Important rules and behaviours for driving in Thailand

[Fester]

16 hours ago, ctxa said:

In 3-4 years I've driven around 200k km in Thailand, and a bunch of those with a 600HP Mercedes-AMG E63 (that I daily drive). And trust me boy, you need a certain degree of skills to handle those horses and not end up spinning out or worse.

My hero. 

[cowslip]

5 hours ago, Transam said:

What you have done or can do here has nothing to do with grasping the basics in LOS. You have learned nothing about the road use mindset here, face, wanting to be first, etc. I have..

Anyone can write that, but please give some examples of how you know so much more than I do about "the basics in LOS".

Lets have some examples either way to support your argument. Try not to be racist.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Khunwilko

[Smithydog]

Note from the Moderators

Ok. Let's get back onto discussing the topic at hand and not comparing the size of our knowledge. 

Everyone is touched by different experiences and hence why opinions can differ. I have seen plenty of so called "experts" proven completely wrong and a similar number of the "uneducated" on a subject make silly remarks.

Moderator

[JamesR]

3 hours ago, Transam said:

Firstly, I am not a racist, I am actually married to an Asian, so please don't even think to go down that route, I am OK with spelling mistakes though....

How about, folk will not let you out of a side turning, they will edge bumper to bumper in traffic just so you can't get out.

Reversing, doing a three point turn, will they let you complete your manoeuvre, well I reckon 90% will try and get by you. 

Hows that for starters....

While driving in the UK I see a road-side one accident on average about every five years or so.

I Thailand I come across one a week on average.

[cowslip]

7 hours ago, Transam said:

I am not a racist, I am actually married to an Asian,

Can't believe you resorted to that cliche.

[cowslip]

4 hours ago, JamesR said:

While driving in the UK I see a road-side one accident on average about every five years or so.

I Thailand I come across one a week on average.

Yet the number of collisions are about the same - how do you explain that?

[cowslip]

 

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Perceptions about “bad driving” are not scientific they are misleading. Unfortunately people don’t appreciate this.

When it comes to road safety – “seeing is believing” is most definitely NOT the case…..

The concept of “bad driving” is subjective and is tangential to solving the road safety problem – As the World Health Organisation Country Office for Thailand tells us “If human fallibility is an unfortunate constant, we must work to make our road and traffic systems as safe as possible – this is the Safe System”

The Thailand Road Safety Master Plan 2018-2021 commits to broad Safe System/Towards Zero principles. Unfortunately although there are many who understand the reality of this concept, few in authority seem to want to enforce it or even understand it. As said the Safe System has been repeatedly mooted at road safety conferences in ASEAN and Thailand but until it is actually adopted – no significant changes will happen – we are left with the archaic thinking demonstrated over and over on this thread.

 

“During the last three decades research into road trauma prevention has evolved from a road user approach to a systems-based approach that is based on sound evidence. The Safe System approach to road safety consists of acknowledging the limitations of the human body to withstand physical force at the centre of road injury prevention, and recognizing crash responsibility should be shared by all those involved in the design, construction, operation and use of the transport system, especially designers” -  (WHO 2004).

 

The 2 main enemies of clear thinking on road safety are confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance…… It is important to overcome them….

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Khunwilko

[JamesR]

54 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

Yet the number of collisions are about the same - how do you explain that?

Except they are not.

[JamesR]

56 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

Can't believe you resorted to that cliche.

A bloke I know was accused of being a racist,  he said "No I am not, I can't be as I am married to a Chink".

I had to laugh.

(She was Chinese Thai).

But in any case we white people come across racism quite often, as we are white and say something about anyone who is not white then we are automatically deemed racist. 

[cowslip]

19 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Except they are not.

Yes they are . UK = 335 per day, Thailand around 336 a day.

obviously no explanation from you, then.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Khunwilko

[cowslip]

13 minutes ago, JamesR said:

A bloke I know was accused of being a racist,  he said "No I am not, I can't be as I am married to a Chink".

I had to laugh.

(She was Chinese Thai).

But in any case we white people come across racism quite often, as we are white and say something about anyone who is not white then we are automatically deemed racist. 

Oh dear - we are now entering a litany of racist cliches "they're racist too, you know" - CLICHE!!

It is of course pertinent to people's attitude to road safety in Thailand, rather then think about WHY it really happens it's much easier to say "all Thais are bad drivers" -

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Khunwilko

[JamesR]

19 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

Yes they are . UK = 335 per day, Thailand around 336 a day.

obviously no explanation from you, then.

I haven't bothered to look up the numbers to verify them.

Perhaps the Thais are better at killing themselves than we are, they have more death skills, as there are around 1750 deaths on UK roads per year with Thailand at around 25,000.

[cowslip]

Just now, JamesR said:

I haven't bothered to look up the numbers to verify them.

Perhaps the Thais are better at killing themselves than we are, they have more death skills, as there are around 1750 deaths on UK roads per year with Thailand at around 25,000.

If you look back on this rather long thread, I've pointed this out before and it seriously questions  the concept of Thais as "bad drivers" - it is however answered in the 5Es - such as road design and engineering but one big factor has to be emergency services.

What it shows is that people are not looking at the problem of road safety in the right way. Check out the 5 Es and you'll see several reasons why the death rates are so different for similar numbers of collisions. Remember too the UK has (or had) one of the lowest death rates in the world. 

[JamesR]

20 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

Oh dear - we are now entering a litany of racist cliches "they're racist too, you know" - CLICHE!!

It is of course pertinent to people's attitude to road safety in Thailand, rather then think about WHY it really happens it's much easier to say "all Thais are bad drivers" -

Every person in the world is a racist to some extent whether they admit it or not by the current definition of racism which is a shame.

I suppose what people are saying is the vast number of vehicles on Thai roads are driven by Thais, the vast number of drivers in farang-countries are farang drivers and so if Thailand has fourteen times the number of roads deaths than farang countries then they must be bad driving standards for whatever reason.

If that is racist then everything anyone says is racist. 

[JamesR]

1 minute ago, Khunwilko said:

If you look back on this rather long thread, I've pointed this out before and it seriously questions  the concept of Thais as "bad drivers" - it is however answered in the 5Es - such as road design and engineering but one big factor has to be emergency services.

What it shows is that people are not looking at the problem of road safety in the right way. Check out the 5 Es and you'll see several reasons why the death rates are so different for similar numbers of collisions. Remember too the UK has (or had) one of the lowest death rates in the world. 

I can't be bothered, I can say over the 30+ years I have been going there sometimes for a year at a time I have seen for myself, on every journey I take while driving I see multiple poor driving examples which are down right dangerous.

Multiply that by millions and that is the main reason.

I am sure this will cause you to go through the 5Es again, but as a builder can not build a house in shifting ground then the 5E's can not be implemented until the basics have been implemented such as a better standard of driving. 

 

[cowslip]

13 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Every person in the world is a racist to some extent whether they admit it or not by the current definition of racism which is a shame.

I suppose what people are saying is the vast number of vehicles on Thai roads are driven by Thais, the vast number of drivers in farang-countries are farang drivers and so if Thailand has fourteen times the number of roads deaths than farang countries then they must be bad driving standards for whatever reason.

If that is racist then everything anyone says is racist. 

Add that to the litany - Racism is learned  - it's not inherent. 

As said your theory on road safety is based on a false syllogism and is about 40 years out of date and appears to be based on race.

"“During the last three decades research into road trauma prevention has evolved from a road user approach to a systems-based approach that is based on sound evidence" - WHO 

 

40 years ago most countries in Europe (and the USA) had similar death rates to the  rates Thai has now. By your theory they must have all been Thai back then.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Khunwilko

[JamesR]

4 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

Add that to the litany - Racism is learned  - it's not inherent. 

As said your theory on road safety is based on a false syllogism and is about 40 years out of date and appears to be based on race.

"“During the last three decades research into road trauma prevention has evolved from a road user approach to a systems-based approach that is based on sound evidence" - WHO 

40 years ago most countries in Europe (and the USA) had similar death rates to the  rates Thai has now. By your theory they must have all been Thai back then.

You are making things up and piecing tougher things I have never said, look in the mirror and argue with yourself. 

[cowslip]

29 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I can't be bothered, I can say over the 30+ years I have been going there sometimes for a year at a time I have seen for myself, on every journey I take while driving I see multiple poor driving examples which are down right dangerous.

Multiply that by millions and that is the main reason.

I am sure this will cause you to go through the 5Es again, but as a builder can not build a house in shifting ground then the 5E's can not be implemented until the basics have been implemented such as a better standard of driving. 

It's not me, it's the scientific community's consensus.

You are just employing confirmation bias.

As I said until you realise this you won't be able to understand road safety in Thailand - or anywhere else.

[cowslip]

31 minutes ago, JamesR said:

e basics have been implemented such as a better standard of driving. 

I don't think you've even read the 5 Es - certainly you don't understand them. They ARE the basics.

[cowslip]

42 minutes ago, JamesR said:

they have more death skills

What are they?

[cowslip]

38 minutes ago, JamesR said:

they must be bad driving standards for whatever reason.

So what do you think that reason is (reasons are)?

[cowslip]

21 minutes ago, JamesR said:

You are making things up

What an I making up? 

[cowslip]

22 minutes ago, JamesR said:

You are making things up and piecing tougher things I have never said, look in the mirror and argue with yourself. 

You said " the vast number of vehicles on Thai roads are driven by Thais, the vast number of drivers in farang-countries are farang drivers and so if Thailand has fourteen times the number of roads deaths than farang countries then they must be bad driving standards for whatever reason."

but "Farang countries" used to have that same death rate - by your logic they must have been Thai 

[JamesR]

15 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

You said " the vast number of vehicles on Thai roads are driven by Thais, the vast number of drivers in farang-countries are farang drivers and so if Thailand has fourteen times the number of roads deaths than farang countries then they must be bad driving standards for whatever reason."

but "Farang countries" used to have that same death rate - by your logic they must have been Thai 

That conclusion is totally illogical. 
 

The only conclusion you could draw is farang were crap drivers then and Thais are still crappy drivers. 

[JamesR]

33 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

It's not me, it's the scientific community's consensus.

You are just employing confirmation bias.

As I said until you realise this you won't be able to understand road safety in Thailand - or anywhere else.

If I travel to china and spend ten years traveling to all parts and I notice most people are Chinese I can safely assume most people are chinese. 
 

I have noticed on every car journey I have made over the last thirty years in Thailand the driving standard is poor and dangerous. I have see a number of people killed and injured. 
 

I can safely state Thai driving skills are poor for whatever reason that is and is a major contributor to the high death rate.  That is a logical co conclusion. 
 

I have observed while driving for decades in the Uk the standard of driving and adherence to rules is a higher standard. There are relatively fewer deaths. I therefore conclude that is a major contributor to low road deaths. 
 

if you think a vehicle traveling the wrong way down a highway and all the other poor driving incidents I see every time I drive do not contribute to the high number of deaths then you are illogical.