WISE TRANSFERS

[gazmo16]

Hopefully Gummy has posted the answers we've all been looking for since he went right to the source and got it from the horses mouth so to speak. 

Edited October 17, 2021 by gazmo16
removed content

[Faz]

On 10/15/2021 at 9:22 AM, WilliamG said:

But obviously not to a Thai bank showing International Transfer for Mr Immigration, which is why many people use(d) Wise.

What good is 2 x 1,000 BHT transfers for Immigration purposes?

You cannot make a 'foreign' transfer over weekend periods.
If you submit a transfer request on a Friday, Wise notify you the funds will hit your Thai account Monday.

Due to the small amounts your requesting, Wise are making a local electronic payment from their existing Kasikorn account in Thailand. Try a 40/65K transfer and you'll be notified the transaction will be Monday.

As for FET's and Credit Advice receipts, these are issued by the Thai banks not Wise.
I have no idea the point your trying to make.

[GMoney2312]

4 minutes ago, Faz said:

If you submit a transfer request on a Friday, Wise notify you the funds will hit your Thai account Monday.

My Wise transfer from my Bank of America to my Thai account on Friday was there the same day.

[JamesE]

1 hour ago, WilliamG said:

And neither FTT or WTM are shown in the codes on the back page of the bank book.

Exactly! At one time I found a full list of codes. But did I download it? Nooooo... I'm an idiot.

[Faz]

4 minutes ago, GMoney2312 said:

My Wise transfer from my Bank of America to my Thai account on Friday was there the same day.

That would be dependent on time differences between the two Countries.
It could be Friday in Thailand but still Thursday in the USA.

[GMoney2312]

3 minutes ago, Faz said:

That would be dependent on time differences between the two Countries.
It could be Friday in Thailand but still Thursday in the USA.

Good point- I am 12 hours ahead, 14 on the west coast.

[Smithydog]

The Banking systems simply haven't either recognised the importance of such matters to Expats, simply don't care as they don't get much out of it, or are struggling to keep up with 3rd party program changes.

In the old days, the use of the SWIFT codes etc when doing international transfers helped isolate the transaction as International. It was clear and simple. Banks profited well from exchange rates etc. However consumers demanded greater options, faster speed, better rates etc. So the rise of alternatives to banks, more use of local currency accounts etc. 

One possible scenario is that one of the 2 banks involved has done some sort of regular software update, possibly dropping off coding that previously recognised the transfer for what it was. I have often seen such updates where the developers were totally unaware of the importance of something, simply because no-one told them, and it was removed believing it to be unnecessary. Often a later update restores it.

Ultimately if you are using it to support a Visa or extension, only one thing really counts. What will your local Thai Immigration Office accept. Just sounds like I may have to add more paperwork to the current long list. I am still way ahead of any bank exchange rate offer, even if the extra documents cost an added fee!

 

[Faz]

15 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

In the old days, the use of the SWIFT codes etc when doing international transfers helped isolate the transaction as International.

SWIFT codes are still used to identify the Bank.
Only Head Office branches have a SWIFT code, not the sub branches.

All foreign transactions therefore go through the HQ account, who then transfer it to your local branch account. It's how the HQ's make and record these local branch transfers that matters.
Bangkok Bank are the only bank where the HQ notifies the sub branch of the source of the transfer.

For example, if you have a Kasikorn account, your local Passbook will always code the transfers as 'local'.
The branch on request can issue a 'credit advice receipt' detailing the foreign transaction.
However if you request a statement from the HQ branch, the only one with a SWIFT code and through whom the transfer went through to your local branch, the HQ statement will always state 'International Transfer'.

It's an archaic banking system.

[Smithydog]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

It's an archaic banking system.

Yes it is.

For Wise and others, the use of domestic bank accounts has muddied the waters surrounding what are perceived as "international " transactions as funds in a currency in many cases don't actually cross the border. As consumers we expect something to be the actuality simply as we tend to complain when something appears out of the norm. For example, when something works better than what was actually designed.

Wise seems to be quite open with what customers have to do if you need to show it as an international transaction, including Bangkok Bank as follows:

https://wise.com/help/articles/2932335/guide-to-thb-transfers?origin=search-do+I+need+a+swift+code+to+use+Wise

From the same article they also state the following:

"If you know you definitely need a FET, it’s best that you send a SWIFT transfer with your bank this time. SWIFT is a more expensive method, because it’s not a local transfer. But it does mean you’ll be able to prove that the money came from abroad."

I was surprised when I read this as my personal experiences in using Wise far exceed what they stated. Perhaps our expectations are now higher, rightly or wrongly, simply as we may have experienced them achieving better than they promoted.

[WilliamG]

2 hours ago, Faz said:

What good is 2 x 1,000 BHT transfers for Immigration purposes?

You cannot make a 'foreign' transfer over weekend periods.
If you submit a transfer request on a Friday, Wise notify you the funds will hit your Thai account Monday.

Due to the small amounts your requesting, Wise are making a local electronic payment from their existing Kasikorn account in Thailand. Try a 40/65K transfer and you'll be notified the transaction will be Monday.

As for FET's and Credit Advice receipts, these are issued by the Thai banks not Wise.
I have no idea the point your trying to make.

I think you're guessing here Faz about the small amounts. One member said earlier that he did a Bht 1000 last week and it arrived as an FTT. 

I do not want to do my 'big' transfer in the first week of November if it is not going to show as an International transfer, as the past two years have done. I would like to know so that then I can resort to a SWIFT directly from my UK bank.

[WilliamG]

16 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

"If you know you definitely need a FET, it’s best that you send a SWIFT transfer with your bank this time.

Wonder what they mean by 'this time'. Are they saying that it is only a temporary glitch and that 'next time' it should be back to the way it was, or what.

[Faz]

4 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

From the same article they also state the following:

"If you know you definitely need a FET, it’s best that you send a SWIFT transfer with your bank this time. SWIFT is a more expensive method, because it’s not a local transfer. But it does mean you’ll be able to prove that the money came from abroad."

Wise are confusing the common terms used within Thailand and that example is a direct bank transfer from foreign bank to Thai bank - that still makes no difference regarding the Passbook coding, with the exception of Bangkok bank.

FTT in a Passbook 'Foreign Telex transfer'.

FET is a 'foreign exchange transfer' form as far as Thai banks are concerned, issued by Thai banks, but only when the bank through which it went is not the same as you bank with, as proof of a International transfer.

For example if you bank with SCB, regardless of which Kasikorn, BKK, or TMB Wise account it goes through it will always be coded as a local transfer in your SCB Passbook. In this case you need to request an FET form from the bank that initiated the transfer. (BKK, TMB or KK in the case of Wise transfers).

 

[Smithydog]

2 minutes ago, WilliamG said:

Wonder what they mean by 'this time'. Are they saying that it is only a temporary glitch and that 'next time' it should be back to the way it was, or what.

Could be but think it is more likely they are simply following on from the previous sentence. Here are the sentences which might clarify it for you.

"Sometimes, we might send your transfer through a different banking partner who can’t provide a FET. This might be because of a technical issue, or some other unforeseen event.

If you know you definitely need a FET, it’s best that you send a SWIFT transfer with your bank this time. SWIFT is a more expensive method, because it’s not a local transfer. But it does mean you’ll be able to prove that the money came from abroad."

[Faz]

11 minutes ago, WilliamG said:

I think you're guessing here Faz about the small amounts. One member said earlier that he did a Bht 1000 last week and it arrived as an FTT. 

Guessing nothing, it's fact that International transfers do not take place outside of banks opening hours.
Why do you think the Wise exchange rates don't move over the weekend. Because the markets are closed.

I've just taken a screenshot of a Wise transaction as of 1300 today.

 

Why is the rate guaranteed for 26 hours?

Should arrive by date - 18th (tomorrow) Why?

[WilliamG]

On 10/12/2021 at 6:37 AM, gummy said:

I did a transfer yesterday to check and it arrived in Bangkok Bank pm as per normal and denoted FTT. Maybe yours was a fluke ?

How much was that transfer for please Gummy, as Faz says anything below about Bht40k will not show as an FTT.

[BlueSphinx]

39 minutes ago, WilliamG said:

I do not want to do my 'big' transfer in the first week of November if it is not going to show as an International transfer, as the past two years have done. I would like to know so that then I can resort to a SWIFT directly from my UK bank.

It sometimes happens that even if you have a Bangkok Bank account that Wise  transferred the funds via Kasikorn Bank or TMB, and in that case the funds won't show up as 'FTT' in your bankbook.

So how to deal with this when you have another bank than Bangkok Bank (or in the rare case that the funds were not routed via Bangkok Bank HQs)?

Just check on your Wise account for the details of the transfer you made and the Wise Transfer receipt will show via which of the three TW partner banks the money was transferred to your account.

Then contact that partner bank and they will advise on their procedure of how to obtain the relevant ‘Foreign Exchange Transfer form’ for confirmation of an overseas transfer. Of course, you need to provide them with the relevant details of the transfer you did (the Wise Transfer Receipt will contain all the required details), bring your passport and pay the fee for the service. The fee will depend on which of the 3 partner-banks handled your transfer, and normally you will receive the requested 'Foreign Transfer Receipt Form' on the spot or after a short delay.

Note: To print the Wise Transfer Receipt, log-in to your Wise account. In the screen with ACTIVITY then click the blue downward pointing arrow next to the transaction you want to print.
This opens a 2^nd screen which shows the steps in the process from your transfer to the receipt at your Thai bank-account.
Under the steps it says in blue 'Need some help?'
Clicking that box opens a 3^rd screen which will allow you to download the Transfer Receipt in PDF format. And that Transfer Receipt will provide evidence of the foreign origins of the funds you transferred and the routing they followed to your Thai bank-account.

>> Even if you have to make the effort - and possibly pay the small 100 or 200 THB fee - to get that FET-document at the partner-bank when your transfer does not show up as FTT on your Bangkok Bank account, it will as good as always be cheaper to do so than using a SWIFT transfer via your UK bank and the difference can be considerable if you are transferring a large sum of money as you intend to do.

[WilliamG]

3 hours ago, gummy said:

When you send from Wise do you send from Balance of your Wise account or do you send from "other" UK bank.

I did one of each today, GBP to THB and THB to THB. Both for 'long term stay' and were instant and not FTT. Usually when I have started a transfer on a Friday or Saturday, I got the message that it would arrive at 2pm on Monday, which it always did, as FTT in Bkk Bank. This was because human intervention was needed to direct the transfer accordingly. This process seems to have stopped, for me anyway, but still worked for you Gummy.

Does it really matter which method you use to get your money into Wise?

Edited October 17, 2021 by WilliamG

[Smithydog]

35 minutes ago, Faz said:

Wise are confusing the common terms used within Thailand and that example is a direct bank transfer from foreign bank to Thai bank - that still makes no difference regarding the Passbook coding, with the exception of Bangkok bank.

FTT in a Passbook 'Foreign Telex transfer'.

FET is a 'foreign exchange transfer' form as far as Thai banks are concerned, issued by Thai banks, but only when the bank through which it went is not the same as you bank with, as proof of a International transfer.

Are they confused, likely. Does that really matter? Well, if Wise are doing or allowing that to happen to the detriment of their business, then I would suggest its to their loss. Expats needing the facility operating correctly will likely consider the value and choose to either continue with them or move to other options.

The fact remains. The transaction itself is often just a transfer from a Thai domestic bank account to another Thai domestic bank account. If the desired code is added delivering the desired result, then brilliant!

Alternatively, Wise have stated clearly what they consider someone has to do if the final account is a Bangkok Bank account and wants it marked as an International Transfer, or an alternative option if more caution is felt to be needed.

I would love to see it easier. But my want and desire means nothing and it is up to members with the need deciding what is best for them to do. Frankly, unless someone makes representation to Wise, and probably the respective banks, to change it permanently (or fix the mistake) in line with what members feel should be happening, members are left with the choices of hoping the coding is correct or will be corrected, following the instructions given by Wise or @BlueSphinxabove or choose an alternative transfer mob!

After all, the only people you have to satisfy does not include me or any member. It is the Immigration Officers after all.

 

[gummy]

16 minutes ago, WilliamG said:

How much was that transfer for please Gummy, as Faz says anything below about Bht40k will not show as an FTT.

Totally untrue that. I did a trial transfer due to the comments on here for 1000 THB on Tuesday and as I said it was denoted FTT

[gummy]

9 minutes ago, WilliamG said:

I did one of each today, GBP to THB and THB to THB. Both for 'long term stay' and were instant and not FTT. Usually when I have started a transfer on a Friday or Saturday, I got the message that it would arrive at 2pm on Monday, which it always did, as FTT in Bkk Bank. This was because human intervention was needed to direct the transfer accordingly. This process seems to have stopped, for me anyway, but still worked for you Gummy.

Does it really matter which method you use to get your money into Wise?

Does it really matter which method you use to get your money into Wise?  Well that is what I am trying to determine for you.

Now you never said whether or not that GBP to THB transfer was from your Wise balance or from "other" bank. If "other" was it a UK bank ? As I said in the past I have known that if "other" was a non UK bank than there were issues related to how it was denoted on arrival. 

[WilliamG]

9 minutes ago, gummy said:

Does it really matter which method you use to get your money into Wise?  Well that is what I am trying to determine for you.

Now you never said whether or not that GBP to THB transfer was from your Wise balance or from "other" bank. If "other" was it a UK bank ? As I said in the past I have known that if "other" was a non UK bank than there were issues related to how it was denoted on arrival. 

I have done transfers GBP to THB both by using pre-transferred GBP in my Wise GBP account, also by transferring the GBP at the moment of transfer, and by transferring pre-converted THB. Never made any difference previously. Always arrived in my Bkk Bank at 2pm that day or the next, as an FTT.

[gummy]

Just now, WilliamG said:

I have done transfers GBP to THB both by using pre-transferred GBP in my Wise GBP account, also by transferring the GBP at the moment of transfer, and by transferring pre-converted THB. Never made any difference previously. Always arrived in my Bkk Bank at 2pm that day or the next, as an FTT.

Same for me but you seem to be avoiding the question I asked I have now asked twice to try and help you.

The transfers recently which prompted your earlier posts, were they by using an "other" bank ( ie not your wise balance) and was that "other" bank a UK bank or not ?

[WilliamG]

18 minutes ago, gummy said:

Totally untrue that. I did a trial transfer due to the comments on here for 1000 THB on Tuesday and as I said it was denoted FTT

And that is exactly why I did one on 9th October, which was last Saturday, so maybe Faz's suggestion that small amounts sent over the weekend are done directly locally, whereas a larger amount will be delayed until Monday. I shall do another Bht 1000 tomorrow.

[WilliamG]

1 minute ago, gummy said:

Same for me but you seem to be avoiding the question I asked I have now asked twice to try and help you.

I have done transfers GBP to THB both by using pre-transferred GBP in my Wise GBP account, also by transferring the GBP at the moment of transfer, and by transferring pre-converted THB. Never made any difference previously. Always arrived in my Bkk Bank at 2pm that day or the next, as an FTT.

[GMoney2312]

47 minutes ago, Faz said:

I've just taken a screenshot of a Wise transaction as of 1300 today.

Your Pound is kicking my Dollars ass!