-road-safety-and-saving-lives-in-thailand

 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Khunwilko

[KaptainRob]

^ As we all know the 5E's or 'safe system' mean SFA to Thai's, Government agencies or drivers.  They do it their way ... (almost a song title) ... anyway, in rebuttal to JamesR ...

I've just returned from 6 days away in deepest darkest Isaan - Khon Kaen, Roi Et, Yasothon, Ubon Ratchathani and almost to SiSaket.  A mere 2,200 km round trip, but one I used to do more frequently 5 to 10 years back.

Observations:-  

Road infrastructure is generally well maintained and there are many re-surfacing projects underway all across the route.   They produce some great roads and new concrete surfaces are smoother than many Aussie highways.

Major works include under & over passes at major junctions, some already complete.  The door to door trip from home to the wife's baan has 40 km's shaved off it as a result of road upgrades.

Unlike JamesR, in 11 years I have never witnessed an accident.  I have seen the aftermath of a few, and perhaps this is what he refers to (?)  I vividly recall passing a dead body in the middle of an intersection in Phitsanoluk, a motorbike rider having been (apparently) thrown from is bike ... must've just happened as no rescue vehicles on site.

This trip we saw only 2 incident sites, no fatalities.  One was a truck and trailer on highway off ramp, the trailer full of glass (bottles?) had flipped on its side, a possible jack knife or mechanical failure.  The other was kind of funny, middle of remote national forest and single lanes, an old overloaded pickup sat astride the west bound lane on its diff!  The rear suspension had collapsed.

It was a good trip and we encountered the usual idiots.  The only potential idiot-accident being of a a pickup passing on double lines, down hill on a blind corner at ~ 90 kmph.

Edit:  Never saw any Police presence the entire trip!  Not even tea-money collections.