Important rules and behaviours for driving in Thailand

[cowslip]

On 1/9/2022 at 2:52 AM, JamesR said:

Road deaths UK about 1750 a year, Thailand 25,000.

yet the number of collisions is about the same and in a 4-wheeled vehicle you are slightly less likely to die than in the USA.

UK = 335 per day

 122,635 recorded in 2018 – that's around 336 a day.

 

 

Thailand over New Year, 1,339 over 3 days = 445 average per day

There is a round a 25% to 30% difference in CRASHES

Yet . ..

USA = 11 per 100,000

Thailand 22 per 100,000

UK 2.9 per 100,000

so it's not the tests/

BTW - I tax my car every year at the DLT, take people for tests and licences, renew my Car passport (purple book) and have plenty of time to observe the antics ata test centre - but it doesn't account for a death rate 10 times that of the UK. You have to take into account the 5 Es.

 

 

[Guest1]

Was this posted, already?

(I think there is one from mid 80s, somewhere, but can't find it)

http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0140_5.pdf

[cowslip]

18 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

Was this posted, already?

(I think there is one from mid 80s, somewhere, but can't find it)

http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0140_5.pdf

Yes - it is from 1979.

It appears still to be the only version available in English.

[JamesR]

12 hours ago, Khunwilko said:

yet the number of collisions is about the same and in a 4-wheeled vehicle you are slightly less likely to die than in the USA.

UK = 335 per day

 122,635 recorded in 2018 – that's around 336 a day.

 

 

Thailand over New Year, 1,339 over 3 days = 445 average per day

There is a round a 25% to 30% difference in CRASHES

Yet . ..

USA = 11 per 100,000

Thailand 22 per 100,000

UK 2.9 per 100,000

so it's not the tests/

BTW - I tax my car every year at the DLT, take people for tests and licences, renew my Car passport (purple book) and have plenty of time to observe the antics ata test centre - but it doesn't account for a death rate 10 times that of the UK. You have to take into account the 5 Es.

So let's not bother with test then, don't bother having them at all.

Number of collisions, the USA and UK have a lot more cars on the road at anyone time than Thailand, it all depends on the severity of collision, but let's skip over unimportant death rates and concentrate on accidents eh.

We could all be pilots as well as we could take a ten minutes test if the quality of training and testing is lowered. 

Just think we could all speak ''fluent'' Thai by just having a few hours of lessons and then pass a simple exam to allow us to teach Thai, we could apply this low test system to everything. 

[Fester]

15 hours ago, Khunwilko said:

yet the number of collisions is about the same and in a 4-wheeled vehicle you are slightly less likely to die than in the USA.

UK = 335 per day

 122,635 recorded in 2018 – that's around 336 a day.

 

 

Thailand over New Year, 1,339 over 3 days = 445 average per day

There is a round a 25% to 30% difference in CRASHES

Yet . ..

USA = 11 per 100,000

Thailand 22 per 100,000

UK 2.9 per 100,000

so it's not the tests/

BTW - I tax my car every year at the DLT, take people for tests and licences, renew my Car passport (purple book) and have plenty of time to observe the antics ata test centre - but it doesn't account for a death rate 10 times that of the UK. You have to take into account the 5 Es.

Are they part of the ee I ee I oh training?

[Bluesofa]

19 minutes ago, Fester said:

Are they part of the ee I ee I oh training?

Must be part of old MacDonald's acident figures:
With an accident here, and an accident there, EIEIO.

(The dyslexic version: Old MacDonald had a fram, ZYZYK)

[cowslip]

9 hours ago, Transam said:

That is a load of BS..........

..and that is cognitive dissonance.

[DesperateOldHand]

2 hours ago, Khunwilko said:

..and that is cognitive dissonance.

Of the highest order and original source.

[cowslip]

16 hours ago, JamesR said:

So let's not bother with test then, don't bother having them at all.

Number of collisions, the USA and UK have a lot more cars on the road at anyone time than Thailand, it all depends on the severity of collision, but let's skip over unimportant death rates and concentrate on accidents eh.

We could all be pilots as well as we could take a ten minutes test if the quality of training and testing is lowered. 

Just think we could all speak ''fluent'' Thai by just having a few hours of lessons and then pass a simple exam to allow us to teach Thai, we could apply this low test system to everything. 

 

“Number of collisions, the USA and UK have a lot more cars on the road at any one time than Thailand,” - this is not actually correct. 

Traffic density……

 in UK (78 per km - https://roadtraffic.dft.gov.uk/summary ) and 

 

Thailand (approx70 - https://www.boi.go.th/index.php?page=highways ) is about the same but they are increasing exponentially whilst UK is comparatively static.

 

– however

 Americans drive considerable more kms than either UK or Thailand but have a much lower density.( 38 -https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/9789264185715-20-en.pdf?expires=1641903232&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=ADCCADE3A4136EDC6A39FF2436AECB40)

 

 

 “it all depends on the severity of collision,”  so WHY are they more severe?

No one is skipping over anything except perhaps yourself

You need to ask WHY are the death rates so different in Thai accidents – “it all depends on the severity of collision” – can you explain why the numbers are so much higher?

 

 

“We could all be pilots as well as we could take a ten minutes test if the quality of training and testing is lowered. 

Just think we could all speak ''fluent'' Thai by just having a few hours of lessons and then pass a simple exam to allow us to teach Thai, we could apply this low test system to everything. “

This is “reduction ad absurdum” – it does point out how a short test does not prepare us for a life time of driving and continual education is required.

(see the 5 Es)

 

[cowslip]

for those of you who don't know about "Safe System" and target zero, here are the 5 Es

 

The 5 “E”s

The main pillars of the  Safe System can be defines as follows: - The 5 “E”s of road safety.

For over 3 decades Thailand has had various “Road Safety Action Plans” and has espoused the virtues of the 5 “E”s (it has to be said with little effect) ... but without them, Road Safety in Thailand is doomed.

 

1. Education

2. Enforcement

3. Engineering

4. Emergency

5. Evaluation

 

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

On 10/11/2021 at 6:54 PM, Disenfranchised said:

Driving in Thailand isn't that bad although you do need eyes in the back of your head especially during morning and evening rush hour. That's when the fleas embark on-mass onto the roads. The young ones have no fear (or sense) passing left, right, dodging here there and everywhere. 

It really isn't, sometimes you see a car here and there doing some rather "crazy" things. But in the end it's generally fine with cars. 

Things start to get worse when you see motorbikes squeezing through every tiny space they can find, running red lights, people sitting in the back of pickups... Then you realize why there are so many road deaths in Thailand, definitely not from cars (excluding pick-ups).

[cowslip]

13 minutes ago, ctxa said:

It really isn't, sometimes you see a car here and there doing some rather "crazy" things. But in the end it's generally fine with cars. 

Things start to get worse when you see motorbikes squeezing through every tiny space they can find, running red lights, people sitting in the back of pickups... Then you realize why there are so many road deaths in Thailand, definitely not from cars (excluding pick-ups).

73% of road deaths are motorcycles which represent about 50% of the vehicles on the road. I'm not sure what you man about pickups but on ALL roads world wide they re under the heading 4-wheeled private vehicles.

If you look at the death rates for private 4-wheeled vehicles in Thailand it is slightly less than for the USA.

It has to be said though, that the USA doesn't have a particularly good road safety record it self.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Khunwilko

[Vince]

On 10/11/2021 at 1:40 AM, Shade_Wilder said:

What is the hand signal for backing up an off ramp onto the highway?

I have seen it done a few times, but missed the proper gesture...

I once drove a rental truck in a "developed nation" that like stalling semi-randomly. Sure enough, it stalled and would NOT restart on a massive incline over a mountain. I had to coast backwards across four lanes of traffic to get to the shoulder (the offramp was too far).

If it can happen in a nation with nuclear weapons why not elsewhere? 

[cowslip]

Just now, Vince said:

I once drove a rental truck in a "developed nation" that like stalling semi-randomly. Sure enough, it stalled and would NOT restart on a massive incline over a mountain. I had to coast backwards across four lanes of traffic to get to the shoulder (the offramp was too far).

If it can happen in a nation with nuclear weapons why not elsewhere? 

Most of the "bad driving" described by casual observers can be seen in every country in the world. 

(take a look at tube crash videos and they are largely China Russia and USA) 

Most accidents are the result of "human error" but one has to understand what that is.

 

What is “human error”?

Human error is not “bad driving”, it is a normal occurrence. It has been shown that human error falls largely into one of three principle categories[1].

 

First is a perceptual error. Critical information that is below the threshold for seeing - the light was too dim, the driver was blinded by the glare, or the pedestrian's clothes had low contrast. In other cases, the driver made a perceptual misjudgement (a curve's radius or another car's speed or distance). Or in Thailand, just tinted windows!

 

Second and far more common cause is that the critical information was detectable but that the driver failed to attend/notice because his mental resources were focussed elsewhere. Often times, a driver will claim that s/he did not "see" a plainly visible pedestrian or car. This is entirely possible because much of our information processing occurs outside of awareness. - (Mack and Rock, 1998)[2]

 

Third, the driver may correctly process the information but fail to choose the correct response ("I'm skidding, so I'll turn away from the skid") or make the correct decision yet fail to carry it out ("I meant to hit the brake, but I hit the gas"). 

 

---

[1] https://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/roadaccidents.html

[2] (Mack and Rock (1998) have shown that we can be less likely to perceive an object if we are looking directly at it than if it falls outside the centre of the visual field. This "inattentional blindness" phenomenon is certainly the cause of many RTIs)

 

 

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

38 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

I'm not sure what you man about pickups but on ALL roads world wide they re under the heading 4-wheeled private vehicles.

Yes I’m aware of the fact that pick ups are effectively under the heading 4-wheeled private vehicles. 
 

But you will see that in Thailand more road deaths occur in pick up than in other 4-wheeled private vehicles. This I believe happens because you can’t sit 20 fellas in the back of car. 
 

That’s what I meant by “excluding pick-ups”, it’s not that they belong to a different category than cars, it’s just that misusing them to sit people where they shouldn’t makes them more deadly in Thailand .

Edited January 11, 2022 by ctxa

[Vince]

Just now, Khunwilko said:

Most of the "bad driving" described by casual observers can be seen in every country in the world. 

(take a look at tube crash videos and they are largely China Russia and USA) 

Most accidents are the result of "human error" but one has to understand what that is.

What is “human error”?

Human error is not “bad driving”, it is a normal occurrence. It has been shown that human error falls largely into one of three principle categories[1].

 

First is a perceptual error. Critical information that is below the threshold for seeing - the light was too dim, the driver was blinded by the glare, or the pedestrian's clothes had low contrast. In other cases, the driver made a perceptual misjudgement (a curve's radius or another car's speed or distance). Or in Thailand, just tinted windows!

 

Second and far more common cause is that the critical information was detectable but that the driver failed to attend/notice because his mental resources were focussed elsewhere. Often times, a driver will claim that s/he did not "see" a plainly visible pedestrian or car. This is entirely possible because much of our information processing occurs outside of awareness. - (Mack and Rock, 1998)[2]

 

Third, the driver may correctly process the information but fail to choose the correct response ("I'm skidding, so I'll turn away from the skid") or make the correct decision yet fail to carry it out ("I meant to hit the brake, but I hit the gas"). 

 

---

[1] https://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/roadaccidents.html

[2] (Mack and Rock (1998) have shown that we can be less likely to perceive an object if we are looking directly at it than if it falls outside the centre of the visual field. This "inattentional blindness" phenomenon is certainly the cause of many RTIs)

So the guy who parked his car in the pond and blamed gps....? 

[cowslip]

52 minutes ago, Vince said:

So the guy who parked his car in the pond and blamed gps....? 

As said single anecdotal events are not valid evidence.

[cowslip]

54 minutes ago, ctxa said:

But you will see that in Thailand more road deaths occur in pick up than in other 4-wheeled private vehicles. This I believe happens because you can’t sit 20 fellas in the back of car.

I'm aware that pickups can illegally carry passengers in the back etc but I can't find any statistics to suggest they account for a significant proportion of the deaths in 4-wheeled vehicles category.

There are concerns for the overall safety of pickups as opposed to sedans due to the nature of their construction - and large numbers on the roads of Thailand fall short of both passive and active safety features, They are essentially very old chassis design with high CoG and poor shock absorbing properties in an accident. however this category still compares positively with 4-wheeled stats for the USA.

Under "E" for engineering (vehicles) may vehicles in Thailand raise concerns in regards to safety and this may be an important factor in why the death rate to collision rate is so high in Thailand.

[Vince]

10 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

As said single anecdotal events are not valid evidence.

Touché!

[KaptainRob]

4 minutes ago, Transam said:

The more I read your posts on the subject, the more I think you don't live/drive in LOS....

You may well be correct Khun Trans.  Pickups definitely add additional, disproportionate, death statistics to the annual toll despite no such dissemination of data.  We see the local news reports.

Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Mae Hong Son, Phetchabun and other mountainous regions have many such accidents usually caused by poor driver skill, inattention, drink, or overloading with pax in the tray along with building materials or similar. 

Isaan's dead straight roads, whilst extremely well built, see a large number of single-vehicle, usually pickups, going off road into trees or ditches due to driver inattention, fatigue or alcohol and often with farm labourers thrown out.

KW is correct in the sense that pickups (trucks, SUV's) are structurally unsafe compared with sedans, however the majority of deaths I see is for 1 or 2 in the front cabin and 4 or more in the tray.  3 dead, 1 injured in this one >

[Mynemesis]

7 hours ago, ctxa said:

Yes I’m aware of the fact that pick ups are effectively under the heading 4-wheeled private vehicles. 
 

But you will see that in Thailand more road deaths occur in pick up than in other 4-wheeled private vehicles. This I believe happens because you can’t sit 20 fellas in the back of car. 
 

That’s what I meant by “excluding pick-ups”, it’s not that they belong to a different category than cars, it’s just that misusing them to sit people where they shouldn’t makes them more deadly in Thailand .

Be careful.  Met might be on here in one of his many aliases.   55555555

Edited January 12, 2022 by Mynemesis

[Marble-eye]

Anybody that has driven on Thai roads must be a pretty bad drivers themselves if they think that the Thai drivers are capable, they are not. And before the usual chant of 'racist' get's shouted from the rooftops I would just like to say that it is not their fault, it is the complete system that is at fault.

Richard Barrow has made a good point when he says:

"In the UK, the majority of people fail their driving test the first time. In Thailand, most people pass the practical test first time. A Thai friend told me he failed his multiple choice theory test and the examiner told him to pay her 500 baht and she would do it for him."

And he goes to say:

"my wife had her first driving lesson on a tuesday. I went away the following day and by the time I came back on the sunday she had passed her test. Couldn't even back the car out of the drive."

These are not isolated incidents, it is the norm and anybody that cannot see this is a ........., you fill in the blank.

 

 

 

 

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

1 hour ago, Marble-eye said:

Anybody that has driven on Thai roads must be a pretty bad drivers themselves if they think that the Thai drivers are capable, they are not. And before the usual chant of 'racist' get's shouted from the rooftops I would just like to say that it is not their fault, it is the complete system that is at fault.

Richard Barrow has made a good point when he says:

"In the UK, the majority of people fail their driving test the first time. In Thailand, most people pass the practical test first time. A Thai friend told me he failed his multiple choice theory test and the examiner told him to pay her 500 baht and she would do it for him."

And he goes to say:

"my wife had her first driving lesson on a tuesday. I went away the following day and by the time I came back on the sunday she had passed her test. Couldn't even back the car out of the drive."

These are not isolated incidents, it is the norm and anybody that cannot see this is a ........., you fill in the blank.

In the UK people die as well from road accidents. And specially if you check death rates for 4-wheeled private vehicles, death rate isn’t even that much lower in the UK compared to Thailand. 
 

I’ve seen Thais who drive better than you ever will and who have an amazing control of the cars balance, and Thais which switch lanes without even looking. You can’t generalize. But one thing is for sure, the huge number of road deaths here doesn’t come from cars, it comes from motorbikes.

[Marble-eye]

42 minutes ago, ctxa said:

In the UK people die as well from road accidents. And specially if you check death rates for 4-wheeled private vehicles, death rate isn’t even that much lower in the UK compared to Thailand. 
 

I’ve seen Thais who drive better than you ever will and who have an amazing control of the cars balance, and Thais which switch lanes without even looking. You can’t generalize. But one thing is for sure, the huge number of road deaths here doesn’t come from cars, it comes from motorbikes.

"I’ve seen Thais who drive better than you ever will and who have an amazing control of the cars balance"

You don't even know me, yet you know Thais that drive better than I ever will, it's a like me saying to you 'I know Thais that drive worse than you do' meaningless.

 

 

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

9 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

"I’ve seen Thais who drive better than you ever will and who have an amazing control of the cars balance"

You don't even know me, yet you know Thais that drive better than I ever will, it's a like me saying to you 'I know Thais that drive worse than you do' meaningless.

I don’t need to know you in order to know that you aren’t Lewis Hamilton, and even if you were, Thailand has Alex Albon, right? 
 

See my point? You can’t generalize and say “all Thai drivers are X”, because it simply wouldn’t be true. There’s many kinds of drivers in Thailand and everywhere in the world indeed.
 

Just like with the story you said about your friend who couldn’t even back the car after passing the test, I’m sure it’s true, but I’m also sure it’s the exception and no the norm. Otherwise it would be impossible to drive in Thailand. And as someone who has put over 40k km in Thai roads within the last year alone I can tell you that’s not the case.