Advice please, re the legals involved in a 'friendly' land purchase . . .

[King Cotton]

Attention @Faz and any member who has gone through the land purchase process and may have helpful comments.

Early 2014, soon after meeting and committing to my now Thai wife, Tas, and with the help of her father, a hugely respected village figure (a builder, too, which was more than handy!), we bought the 2/3 rai of land on which our house was immediately built and in which we have lived since then. The selling couple (Mr & Mrs 'Nice Guy', as we know them!) were our near neighbours and on very good terms with Tas and her dad, whilst Tas would be the buyer.

Because of the friendship and trust existing behind the purchase, it was a year or so later that both parties agreed to get the land transfer formalised at the local Amphoe office. And that's where my above query arose, since the Amphoe officer demanded a fee of 10,000 baht for stamping the ownership docs, cash that neither Tas nor Mrs Nice Guy had to hand, resulting in their returning home with papers unstamped. Tas, being only too well aware of 'dodgy' fees being charged during most Thai admin processes but not wanting to openly accuse the Amphoe of 'overcharging', agreed that we 'sit on the matter' for the time being.

With that now being all of five years ago, I'm thinking that we really ought to get those papers officially signed and stamped. Question is, is it known whether there are set (or standard) fees for having a land purchase agreement doc legalised, a process that had been previously shown to take less than 10 minutes?

 

[KaptainRob]

There's a stamp duty on transfer and land tax may be payable.  I assume a bona fide Chanote is in either your or Mr Nice Guys possession?

[gummy]

13 minutes ago, King Cotton said:

Attention @Faz and any member who has gone through the land purchase process and may have helpful comments.

Early 2014, soon after meeting and committing to my now Thai wife, Tas, and with the help of her father, a hugely respected village figure (a builder, too, which was more than handy!), we bought the 2/3 rai of land on which our house was immediately built and in which we have lived since then. The selling couple (Mr & Mrs 'Nice Guy', as we know them!) were our near neighbours and on very good terms with Tas and her dad, whilst Tas would be the buyer.

Because of the friendship and trust existing behind the purchase, it was a year or so later that both parties agreed to get the land transfer formalised at the local Amphoe office. And that's where my above query arose, since the Amphoe officer demanded a fee of 10,000 baht for stamping the ownership docs, cash that neither Tas nor Mrs Nice Guy had to hand, resulting in their returning home with papers unstamped. Tas, being only too well aware of 'dodgy' fees being charged during most Thai admin processes but not wanting to openly accuse the Amphoe of 'overcharging', agreed that we 'sit on the matter' for the time being.

With that now being all of five years ago, I'm thinking that we really ought to get those papers officially signed and stamped. Question is, is it known whether there are set (or standard) fees for having a land purchase agreement doc legalised, a process that had been previously shown to take less than 10 minutes?

 

Apologies if I have misunderstood your question but their is a transfer tax based on the assessed value of the land. This assessment is by the Land Department and is not debatable.

This is an extract I sent to another person a while back. I (wife and previous one) have always been liable to this tax on land purchases)

 

The Land Department imposes a transfer duty when a property's ownership is transferred. This tax is calculated as 2% of the property's official assessed value. Withholding Tax. 

Please note that property is considered as any immovable object being a house or land.  However there is a lesser amount to pay when transferring land to a direct relative. Forget now how much we paid in that instance but I think it is 0.1% of assessed  value but stand to be corrected.

[King Cotton]

15 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

I assume a bona fide Chanote

Chanote . . . is that the standard land purchase paper? If so, then yes, Mrs Nice Guy provided a copy for each of us, as we handed over the cash and which both she and Tas signed.

Do you think applicable stamp duty will be stated on a govt agency website? I've tried a bit of Googling but to no avail.

[gummy]

Just now, King Cotton said:

Chanote . . . is that the standard land purchase paper? If so, then yes, Mrs Nice Guy provided a copy for each of us, as we handed over the cash and which both she and Tas signed.

Do you think applicable stamp duty will be stated on a govt agency website? I've tried a bit of Googling but to no avail.

See my previous post it is where an English translation came from

[Faz]

As Rob stated, there is a stamp duty payable on the purchase price of the land.

From a previous experience at a Land office where I accompanied a young Thai lady.
She agreed to purchase a large plot of Land for 1 million baht.
The Land officer suggested they stated the sale price as 500,000 baht therefore halfling the cost of the stamp duty payable...... a good saving, but at a cost of 10,000 baht to the officer for the changes.

She still paid the seller 1 million baht, paid the stamp duty fee (on 500,000) and 10K to the officer.
She estimates she still saved 25K in overall costs.

I believe this is common practice at Land registry offices and probably what you encountered. 

[KaptainRob]

Chanote is the Title Deed with transfers recorded by Amphur office on back.  As Gummy said, 2% of land value is the stamp duty/transfer fee.  Land tax may also be payable.

[King Cotton]

13 minutes ago, gummy said:

The Land Department imposes a transfer duty when a property's ownership is transferred. This tax is calculated as 2% of the property's official assessed value. Withholding Tax.

Thank you, @gummy!   That may be just what I was looking for.

Cheers!

KC

[gummy]

Just now, KaptainRob said:

Chanote is the Title Deed with transfers recorded by Amphur office on back.  As Gummy said, 2% of land value is the stamp duty/transfer fee.  Land tax may also be payable.

Land tax is an annual assessment though which currently has been reduced to 0.1% of the assessed value and I understand values below 10 million baht are currently exempt

[KaptainRob]

2 minutes ago, Faz said:

I believe this is common practice at Land registry offices and probably what you encountered.

Not so common nowadays due to anti-corruption oversight however most people attempt to downplay the price actually paid.  Last time we did a transfer, going 50/50 with Thai vendor, she halved the contract value .... Officer gave her a sly look and reappraised the taxable value up by 50%.  Face and a few 1000 baht were all saved.

[King Cotton]

6 minutes ago, Faz said:

I believe this is common practice at Land registry offices and probably what you encountered. 

Thanks, @Faz! . . . the crafty, cheating thingamajigs, for want of a much ruder term. I'll do a little maths and then maybe the mrs and Mrs Nice Guy will arrange another visit to these nice people.

Cheers!

KC

[KaptainRob]

5 minutes ago, gummy said:

Land tax is an annual assessment though which currently has been reduced to 0.1% of the assessed value and I understand values below 10 million baht are currently exempt

Without knowing all details I'd hazard a guess that in KC's case there is probably no land tax applicable.  He will find out when doing the transfer.

These are the rates which came into effect in 2020 though discounts have applied and many land owners have planted fruit trees to qualify for the agricultural rate on unimproved suburban lots.  We now have an oversupply of bananas in our mooban.

 

Exemptions

The Act provides limited exemptions to owners that meet the following criteria:  

Transition Period Rates

For the first two years of tax collection under the Act commencing from January 1, 2020, the land and building tax rates will be reduced for the following land and/or building owners: 

Source: https://www.tilleke.com/insights/new-land-and-building-tax-act-thailand/

 

[King Cotton]

7 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

Not so common nowadays due to anti-corruption oversight however most people attempt to downplay the price actually paid.  Last time we did a transfer, going 50/50 with Thai vendor, she halved the contract value .... Officer gave her a sly look and reappraised the taxable value up by 50%.  Face and a few 1000 baht were all saved.

Thanks, Rob!

I like the 'anti-corruption oversight' bit . . . and that sly look, too! As TAT says, 'Thailand . . . always Amazes!'

[gummy]

2 minutes ago, King Cotton said:

Thanks, @Faz! . . . the crafty, cheating thingamajigs, for want of a much ruder term. I'll do a little maths and then maybe the mrs and Mrs Nice Guy will arrange another visit to these nice people.

Cheers!

KC

Possibly best but given your house is built on 2/3 Rai ( or did you mean 2 to 3 Rai ? ), then for the required 10,000 THB this equates to an appraised land value of  500,000 THB or 750,000 THB/Rai.  Given where the area you live from previous posts of yours I would find this incredible so suggest you do indeed request them to provide a the statement of assessed value. This should make them poo their pants and hopefully you will get a "sorry misunderstood" with a more realistic value. My guess is that a fee of 2500 would be upper bound of the true figure. Best of luck

[King Cotton]

Thanks to all the above info givers - @Faz, @gummyand @KaptainRob. That was a super helpful response, despite the sad likelihood that the 10K baht may be correctly chargeable, after all . . . boo!

Thanks again,

KC

[gummy]

51 minutes ago, King Cotton said:

Thanks to all the above info givers - @Faz, @gummyand @KaptainRob. That was a super helpful response, despite the sad likelihood that the 10K baht may be correctly chargeable, after all . . . boo!

Thanks again,

KC

Would be interested in an update when you actually pay, just for future reference.

[Benroon]

For the sake of just 10k ?? Wow that's a lot of angst and query when 10k would make it all go away ? That's how this place works we all know that. I mentally process it as a fee rather than a bribe lol.

When I got my usufruct I was told everythings fine, come back again in 3 months when some admin had been done, the chanote updated, registration etc etc etc OR they could do it while I waited there and then for 10k ! I couldn't get my money out quick enough. I thought it was a bargain to get that lifelong box ticked. Swallow the hit and get on with your life.

10k was also the price for upgrading my property to full chanote (I had the one below full chanote) - again happy to pay, and if it makes them happy, that's cool, because, and I think you should think of this, it's worth having friends in these places for a relatively small amount of money. You never know when you'll need them to beat the queues or bend the rules. As long as it's not crazy money, file it under 'admin' 

 

 

 

[oldschooler]

I cannot believe this bizarre situation nor that nobody here has pointed it out to you so far. Focusing on peanuts tax amount instead of TITLE. Looks to me as if you may have been swindled.

So you’ ve paid for the land and house but you or your wife or your thai company does not appear to legally own it, your father in law does or seller still owns it and now you seek to transfer owner name on chanote to your father in law name.

Why wasn’t the land immediately transferred to your Wife at Land Office in exchange for payment, as normal procedure ?

Chanote specifies TITLE and DEBT. YOU must hold ORIGINAL. Separate From the Land Purchase Contract.

The Land Office 10k appears normal and legit. You appear to know nothing about this process and coming over as very naive.Lawyer should have been used by you to complete this process properly.

How do you know who owns that Land and on what basis and if it is owned or indebted by Bank or Others ….. ?

Trusting others fully it appears. Talking about relationships and nice people…..This matter is serious and not anything to “sit on “. Unless you are satisfied to have simply gifted your money to seller in exchange for nothing except some unknown residency rights and / or Debts ?  Seller can legally sell that land (and house ?) to anyone they please or throw you off it anytime or borrow money against Chanote…..

What happened to your money ? Perhaps Seller and Father shared it . Receipt ? Signed COPY of what ?

Your Wife should also Own the House you built and paid for. Does She ? Strange and Undesirable Situation for you……Suggest you attempt to get the Land & House Freehold Chanote in Wife’Name Immediately and hoping you have not simply given your money away as some form of rent or leasehold. Bizarre…….